Suburbanite: Don't call me a Detroiter

**buildingsofdetroit** · November-17-09, 10:24 PM

You're either on one side of the battle over whether "suburbanites can call themselves Detroiters" or "you're not a Detroiter unless you live in the city."
But here's a Howell guy who wants nothing to do with the proud title: "I'm no Detroiter."

http://www.livingstondaily.com/artic...city%20changes

Haven't seen many people say that. Regardless, he makes accurate points on the anti-business model [[while spewing something about socialism or something), but I don't think - as a man who lives out in the hinterlands and a self-avowed non-Detroiter - he really understands everything at work here.

**dtowncitylover** · November-17-09, 10:44 PM

Who wants to be part of a bandwagon? It sure looks like this guy does. No one should be proud to be part of a bandwagon.

But many suburbanites from other cities [[i.e. Chicago, NYC, LA) are just like this guy, they want nothing do with their satellite cities. But in this man's case, he will only have something to do when something is done to better the city. Frankly, he's doing nothing by giving his useless opinion. I won't consider Livingston County though part of Detroit's suburbs. If someone in Howell or Brighton works downtown [[that's crazy), they exburban. He's an exburbanite. He shouldn't even be called a suburbanite.

**kathy2trips** · November-17-09, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Who wants to be part of a bandwagon? It sure looks like this guy does. No one should be proud to be part of a bandwagon.

But many suburbanites from other cities [[i.e. Chicago, NYC, LA) are just like this guy, they want nothing do with their satellite cities. But in this man's case, he will only have something to do when something is done to better the city. Frankly, he's doing nothing by giving his useless opinion. I won't consider Livingston County though part of Detroit's suburbs. If someone in Howell or Brighton works downtown [[that's crazy), they exburban. He's an exburbanite. He shouldn't even be called a suburbanite.

Doesn't even deserve to attach himself in any way to Detroit. Sounds like part of the problem, not the solution. There's a certain amount of respect afforded to Detroiters here in Texas. There are quite a lot of us here.

Of course, in Lone Star Land, they wouldn't know Howell from "Bell and Howell", so this guy would just be a...Yankee !

**iheartthed** · November-17-09, 11:36 PM

His arguments are nonsense. Just because he disagrees with the way [[he perceives) the city government is run makes him not of it? So by that logic, people who actually live within the city limits can opt out of it too. And by extension, people who live in the state of Michigan can opt out of being Michiganders. And people who live in America can... You get the point.

That said, do many people even consider Howell part of Metro Detroit? Isn't it closer to Lansing than Detroit?

**iheartthed** · November-17-09, 11:44 PM

Oh yeah...

When the city of Detroit begins to embrace the economic models that make great American cities, perhaps then the surrounding counties that are enjoying a modicum of economic success will consider aligning themselves with Detroit.

L.O.L. What planet is he living on?

lilpup · November-17-09, 11:45 PM

Nobody who knows the area considers Howell part of Metro Detroit. It is closer to Lansing than Detroit. It's out past Brighton, further away than Ann Arbor, and most likely even out of the Census Bureau's definition of Metro Detroit.

Oh, and not in the 'tri-county' area, either. It's in Livingston County.

lilpup · November-17-09, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Oh yeah...

L.O.L. What planet is he living on?

Isn't it nice how people like this [[and including the ex-pats interviewed in NYC for CNNMoney.com) so freely express that they're ready and willing to jump back onboard once the heavy lifting gets done??

Eff them

MichMatters · November-18-09, 12:02 AM

Look from where this was written: Livingston Daily [[A.K.A Howell).

What more needs to be said? Don't worry Robert Lagana; the feeling is mutual, I assure you.

**detroitsgwenivere** · November-18-09, 12:13 AM

I'm glad to hear that Texans have respect for us. I appreciate Texans too, and I think some of us have much more in common than we realize. One of the reasons I chose to make my life in Detroit is because it affords me a certain level of freedom that I couldn't enjoy growing up in the suburbs of Metro Detroit. It might sound crazy to some, but I rather have the ability to take care of myself, defend myself if needs be, and give up this mentality that we must rely on government to babysit us. I'd rather take my chances with the dark streets, the empty buildings, the zombie homeless and the pirate hookers than have to be stared down by legions of ticket ready, trigger-happy, nazi suburb cops everyday. That's just me.

**eriedearie** · November-18-09, 12:19 AM

from Wikipedia - At its core, Metro Detroit comprises the counties of Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb. These counties are sometimes referred to informally as the Detroit Tri-County Area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Detroit

This is what I always thought.

**Diehard** · November-18-09, 12:54 AM

Oh, he's from Howell. So if he feels safe sharing his perception of Detroit as a cesspool of corruption and socialist disgustingness, then I feel safe painting Howell as a backwater, gap-toothed KKK stronghold. Cue the banjos.
What is "capitalism" out there in the Livingston County cornfields? A huge Wal-Mart and some fast-food franchises off the freeway? Is that what Detroit should be striving for?
He has a point about downtown being event-oriented and the government being inept. There's a lot of work to be done to fix this city. Who doesn't know that?
That said, some smug dude writing from way out there in Howell about how he's better than Detroit ain't helping much. My guess is he doesn't spend much time in Detroit at all - he just relays what he's heard. Dropping the "socialism" bomb repeatedly tells me where he's really coming from.

ziggyselbin · November-18-09, 06:59 AM

While I agree that the word socialism is misplaced I do not disagree entirely with his opinion.

There has been with out question corruption in many area's of public service in Detroit. It has been stated over and over, even by posters here how hard it is to do business in Detroit.

Livingston county has [[maybe not recntly) exploded in population; mostly metro Detroiters. There is a damn good chance he is from Detroit originally.

There is validity to what he writes.Predictably you all choose to ignore that.

**Lloyd** · November-18-09, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by lilpup

Isn't it nice how people like this [[and including the ex-pats interviewed in NYC for CNNMoney.com) so freely express that they're ready and willing to jump back onboard once the heavy lifting gets done??

Eff them

I'm an Ex-Pat who left Detroit in 1982. As I've stated before, I'm proud to be a Detroiter but, don't worry, there is nothing... let me repeat that... NOTHING that would compell me to move back to the city. It's bad enough that the city has disintegrated, I could take that - and do some heavy lifting - IF there was work for me in Detroit. What's worse, however, is the snarky negative attitude often displayed in this forum. I know the anonymous aspect of these boards embolden the most timid among us but there is absolutely no excuse for the type of discourse that often happens here. So, don't turn your energy to positive pursuits, continue your negative snarky ways and enjoy the Detroit or Michigan or whereever you live that you have made for yourself. For my part, I will enjoy Florida, South Carolina, Virginia, New Jersey or whereever my nomatic work pattern takes me.

MichMatters · November-18-09, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by ziggyselbin

While I agree that the word socialism is misplaced I do not disagree entirely with his opinion.

There has been with out question corruption in many area's of public service in Detroit. It has been stated over and over, even by posters here how hard it is to do business in Detroit.

Livingston county has [[maybe not recntly) exploded in population; mostly metro Detroiters. There is a damn good chance he is from Detroit originally.

There is validity to what he writes.Predictably you all choose to ignore that.

When you want to be taken seriously in writing or in speech, what you don't do is drop rhetorical bomb after rhetorical bomb, and then subsequently expect people to respond thoughtfully when you're not trying to be thoughtful, yourself.

This man had no intention of writing a thoughtful critique of Detroit. What he wanted to do was to pack as much inflammatory language into his short letter-to-the-editor as he could to illicit a negative response, and he succeeded. He doesn't give a damn about the city, and it showed.

He obviously didn't want to be taken seriously, so I see no need to entertain his critique as anything more than the dime-a-dozen pieces of crap that get published in the Metro rags and on their forums.

If anyone is trotting this out, here, looking for a positive response to that letter, they'd best shop it elsewhere. I'm sure it'd get rave reviews at St%rmfr$nt, or some teabagger site. When all they can ever muster is "socialist this and socialist that" code, you know that they don't have an argument.

**ggores** · November-18-09, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Lloyd

snarky negative attitude often displayed in this forum. I know the anonymous aspect of these boards.

.... and a blah blah blah. This internet message board, nor any opinions expressed, least to say the "truths" constantly tossed out by some lazy thinker from Livingston, I presume, mean not a single bean in the bean pile of city of detroit. The puffed up self-importance people attribute to THEIR observations and reflections becomes smashed once you hit the pavement. Selah to all Nomatic.... wanderers.

**eastsidechris** · November-18-09, 08:24 AM

Given its history, I'm happy to hear that somebody from Howell doesn't want to be refered to as a Detroiter!

And Howell is not that much closer to Detroit than Toledo is, and I don't think I've heard that city's citizens refered to as Detroiters, either.

**313WX** · November-18-09, 08:32 AM

It's funny how some idiots in Michigan refuse to realize if Detroit goes, so does the state as we know it.

**313WX** · November-18-09, 08:37 AM

And I bet this guy is just one of those socially conservative Fox News watchers who just happened to be watching Glenn Beck when he was "discussing" the segment about the money they were giving out at COBO Hall.

bartock · November-18-09, 09:15 AM

...much ado about nothing. Just someone's opinion, like the same thing that many core Detroiters and suburbanites [[and especially their politicians) have done for years. I would say that I'm not sure what a "socially conservative" person watching Fox News/Glen Beck would have do about the Cobo hall thing, since if anything that would fall under fiscal policy. Yes, I guess this person is a symptom of the problem, but that problem exists all over this region...and as many people pointed out, Howell is not even a suburb. Read this - http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publ...cle_6576.shtml
...and try not to vomit, recognizing that this isn't Joe Blow Howell, but a crook...and unfortunately, someone who has been able to manipulate many people into believing him. Much more divisive on a number of levels to a much broader audience.

**noggin** · November-18-09, 09:45 AM

You folks just do not want the truth because you cannot handle the truth. Certainly Detroit elected a city council that is higher quality that has been seen in the past. But one member was reelected because she wanted to put more union jobs on the payroll and another who's total experience was a social worker. I did not see one who wanted to represent the people who have to pay the bills through high taxes.

Calling this person a part of the KKK conspiracy is just plain stupid. He simply told you the way it is. High taxes and a inflexible large government bureaucracy creates an environment sends a message to investors that they are not wanted. That is why most business ran to the suburbs. The only people left are the ones who want that free Obama money.

**Lloyd** · November-18-09, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by ggores

.... Selah to all Nomatic.... wanderers.

Very interesting word choice, I like it very much. Do you mean "Selah" in the Hebrew liturgical sense or is this in the Raggae sense?

**rjlj** · November-18-09, 10:47 AM

Well said noggin. Denial of the anti-business environment Detroit has will continue to result in a deterioration of the city. I suspect the author from Howell is a business owner and he said nothing that was untrue.

**Detroitnerd** · November-18-09, 11:58 AM

It's important to get beyond gut reactions. Remember: Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. He is right when he says that Detroit's government is corrupt.

But I think he looks at it from too self-satisfied a point of view. What happens in places where people are poor, poorly educated, victims of institutional racism, denied the paths to prosperity? Usually, instead of electing good leaders, they are preyed upon by a kleptocracy.

Like it or not, the regional solution to social problems has been to set up barriers, even as our slums expand. To leave a city, a mall or a school to "them" and remove one's wealth and influence from the area. To bring in the bulldozers, whether it's to demolish "blight" or to build huge, moated freeways to keep "them" back.

So what do you get at the end of all that? You get a city that's increasingly short on revenue [[poor citizens, poor government), has to raise taxes [[anti-business policies), led by demagogues [[those who play race cards, etc.) who game the system [[corruption).

Now, it just seems to me that if you wanted to reverse the city of Detroit, you would merge most of the 40-odd municipalities into one system and overthrow the old regime. And you'll note that this isn't in the exurban playbook. Why? Because, for all they crow about socialism, corruption, anti-capitalist tendencies, etc., they are perfectly happy to shake their fist at the city from their exurban remove.

That's my take on it.

But in our haste to defend against this kook's disingenuousness, let's not blind ourselves to some of the very real problems he points to.

**Diehard** · November-18-09, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by noggin

You folks just do not want the truth because you cannot handle the truth. Certainly Detroit elected a city council that is higher quality that has been seen in the past. But one member was reelected because she wanted to put more union jobs on the payroll and another who's total experience was a social worker. I did not see one who wanted to represent the people who have to pay the bills through high taxes.

Calling this person a part of the KKK conspiracy is just plain stupid. He simply told you the way it is. High taxes and a inflexible large government bureaucracy creates an environment sends a message to investors that they are not wanted. That is why most business ran to the suburbs. The only people left are the ones who want that free Obama money.

No, we know the truth. We live here. We voted in the last City Council election, and most of the people on this board would agree that it didn't turn out exactly as we would have liked but it's an improvement. We're well aware of this city's problems.
We're also annoyed by smug talk from people who think that coming downtown for the auto show and maybe a casino gives them all the insight they need to tell the world what a horrible, horrible place Detroit is. It's even more annoying when they're actually proud to say they want nothing to do with the city.
The KKK comment was meant in jest, to mimic his sweeping generalization and stereotyping... I have no idea whether there's a KKK or even a Wal-Mart in Howell. How would I? I never go there.