Germany on immigration

[dfunkycity]

Terrific! Somebody finally plans on making it a law that all people immigrating to their nation must assimilate, respect the countries traditions and laws especially concerning the women or else they get the boot if they refuse.

About damn time . Sounds like a reasonable law.

What's Barack waiting for?

http://worldfocus.org/blog/2009/11/2...ontracts/8548/

[Retroit]

Terrific! Somebody finally plans on making it a law that all people immigrating to their nation must assimilate, respect the countries traditions and laws especially concerning the women or else they get the boot if they refuse.

What's Barack waiting for?

Considering Barack's father was an abusive polygamist, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Diehard]

Interesting. I'm not sure how something like this could be approached from a legislative standpoint, though.
You can't force someone to "believe" in free speech or women's equality - and there are plenty of native-born Americans who don't - but the U.S. also doesn't give out a pass for breaking laws in the name of religion or culture. If you beat your wife, try to marry off your 12-year-old daughter, or kill a guy for blaspheming your god, you're going to jail, regardless of whether it was accepted where you came from.
I could picture the INS trying something like this as an outreach service, though.

[dfunkycity]

Interesting. I'm not sure how something like this could be approached from a legislative standpoint, though.
You can't force someone to "believe" in free speech or women's equality - and there are plenty of native-born Americans who don't - but the U.S. also doesn't give out a pass for breaking laws in the name of religion or culture. If you beat your wife, try to marry off your 12-year-old daughter, or kill a guy for blaspheming your god, you're going to jail, regardless of whether it was accepted where you came from.
I could picture the INS trying something like this as an outreach service, though.

I believe the point of the law is to assimilate people.
Too many western nations freely allow all others to come to their door with open arms and they try to change the laws of the land, refuse to learn the native language, set up neighborhoods which basically mirror their native lands instead of at least trying to blend in.
I dont know ow you feel but I find it pretty frustrating when I venture into an ethnic style neighborhood like a grektown,africatown,chinatown,little italy etc and come across signs, menus and people who refuse to try to blend in.

Im all for multi culture. Hell, Im a mutt my damn self but dammit, if I want some god damn spanish or greek food at least have some way to try to communicate with me and others.
At least hire someone who can speak english to help u and I both to make our lives easier and the blending in will come with ease.
Its the neighborly thing to do.

[oldredfordette]

That post was overflowing with sarcasm and irony. It's a masterpiece.

[Diehard]

Im all for multi culture. Hell, Im a mutt my damn self but dammit, if I want some god damn spanish or greek food at least have some way to try to communicate with me and others.
At least hire someone who can speak english to help u and I both to make our lives easier and the blending in will come with ease.
Its the neighborly thing to do.

It's also smart business. Where do you go in the U.S. where the workers [[not necessarily the ones in the kitchen, the ones who are supposed to deal with the public) don't speak any English? That's crazy. I totally understand the need to be bilingual in an ethnic neighborhood, but in Detroit, any business would be out of business in a week if there was no English spoken.

[dfunkycity]

It's also smart business. Where do you go in the U.S. where the workers [[not necessarily the ones in the kitchen, the ones who are supposed to deal with the public) don't speak any English? That's crazy. I totally understand the need to be bilingual in an ethnic neighborhood, but in Detroit, any business would be out of business in a week if there was no English spoken.

You'd be surprised. I have gone into a few places in Little Italy in the Bronx and had a hell of a time trying to purchase stuff. Same thing in Chinatown and largely Spanish and even Polish neighborhoods.


My parents were like that Refused to assimilate and stayed only around their own.

It was maddening to say the least. And my father was a business owner too which made it worse.

I can't imagine how much money he lost due to the fact that he refused to make an effort to blend in.

[Diehard]

Too many western nations freely allow all others to come to their door with open arms and they try to change the laws of the land, refuse to learn the native language, set up neighborhoods which basically mirror their native lands instead of at least trying to blend in.

Well, Detroit's street names are predominantly French... should I be offended? It was founded by the French 300 years ago, but you don't hear many "bonjours" around here today. Assimilation happens, just not overnight.
I don't buy that line about immigrants trying to change the laws of the land and refusing to learn the language. What laws have immigrants tried to change - other than asking for reform of immigration and citizenship policies that many see as stacked against them?
As for "refusing to learn" English - it's a tough, convoluted language and it takes years to become fluent, and even if you were to learn the proper Queen's English you still couldn't understand a lot of "real" Americans. Funny thing - they're usually the ones complaining about "them daggone furreners."

[dfunkycity]

That post was overflowing with sarcasm and irony. It's a masterpiece.

That's your opinion. Unfortunately , you are entitled to it.

I suggest leaving you lair once in a while and experience the real world.

Now that was sarcasm.

[dfunkycity]

Well, Detroit's street names are predominantly French... should I be offended? It was founded by the French 300 years ago, but you don't hear many "bonjours" around here today. Assimilation happens, just not overnight.
I don't buy that line about immigrants trying to change the laws of the land and refusing to learn the language. What laws have immigrants tried to change - other than asking for reform of immigration and citizenship policies that many see as stacked against them?
As for "refusing to learn" English - it's a tough, convoluted language and it takes years to become fluent, and even if you were to learn the proper Queen's English you still couldn't understand a lot of "real" Americans. Funny thing - they're usually the ones complaining about "them daggone furreners."

You're joking right?

Please re-read your statement and think about it.
Especially the part of "what laws have immigrants tried to change" and the "refusing to learn english" parts and think about it.

You cannot expect to come here, or Germany or any other place on this earth open a business without at least making an effort try to cater to the natives of the land in their own language.

As far as changing laws goes, the immigration debate you are speaking of has to do with "illegal aliens" which is another deep topic all by itself and illegal immigration and legal immigration are 2 different animals all together.
Well, in the UK and other European and Asian nations the muslim populace are trying to establish Shariah law which is basically just another form of government.
Now do you think thats right?
Do you think it is ok for people to come to your house and tell you that you need to live the way they want you too?
If I immigrate to another nation its because I want to be there. I want to blend in. I want to learn their language and culture and make every effort to blend in as best as i can.
Not try to take advantage and change the laws of the land and my adoptive lands way of life.
Hell, whats the point? Nevermind forget i asked because I certainly have my theories on that also.

[Diehard]

I've thought about it... care to tell me what you know that I don't? Or am I supposed to read your conservative mind?

[dfunkycity]

I've thought about it... care to tell me what you know that I don't? Or am I supposed to read your conservative mind?

Ive expanded on my opinion as best I can at midnight. Now what makes u think Im conservative ?

My aren't we presumptious. lololol


Nope definitely middle of the road to say the least. I find myself most times sitting on top of the fence never being allowed to fall onto either side because of my views.

For some, they are too conservative and others too liberal.

[Diehard]

You're joking right?

Please re-read your statement and think about it.
Especially the part of "what laws have immigrants tried to change" and the "refusing to learn english" parts and think about it.

Thought about it... what do you know that I don't? Enlighten me.

You cannot expect to come here, or Germany or any other place on this earth open a business without at least making an effort try to cater to the natives of the land in their own language.

Apparently you've seen that... or maybe you just think someone speaking with an accent is offensive. I haven't, not in Detroit or anywhere else, and there are a lot of immigrants here. Even if they're struggling in English, they're making an effort because they want my business, and we somehow manage to communicate.

As far as changing laws goes, the immigration debate you are speaking of has to do with "illegal aliens" which is another deep topic all by itself and illegal immigration and legal immigration are 2 different animals all together.

No, they're intrinsically linked. If legal immigration wasn't such an expensive, long and arduous process, the "illegals" wouldn't be illegal. My ancestors arriving at Ellis Island didn't have to deal with red tape, fees, raids and deportations.

Well, in the UK and other European and Asian nations the muslim populace are trying to establish Shariah law which is basically just another form of government.
Now do you think thats right?

Now you're being ridiculous. You're talking about Europe, and it ain't gonna happen there, not in a longshot. Where is anyone trying to establish Shariah law in the U.S.? I live next to the biggest Arab population in the nation, and nobody's stoning adulterers in Dearborn. Red herring/weak attempt at anti-Muslim fearmongering. Fail.

Do you think it is ok for people to come to your house and tell you that you need to live the way they want you too?

No, and nobody's doing that, no matter what Lou Dobbs has been pounding into your head.

If I immigrate to another nation its because I want to be there. I want to blend in. I want to learn their language and culture and make every effort to blend in as best as i can.

Well, duh.

Not try to take advantage and change the laws of the land and my adoptive lands way of life.

To take advantage of your adoptive land's laws and way of life is the whole point of immigration, Einstein. Again, I challenge you to show me where any laws have been changed in the U.S. to cater to immigrants.

Hell, whats the point? Nevermind forget i asked because I certainly have my theories on that also.

I could make a snarky comment about how perfect your English is, but... nah, too easy.

[dfunkycity]

Apparently you've seen that... or maybe you just think someone speaking with an accent is offensive. I haven't, not in Detroit or anywhere else, and there are a lot of immigrants here. Even if they're struggling in English, they're making an effort because they want my business, and we somehow manage to communicate.

Yes, I have seen it and no, accents are not offensive. Struggling means they at least are trying.

No, they're intrinsically linked. If legal immigration wasn't such an expensive, long and arduous process, the "illegals" wouldn't be illegal. My ancestors arriving at Ellis Island didn't have to deal with red tape, fees, raids and deportations.

Maybe you never looked into Ellis Isle's history and all the deportations that took place but Im sure you can easily look that up on the web.
And yes, the majority of illegals would still be illegals because
a)employers just love to take advantage of people
and
b)coming here or any other nation is a process based upon that nations laws and most illegals would rather just demand that people forget about the laws that they put in place to control immigration and give them everything on a silver platter.

Now you're being ridiculous. You're talking about Europe, and it ain't gonna happen there, not in a longshot. Where is anyone trying to establish Shariah law in the U.S.? I live next to the biggest Arab population in the nation, and nobody's stoning adulterers in Dearborn. Red herring/weak attempt at anti-Muslim fearmongering. Fail.

You obviously do not keep up with world news. I never said anyone wanted to establish sharia law here.
The UK, France, Holland, Denmark,Sweden,Spain,Austraila,Germany and a few others are constantly debating setting up a separate system for sharia.
All of this can be found on the net also from news corps.

No, and nobody's doing that, no matter what Lou Dobbs has been pounding into your head.

My goodness, the man is going to be your next POTUS. Show him some respect.

To take advantage of your adoptive land's laws and way of life is the whole point of immigration, Einstein. Again, I challenge you to show me where any laws have been changed in the U.S. to cater to immigrants.

Amnesty, the clinton years. HELLOOOOOOOO

I could make a snarky comment about how perfect your English is, but... nah, too easy.

You already have. You also basically accused me of being racist

Disliking accents? Anti-muslim?
You basically accuse the next President of being racist.
Like I told you earlier, liberals use racism and spin it to their advatage thus turning every little thing into a racial ordeal when race , religion or ethnicity actually have not a damn thing to do with this in the whole picture.

It was an admirable try but, no deal. I have nothing against muslims or accents nor anyone else.
I told u what my opinions were about people trying to change nations laws and their ways of life and what'd ya do?
Ya went ahead and got far left liberal on me just like I knew you would.

Hey, ridicule, Alinsky. Remember?

cheesy attempt

[Diehard]

Maybe you never looked into Ellis Isle's history and all the deportations that took place but Im sure you can easily look that up on the web.

Well, if you're going to throw that out there, wouldn't it be your job to go, easily, look up a few links to post here?

And yes, the majority of illegals would still be illegals because
a)employers just love to take advantage of people

Then go after those employers who take advantage of illegals; they're the bigger lawbreakers. Don't point the finger at the workers who are just trying to feed their families.

b)coming here or any other nation is a process based upon that nations laws and most illegals would rather just demand that people forget about the laws that they put in place to control immigration and give them everything on a silver platter.

Where, oh where, are illegal immigrants being handed everything on a silver platter? I want to go there. Didn't you just say employers were taking advantage of them? Which one is it?

You obviously do not keep up with world news. I never said anyone wanted to establish sharia law here.
The UK, France, Holland, Denmark,Sweden,Spain,Austraila,Germany and a few others are constantly debating setting up a separate system for sharia.
All of this can be found on the net also from news corps.

I've seen the stories, but I haven't seen any that indicate Europe is going to bend to Islamic demands. For instance, France enacted a ban on Islamic headscarves in public schools five years ago:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/islam/hijab.html
Again, YOU make the claim, YOU find it on the web and post it here. Don't tell everyone else to go look it up.

My goodness, the man is going to be your next POTUS. Show him some respect.

He is? Where did you hear this? Should I buy land in Canada now or wait until 2011?

Amensty, the clinton years. HELLOOOOOOOO

Go do a little research and back it up. HELLLOOOOO

You already have. You basically accused me of being racist

When did I do that?

Disliking accents? Anti-muslim?
You basically accuse the next President of being racist.

How do you know who the next President will be? Wow. Can you tell me tomorrow's lottery numbers too?

Like I told you earlier, liberals use racism and spin it to their advatage thus turning every little thing into a racial ordeal when race , religion or ethnicity actually have not a damn thing to do with this in the whole picture.

I don't see anything, anything in this thread to remotely support that. This is about immigration and assimilation, and I never mentioned race, other than the Arab population in Dearborn. You're the one who brought up race. Like I told you earlier, I'm not a liberal, so who/what/which thread are you talking about?

It was an admirable try but, no deal. I have nothing against muslims or accents nor anyone else.
I told u what my opinions were about people trying to change nations laws and their ways of life and what'd ya do?
Ya went ahead and got far left liberal on me just like I knew you would.

This whole business about immigrants changing laws is purely your opinion, not fact. You have yet to show where any laws have been changed to cater to immigrants.
If asking you to back up all these claims you throw out is "far-left liberal," then maybe you should try the "far-left liberal" way - don't believe everything people tell you, do a little research and try thinking for yourself.

[Diehard]

Hey, ridicule, Alinsky. Remember?

Yeah, I think I could dig this Alinsky guy. Check out this quote:
"...philosophically, I could never accept any rigid dogma or ideology, whether it's Christianity or Marxism. One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're right.' If you don't have that, if you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated. The greatest crimes in history have been perpetrated by such religious and political and racial fanatics, from the persecutions of the Inquisition on down to Communist purges and Nazi genocide."

Good stuff. Nothing about ridicule, though.

[d.mcc]

Terrific! Somebody finally plans on making it a law that all people immigrating to their nation must assimilate, respect the countries traditions and laws especially concerning the women or else they get the boot if they refuse.

About damn time . Sounds like a reasonable law.

What's Barack waiting for?

http://worldfocus.org/blog/2009/11/2...ontracts/8548/

So now you want us to take a hint from a Socialist nation??? Are you confused over your own belief of policy and political doctrines?

[elganned]

Terrific! Somebody finally plans on making it a law that all people immigrating to their nation must assimilate, respect the countries traditions and laws especially concerning the women or else they get the boot if they refuse.

About damn time . Sounds like a reasonable law.

What's Barack waiting for?

http://worldfocus.org/blog/2009/11/2...ontracts/8548/

You waiting around for Barack to do everything for you? How "liberal".
Your hands just painted on are they? Put down the crack pipe and the alarmist newspaper and pick up a pencil and write to your rep if you think it's such a great idea. Get it introduced and get Congress to vote on it.

[[God, what a whiner!)

[elganned]

You cannot expect to come here, or Germany or any other place on this earth open a business without at least making an effort try to cater to the natives of the land in their own language.

Oh, I don't know. I once went to a Polish restaurant in Hamtramck where the waiter come over to me and start speaking Polish first. The couple we were with ordered for us [[the food was excellent, BTW). That restaurant has been around for at least 50 years. Seems they've survived very well without speaking English.

Do you think it is ok for people to come to your house and tell you that you need to live the way they want you too?

Yet you find no problem with coming to someone elses' door and telling them they have to live the way you want them to. How hypocritical--but then, we've come to expect that from you.

[rb336]

Yet you find no problem with coming to someone elses' door and telling them they have to live the way you want them to. How hypocritical--but then, we've come to expect that from you.

actually, this is more like them coming to your door and you telling them the rules of the house.

ya know, there was something f*d up about the culture they came from, whether it was economic activity, whatever, that made them leave. I have no problem whatsover with requiring immigrants to speak english [[of course, english would have to be made the official language), especially when they become citizens. I have no problem with requiring that anyone who appears in court be identifiable, whether it goes against sharia law or not

[elganned]

Considering Barack's father was an abusive polygamist, I wouldn't hold my breath.

And the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, is that it?

Seen any bruises on Michelle, lately? Another wife moving into the White House, perhaps?

You do understand how absurd your comment sounds, don't you?

[dfunkycity]

Oh, I don't know. I once went to a Polish restaurant in Hamtramck where the waiter come over to me and start speaking Polish first. The couple we were with ordered for us [[the food was excellent, BTW). That restaurant has been around for at least 50 years. Seems they've survived very well without speaking English.

Yet you find no problem with coming to someone elses' door and telling them they have to live the way you want them to. How hypocritical--but then, we've come to expect that from you.

What a joke. SSome else's door my ass.

No real argument there yet chief?

[elganned]

Now how on earth do u know I ave not done that sexglanned?

Have you? If so, why are you pissing and moaning about Obama? You want him to come tie your shoes for you, too?

[elganned]

What a joke. SSome else's door my ass.

Ooh! There's a mature and articulate rebuttal. Probably works pretty well with all your second grader friends, but you'll have to do better around here.

No real argument there yet chief?

You are correct; you haven't presented any real argument yet. Wake me up when you do.

[rb336]

dfunkcity -- what is your hang up with Alinsky? you throw the name out there where it makes no sense.