Healthcare for all!

**Detroit Stylin** · November-07-09, 11:32 PM

For the first time in my LIFE i can actually say that I saw the goverment cometogether [[somewhat) and do something for the COMMON good....

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/

**East Detroit** · November-07-09, 11:34 PM

Only one Republican voted for it. The partisanship is disgusting.

Now on to the Senate.

Future: Doctors who pick the profession to serve rather than to hoard.

**Jimaz** · November-07-09, 11:48 PM

A more specific link: House passes health care reform bill

"This is their moment, this is our moment, to live up to the trust that the American people have placed in us," Obama told reporters in the White House rose garden. "Even when it's hard, especially when it's hard, this is our moment to deliver."

**oladub** · November-08-09, 01:06 AM

I was still wondering how we were going to pay for the underfunded medicare program and the middle class cap and trade tax. Congratulations to the insurance companies who were awarded 30-48 million more customers for their past performance.

**Sstashmoo** · November-08-09, 01:42 AM

Quote: "for the COMMON good...."

Well, let's hope so. But with the insurance companies involved, look out.

Rideron · November-08-09, 06:36 AM

If, after the House & Senate versions are reconciled, it retains the personal mandate, the people in for the biggest surprise in shortest period of time will be people 25 to 35. If they don't get healthcare as a benefit they're gonna have to individually buy it or face criminal penalties; up to 5 yrs in prison and up to $250,000 in fines..

Also, did you know that the collection of insurance premiums fee's will start immediately on passage, although your new insurance plan won't be effective until 2013. Thats how they're building up the funds, doing that first, so the deficits won't start to show up for 8 to 10 years....

**Sstashmoo** · November-08-09, 11:41 AM

What a huge crock. They have convinced so many this is something for nothing when in reality it's just higher cost insurance and mandatory. The insurance companies can fire their whole sales force now. I'll bet they had a huge party last night.

**Gistok** · November-08-09, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

What a huge crock. They have convinced so many this is something for nothing when in reality it's just higher cost insurance and mandatory. The insurance companies can fire their whole sales force now. I'll bet they had a huge party last night.

.... so who's going to register all of these new customers??? I believe that will be a very busy sales force...

Hell, they may even have to hire more sales people...

**Sstashmoo** · November-08-09, 01:25 PM

Quote: "... so who's going to register all of these new customers???"

It isn't their problem, it's your problem now. Just like how the Government had to hire all these people to file your income taxes for you.

**Bobl** · November-08-09, 01:34 PM

Amazing.
A worthy goal, health care for all, which has been approached in many other countries, is co-opted into a guaranteed customer base for the insurance companies who are responsible for the current mess!
K Street succeeds. We lose. And the republicans can say "it wasn't me!"...

More amazing: The GOP will parlay this into gaining ground in the mid term elections.

Democrats once again dropped the ball here. With absolutely no support from republicans, why did they cave in to the insurance company interests, instead of taking a stand? They should have called the GOP on their bluff, and installed a true public option.

**Ray1936** · November-08-09, 02:02 PM

One thousand nine hundred pages in this bill. Anyone who says they understand what has been passed needs a colon exam because they're full of.....well, never mind.

**East Detroit** · November-08-09, 02:04 PM

I don't think this is the final version of what we will see as law.

Senate has to craft their version, then the two must forge a joint agreement.

Now that the HOR has been tested, perhaps the Senators will show some fortitude and put some real bite into it. Worst case, they can always amend it later when people clamor for a public option. I guess that's what you need to do when the insurance company lobbyists are giving them money and favors.

ccbatson · November-08-09, 07:56 PM

It is a major malignant mess. Heaven help us if any of it becomes law. By "us" I mean all of us....liberals included.

**Papasito** · November-08-09, 08:12 PM

Healthcare for all!

No. Health Insurance for sale for all.
Mandated, with a fine if you don't take it and pay.
It's a great day in America!

ccbatson · November-08-09, 08:14 PM

We need to be asking legislators voting in favor of this bill what their plans are after they are removed from office in 2010, 2012, and so on.

**Sstashmoo** · November-08-09, 09:41 PM

Bats, I used to ask that about Bush, he was re-elected [[appointed).

**ghettopalmetto** · November-08-09, 11:29 PM

The House bill and the current version of the Senate bill differ greatly, and I'd expect a lot of changes in reconciliation before a bill comes to a final vote. With that said, as imperfect as the current versions of the bills are, it's better than what we have now. At least we will no longer pay for the uninsured to visit the ER every time they have a fever.

Premiums doubling every 10 years, anyone? No thanks.

**oladub** · November-09-09, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Premiums doubling every 10 years, anyone? No thanks.

Well then how about federal spending doubling every ten years?
2010 United States federal budget - $3.60 trillion
2000 United States federal budget - $1.8 trillion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...federal_budget

**Gistok** · November-09-09, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

We need to be asking legislators voting in favor of this bill what their plans are after they are removed from office in 2010, 2012, and so on.

What a silly question!!!

They do what they've been doing for decades... become lobbyists!

Of course that assumes the preposterous... that they'll all be voted out of office...

And if this now means that.... "pre-exisitng conditions" are no longer factored into getting health care.... no one will go bankrupt for having catastrophic health issues... and only the wealthy get additional taxes.... then the point becomes moot for most Americans that voted democratic.

**Pam** · November-09-09, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Bobl

Amazing.
A worthy goal, health care for all, which has been approached in many other countries, is co-opted into a guaranteed customer base for the insurance companies who are responsible for the current mess!
K Street succeeds. We lose. And the republicans can say "it wasn't me!"...

More amazing: The GOP will parlay this into gaining ground in the mid term elections.

Democrats once again dropped the ball here. With absolutely no support from republicans, why did they cave in to the insurance company interests, instead of taking a stand? They should have called the GOP on their bluff, and installed a true public option.

I guess appeasing the corporate donors was more important than real reform.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-09-09, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by oladub

Well then how about federal spending doubling every ten years?
2010 United States federal budget - $3.60 trillion
2000 United States federal budget - $1.8 trillion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...federal_budget

What does the federal budget have to do with health insurance premiums? Most Americans pay lower tax rates now than they did in 2000. It's quite the opposite with health insurance.

In case you didn't notice, we damn near had our entire domestic auto industry [[i.e. the few people who still MAKE STUFF) collapse because of the burdens of health care costs. I suppose you think we can have additional manufacturers collapse under this crushing burden, as we shift our economy to one of money manipulators, lawyers, and Walmart cashiers. As long as our federal government doesn't spend money because ***gosh*** that would be an investment of the people in themselves, and we can't have that now, can we?

**oladub** · November-09-09, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

What does the federal budget have to do with health insurance premiums? Most Americans pay lower tax rates now than they did in 2000. It's quite the opposite with health insurance.

In case you didn't notice, we damn near had our entire domestic auto industry [[i.e. the few people who still MAKE STUFF) collapse because of the burdens of health care costs. I suppose you think we can have additional manufacturers collapse under this crushing burden, as we shift our economy to one of money manipulators, lawyers, and Walmart cashiers. As long as our federal government doesn't spend money because ***gosh*** that would be an investment of the people in themselves, and we can't have that now, can we?

I was responding to your previous post in which you criticized a doubling in price in health care costs over the last 10 years. I pointed out that federal spending has also doubled in the last ten years. In either case, much of this is due to governmrnt created inflation but you seem to tolerate the government soaking you better than that of the health care industry. Taxes are not the same as government spending as [[taxes+debt=spending). Someone still has to pay the difference.

Your creative explanation of the demise of the auto industry collapsing just because of health care costs doesn't explain why Canadian auto factories were also shut down or why Toyota is losing money on its worldwide operations. My explanations of our economic collapse have more to do with Fed and Treasury created bubbles that always collapse and also a high level of corruption in both government and large corporations. My prediction is that as long as those things don't change, our economy will continue to decline.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-09-09, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by oladub

I was responding to your previous post in which you criticized a doubling in price in health care costs over the last 10 years. I pointed out that federal spending has also doubled in the last ten years. In either case, much of this is due to governmrnt created inflation but you seem to tolerate the government soaking you better than that of the health care industry. Taxes are not the same as government spending as [[taxes+debt=spending). Someone still has to pay the difference.

Your creative explanation of the demise of the auto industry collapsing just because of health care costs doesn't explain why Canadian auto factories were also shut down or why Toyota is losing money on its worldwide operations. My explanations of our economic collapse have more to do with Fed and Treasury created bubbles that always collapse and also a high level of corruption in both government and large corporations. My prediction is that as long as those things don't change, our economy will continue to decline.

First, show me where there's been inflation in the United States. Go on.

A lot of current government spending has to do with the necessary stimulus plan passed earlier this year [[which you ignore), and two ongoing wars, one of which was wholly unnecessary. Those two items alone will amount to $800 billion or so in FY 2010. You're attributing a temporary blip to a long-term trend. I still don't see what this has to do with health insurance premiums.

Your contention that the government is "soaking" us is simply not valid, as I pointed out that tax rates are lower now than they were in 2000. You discounted this point when it was inconvenient for you [["taxes are not the same as government spending") but used it when it was convenient for you. Which is it?

In the meantime, health insurance premiums are projected to double by 2020, and double again by 2030. Can you [[or your employer) afford that?

I suppose you'd rather create a government straw man, though, and defend to the death the right of corporations to exploit people for their own bottom lines.

ccbatson · November-09-09, 09:08 PM

Inflation has been low [[but not nonexistent), but spending and deficit spending WILL push it up sharply [[a basic economic principle).

Tax rates are also low [[thanks to GWB), but about to leap up as the Bush cuts expire, and Obama's taxes go online.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-09-09, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Inflation has been low [[but not nonexistent), but spending and deficit spending WILL push it up sharply [[a basic economic principle).

Unfortunate for your point is that deficit or no deficit, there is no danger of inflation.

Tax rates are also low [[thanks to GWB), but about to leap up as the Bush cuts expire, and Obama's taxes go online.

Thank fucking God for that. It's a bit difficult to run a nation when you starve it to death. Maybe we won't have to borrow so much Chinese cash if the wealthy are asked to contribute in proportion to the benefits they receive from our nice, stable government, strong national defense, and capitalist economy.