Temporary shops a way to help Detroit retail

**David Hall** · November-11-09, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

To me, the concept seems like it's based on buzzwords generated by some unemployed MBA student.

Is there anything preventing this particular young man from writing a sound business plan, growing a customer base, establishing a chain of suppliers, and making plans to grow his business instead of cashing out as soon as humanly possible? You get the impression he's just trying to get quick cash before he goes backpacking through Europe. Have we learned nothing about trying to make a quick buck?

Not unless they make backpacks in a mid-century modern motif.

**jjaba** · November-11-09, 11:41 PM

David Hall and jeremy, great posts and thanks for the props.

Speaking of the Noble Peace Prize, [[jjaba graduated from Noble School on Fullerton BTW) our President was nominated for it after 11 days in office back in January. The committee hopes for peace and easing of world tensions. Coming in 2nd was Red Wine and in 3rd, a Barcolounger Messaging Recliner Chair.

jjaba, just thought you'd like to know. jjaba's well connected on the inside.

**d.mcc** · November-12-09, 12:09 AM

Is the Bozuki Club considered 'Pop-up Retail'?

**RickBeall** · November-12-09, 09:59 AM

Maybe they will put a pop-up Krogers downtown?

Every time you go shopping it will be like "Where's Waldo?"

Or ... do you ever have trouble finding an item in a store because they keep moving it? Well, the fun increases off the scales when they move whole store. Imagine if the whole shopping district was like this. You go into a store to buy a can of tomatoe paste, half-way through the transaction you realize you just bought a brazier.

Actually, I'm just having fun with the idea. Any retail in Detroit is good. I hope the guy success and lots of good press.

**Det_ard** · November-12-09, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

To me, the concept seems like it's based on buzzwords generated by some unemployed MBA student.

Is there anything preventing this particular young man from writing a sound business plan, growing a customer base, establishing a chain of suppliers, and making plans to grow his business instead of cashing out as soon as humanly possible? You get the impression he's just trying to get quick cash before he goes backpacking through Europe. Have we learned nothing about trying to make a quick buck?

You may get that impression but that's only because you're ignorant about this subject. If you had local knowledge you'd have a far different impression. Instead, you pontificate on matters where you clearly lack knowledge of the person, his plans, his background, entrepreneurship, retailing, and the current Detroit retail environment.

Do you remember your advice to laymen who opine on sturctural engineering matters? Take your own advice this time.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-12-09, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

You may get that impression but that's only because you're ignorant about this subject. If you had local knowledge you'd have a far different impression. Instead, you pontificate on matters where you clearly lack knowledge of the person, his plans, his background, entrepreneurship, retailing, and the current Detroit retail environment.

Do you remember your advice to laymen who opine on sturctural engineering matters? Take your own advice this time.

Please enlighten me, Doctor Generalities. I'm willing to learn if you're willing to write in specifics.

The last I checked, though, there weren't educational, experience, testing, and licensure requirements in order to start a retail business. But please, share with me the knowledge of the person, his plans, his background, entrepreneurship, retailing, and the Detroit retailing environment, so that I might understand how UNIQUE Detroit is, and how the laws of economics don't apply there.

**Det_ard** · November-12-09, 10:26 AM

I'm not willing to teach you. I just wanted you to STFU about things you don't understand.

stinkbug · November-12-09, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

To me, the concept seems like it's based on buzzwords generated by some unemployed MBA student.

Is there anything preventing this particular young man from writing a sound business plan, growing a customer base, establishing a chain of suppliers, and making plans to grow his business instead of cashing out as soon as humanly possible? You get the impression he's just trying to get quick cash before he goes backpacking through Europe. Have we learned nothing about trying to make a quick buck?

This has to be the most bizarre thread on here for a while

Is there anything preventing YOU from doing all those things?

Nothing he's doing is illegal or immoral. So it isn't the greatest thing since the invention of the printing press, but I fail to see how this will have a negative impact. How he runs his business is his own prerogative. Open your own goddamn store if you're so saavy.

And now homeboy went to the wrong high school and the house he grew up in is too big? Jesus fucking Christ, is this the standard we hold for businesspeople in this town? Oh I can't wait to hear who he's slept with - will that be the dealbreaker for you folks? Is he a renter or a homeowner? Boxers or briefs? That prick.
The dude even LIVES in the city. So what if you don't like his digs or his pedigree? Last I checked he's opening some store, not fucking your sister. So he's not the kind of dude I'd like to have a beer with - point taken. God.

So there will be one less vacant storefront for a while and people will have one more place to stop by if they're downtown. Another place for out-of-towners to visit. It can't close much faster than Zaccharo's. So it isn't a Cheesecake Factory, well, it isn't a toxic waste dump either.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-12-09, 10:44 AM

You folks who know Mr. Posch--and who [[I hope) don't think with your emotions like my buddies Det_ard and stinkbug--do you have any insight as to Mr. Posch's M.O.? I really am interested to find out, because right now, it doesn't make much sense to me. Let's just say it's not the entrepreneurial approach I would take.

I would like to learn a thing or two before the overly emotional Stasi completely jack the thread.

**rjlj** · November-12-09, 11:22 AM

His M.O. is clear to me. He is trying to ruin this city and screw everyone out of their money and take that money back to grosse pointe.

**Cooper** · November-12-09, 11:22 AM

Posch runs a high-end design store, Mezzanine, which he moved from Ann Arbor to Detroit in 2007. The store was formerly in the Merchant's Apparel Building, and now he's moving to the Buhl Building. In the meantime, he's opening Hugh as a temporary extension of his full-time, committed-to-the-city design store. Give him a break.

http://www.modeldmedia.com/features/mezza11407.aspx

http://www.modeldmedia.com/devnews/hugh090109.aspx

http://store.mezzanine-online.com/

**bailey** · November-12-09, 11:27 AM

From my causal run ins and third party introductions to him... Posch is one of the biggest Detroit boosters I've come in contact with. He moved a successful business from Ann Arbor to Detroit [[which makes Hugh his second active business in Detroit)... he is involved with more Detroit centric civic organizations than I feel like typing out... he is a huge supporter of living and building a life in Detroit...he does live in Detroit and is always trying to recruit others to move there.... and he is actively working on things like the above to make Detroit a real city.

To put it bluntly...he has done a damn site more than 99.9% of this board. He may have come from money, but at least he is putting it where his mouth is.

I mean damn, this board is fucking ridiculous. obviously some have very personal axes to grind with the guy.... and I suspect I know exactly why that is. But for all the fucking whining on here about lack of shopping or real street life in Detroit, to trash someone that is actually trying something innovative...just amazing. And hey, maybe if it's successful, it will spur others?

But I guess he could have opened an expensive grocery store and not paid rent or suppliers or contractors... he'd be hero here if he did that.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-12-09, 11:27 AM

So, is Hugh supposed to be a temporary replacement for Mezzanine while that store relocates?

PQZ · November-12-09, 01:55 PM

A number of points:

1. It is the height of hypocricy to complain that suburbanites do nothing to help the City of Detroit on one hand and then rake someone over the coals for being a suburbanite who invests in Detroit.

2. Mezzanine has been around for more than 15 years. The retail landscape in Ann Arbor changed and the store saw its rents go up exponentially as the landlord aimed for the national retail market. Mr. Posch, like any sound business owner with a solid business plan, anticipated this change and began looking for new space. He quickly settled on Detroit as the home for Mezzanine for a number of prudent, market driven reasons. He opened a store in Detroit overlooking Broadway and operated there with great success. PART of the success of this new location was migrating Mezzanine from a mixture of new furniture and home decor offerings and vintage collectible mid- century pieces to almost exclusively new product. The collectible and resale portion was not as profitbale as had been in the past.

3. The best laid plans of mice and men go awry when the economy hits unemployment and foreclosure rates that approach that of the Great Depression. Mr. Posch prudently reacted by moving his store to an appointment only showroom which allows him to trim staff costs and to take on design contracts associated with the Mezzanine brand.

Each and every move has been prudent, thoughtful and deliberate. All of which has allowed the Mezzanine brand to survive the various slings and arrows of fortune thrown at small independent retailers.

As has been show in previous posts, pop-up retail is something that has gained a lot of traction nationally and has been shown to be a catalyst for changing perceptions in struggling areas.

Retail space in Detroit has been hamstrung by landlords looking for long term stable leases at rates that are frankly unsustainable. Mr. Harrington has correctly recognized that his space will sit empty and non-productive as it has for some time if he follows the same old business models. He and Mr. Posch agreed to a specific lease term and lease rate and specific expectations about tenant upgrades.

Mr. Posch will be able to clear out left over inventory from his move away from dealing in collectible vintage pieces [[no more stoage costs). His other choice for this sort of disposition is long, painful, low profit sales off eBay or some such. Mr. Harrington will collect rent for 6 months and be left with space that has been taken beyond the whitebox status it has been in for sometime. If Mr. Posch is successful, perhaps another pop-up retailer will be inspired to locate there.

If it does, great. Harrington gets rent, Detroiters get retailers that create some excitement [Hey, before we head into Cliff Bell's lets head over to Centaur and see who's in the Hugh space!].

If another pop-up retailer doesn't, well too bad but no harm no foul. Mr. Posch unloaded his invetory, Mr. Harrington collected rent he wouldn't have otherwise.

No-one is thinking Hugh will revolutionize or save Detroit, but the old model of retail leasing wasn't working. This seems structure to be working and may inspire other landlords to be more flexible, thus enliving currently dead retail space. I would hazard a guess that a number of retail space owners, currently without leases, will be very curious to see how this plays out and whether they may wish to be a lot more flexible in their terms. There are plenty of retailers who want to be in Detroit but cannot get space as the landlords are thinking they have mall space, not urban entrepreneurial space. If Mr. Posch and Mr. Harrington move the needle on landlord attitudes they will have done a very good thing.

I am surpised that DanInSouthCarolina is so against this. He constantly rails from afar that Detroit and it citizens are dull and not forward looking. So a model that breaks the same old same old mold and brings some vitality to a portion of town that needs it is somehow stupid and flawed?

**ghettopalmetto** · November-12-09, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by PQZ

Mr. Posch will be able to clear out left over inventory from his move away from dealing in collectible vintage pieces [[no more stoage costs). His other choice for this sort of disposition is long, painful, low profit sales off eBay or some such. Mr. Harrington will collect rent for 6 months and be left with space that has been taken beyond the whitebox status it has been in for sometime. If Mr. Posch is successful, perhaps another pop-up retailer will be inspired to locate there.

I'm not against it. I just don't understand the idea behind it, and I'm trying to find out why one would go through so much effort only to set up shop for six months. Thank you for clarifying--it makes a lot more sense now.

I still don't think "pop-up" retailing is some big new fad as some would like to think. It's a model that works for seasonal businesses or those looking to clear out inventory. It's not sustainable for building a retail sector, because it doesn't have the elements of permanence and reliability. While this may serve well for Mr. Posch to unload excess inventory and perhaps refocus his product mix at Mezzanine, there is no logical jump from the business model of Hugh to a burgeoning retail district, as the article in the News implies.

PQZ, please learn to read the words that are written, not what you want to see.

**kraig** · November-12-09, 02:19 PM

This was already done on the Southwest Side. It was called the International Welcome Center.

PQZ · November-12-09, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

I'm not against it. I just don't understand the idea behind it, and I'm trying to find out why one would go through so much effort only to set up shop for six months. Thank you for clarifying--it makes a lot more sense now.

I still don't think "pop-up" retailing is some big new fad as some would like to think. It's a model that works for seasonal businesses or those looking to clear out inventory. It's not sustainable for building a retail sector, because it doesn't have the elements of permanence and reliability. While this may serve well for Mr. Posch to unload excess inventory and perhaps refocus his product mix at Mezzanine, there is no logical jump from the business model of Hugh to a burgeoning retail district, as the article in the News implies.

PQZ, please learn to read the words that are written, not what you want to see.

That makes me alugh a little because the sturm und drang here is because you do nothing but what you have accused me of.

Yes, on a very basic level, Hugh is nothing but an inventory purge.

However, as I stated in the post above, a big problem in the Detroit retail scene is that landlords have had very unrealistic expectation on who would be interested in leaseing their space, how much they can charge for their space and how long they should expect the leases to be. I know this for a fact because I worked on retail attraction and helping many of the landlords access funding that created their retail space. For a period of time I was also responsible for leasing retail space in downtown Detroit myself. I speak from a position of 10 years of experience in the downtown market.

Because you missed it the first time, let me try again:

If Hugh is successful in bringing energy to Park Ave. and if Mr. Harrington is able to lease the space to another pop-up retailer, it may well have the effect of nudging other landlords in to the pop-up retail game. Creating a year or two of vibrancy as shoppers return to a small area to see whats new and fresh can create the foot traffic and buzz that allows landlords to attract longer, more stable tenants. The article clearly talks about other landlords watching the Hugh model to see how it works. The pop-up model is not a long term sustainable strategy but it does have utility as a buzz generator / marketing strategy /short term cash flow solution option. And that is all anyone has said.

The revolution of the model is getting calcified landlords to think differently and to begin taking some risks with their spaces.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-12-09, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by PQZ

If Hugh is successful in bringing energy to Park Ave. and if Mr. Harrington is able to lease the space to another pop-up retailer, it may well have the effect of nudging other landlords in to the pop-up retail game. Creating a year or two of vibrancy as shoppers return to a small area to see whats new and fresh can create the foot traffic and buzz that allows landlords to attract longer, more stable tenants.

I have to disagree with you on this point. Energy and buzz are no replacement for cold hard cash. You can have a lot of energy and buzz, but if nobody spends money, it's all for naught. And what happens when a customer makes a trip to spend money, only to find that the store they were seeking has gone out of business? Never mind the costs of fitting out a space. Real [[i.e. permanent and sustainable) retail isn't going to establish itself until you establish a degree of population and worker density within a couple blocks walking distance.

I'm not going to argue that there isn't a landlord issue. Perhaps a drastic upping of the property tax millage on vacant spaces could influence them to not be such lazy, money-grubbing sons of bitches?

**Farrer** · November-12-09, 03:08 PM

Oooh! A ghettopalmetto bug. Stomp! Thanks, Mr. PQZ.

PQZ · November-12-09, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

I have to disagree with you on this point. Energy and buzz are no replacement for cold hard cash. You can have a lot of energy and buzz, but if nobody spends money, it's all for naught. And what happens when a customer makes a trip to spend money, only to find that the store they were seeking has gone out of business? Never mind the costs of fitting out a space. Real [[i.e. permanent and sustainable) retail isn't going to establish itself until you establish a degree of population and worker density within a couple blocks walking distance.

I'm not going to argue that there isn't a landlord issue. Perhaps a drastic upping of the property tax millage on vacant spaces could influence them to not be such lazy, money-grubbing sons of bitches?

Energy and buzz attract customers that carry....wait for it.....cold hard cash.

Absent a strong residential and workforce customer base, Hugh is targeted at the evening bar crowd and seems to be having some good success.

Part of the formula of pop-up retail is quick build out. Its not geared to be permanent installations which allows folks some freedoms to take risks in designs.

Toolbox · November-12-09, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by David Hall

Not unless they make backpacks in a mid-century modern motif.

And hiking loafers.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-12-09, 03:24 PM

I dunno. Call me traditional, but banking on "energy" and "buzz" seems very..."nightclubbish" to me. As a consumer, I'm more the type to focus on a good product at the right price in a geographically convenient location. I personally could give a shit less how "exciting" a store is. But that's just me.

I guess part of the "excitement" of pop-up retail is not knowing whether or not the place is going to be in business tomorrow. And the whole inability to return and exchange goods--that's pretty exciting too.

**bailey** · November-12-09, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

I dunno. Call me traditional, but banking on "energy" and "buzz" seems very..."nightclubbish" to me. As a consumer, I'm more the type to focus on a good product at the right price in a geographically convenient location. I personally could give a shit less how "exciting" a store is. But that's just me.

I guess part of the "excitement" of pop-up retail is not knowing whether or not the place is going to be in business tomorrow. And the whole inability to return and exchange goods--that's pretty exciting too.

Which is why any of the area's lovely malls are probably a better place for you to do your shopping.

Toolbox · November-12-09, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

I dunno. Call me traditional, but banking on "energy" and "buzz" seems very..."nightclubbish" to me. As a consumer, I'm more the type to focus on a good product at the right price in a geographically convenient.

Then open a fucking store yourself and stop bitching about it. Put up or shut up.

His store might not appeal to you but with other people it might be a big hit.

Do I shop at The Broadway or Hot Sams? No, it's not my bag but I do not begrudge the owners for selling their wares to wuilling customers.

**Det_ard** · November-12-09, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Toolbox

Then open a fucking store yourself and stop bitching about it. Put up or shut up.

His store might not appeal to you but with other people it might be a big hit.

Do I shop at The Broadway or Hot Sams? No, it's not my bag but I do not begrudge the owners for selling their wares to wuilling customers.

Don't hold your breath on that. I have a feeling we can look forward to years of "let me tell you how to do it/how not to do it" posts, directed toward others who are actively in the game, about how they should handle their commercial, residential and retail development projects. All courtesy of some cubical dweller who's nervously waiting to see if his next raise is a paltry 2.5% or a chest-thumping 3.5%.