Ohio casinos' effect on Detroit

**buildingsofdetroit** · November-04-09, 03:54 PM

So how many millions do you 'spose Detroit and its casinos will lose now that there'll be one in Toldeo? I was really hoping Ohio voters didn't pass that ballot measure yesterday. Shucks.

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral...es_on_str.html

**ghettopalmetto** · November-04-09, 04:17 PM

I don't think the Detroit casinos will lose that much business. According to Sen. George Voinovich [[R-OH), 80 to 90 percent of the revenues of the Detroit casinos come from the surrounding counties. When the three Detroit casinos opened, revenues at Casino Windsor fell only 8 percent.

The reason? A casino located within 10 miles of a home produces a 90 percent increase in likelihood of someone becoming a problem gambler.

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/ind..._george_v.html

Maybe next year, Dan Gilbert and Penn National can introduce another referendum: to eliminate the instruction of mathematics in Ohio's public schools.

**Gistok** · November-04-09, 04:27 PM

Well it'll be a long time before the first slots and gaming tables are ready. First they have to pick casino owners/operators... and as we can tell with the Barden fiasco... the politics of that process will muck up the selection process for quite some time.

The Detroit Casinos will have about a 3 year grace period before a temporary casino is operational in Toledo, Columbus, Cincinnati and Cleveland.

And although it will affect the bottom line of the Detroit Casinos... there will still be MANY busloads of Buckeyes and Hoosers coming here. Even after the Detroit casinos opened, there were still many loyal casino patrons still going to Mt. Pleasant [[cheap bus fare) and Windsor.

Detroit casinos will have to play one-upmanship in Casino attractions and comps.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-04-09, 04:28 PM

It's a Race to the Bottom!!! BRACE YOURSELVES!

**Jimaz** · November-04-09, 04:33 PM

The Ohio casino revenues will be taxed at 33%. Does anyone know the Detroit casino tax rate?

**OriginalG313** · November-04-09, 04:37 PM

I heard on Fox2 last night hotels are not a part of the current Ohio Casino plan. I just found this Q&A online.

"WE: For me personally, something that has kept me opposed to casinos in the past is the worry that what we would get would not be what you see in Las Vegas - upscale, state of the art, glamorous venues. But you said earlier in the conversation that we would be getting something like that. The proposal for Columbus has it being planned for the Arena District, which has developed into a fairly significant entertainment district. Is it too early to say what sorts of other amenities we could expect to complement it? Convention center meeting space? Performance space?
BT: The people doing the development are probably the most successful regional casino operator in the country. It is a little different here because most of their casinos are not in urban areas. They are trying hard to provide lots of amenities. First class amenities for sureâ€¦ but not hurting the businesses that already exist. We currently have no plans for a hotel connected to the casino. The developer wants to help the existing Downtown hotels. There will be restaurants in the casino, and performance spaces, but nothing to compete with Nationwide Arena. The idea is to become complementary. In my mind the Arena District is exactly where the casino should be placed."
http://www.columbusunderground.com/q...asino-proposal

**d.mcc** · November-04-09, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

It's a Race to the Bottom!!! BRACE YOURSELVES!

Mississippi called, they said the water is nice, and there is room for about 20 million more!

**Mikeg** · November-04-09, 07:08 PM

The Ohio casino revenues will be taxed at 33%. Does anyone know the Detroit casino tax rate?

Effective Sept. 1, 2004 a new state law went into effect that increased the Detroit casino tax rates. The total tax rate for the Detroit casinos went from 18.0% to 24.0% of their adjusted revenues. The state's portion went from 8.1% to 12.1% and the city of Detroit's portion went from 9.9% to 11.9%.

Once each casino achieved their "permanent status", their total tax rate was then dropped to 19.0%, with the state getting 8.1% and Detroit getting 10.9%. [source 1, source 2, source 3]

**Jimaz** · November-04-09, 07:31 PM

Thanks, Mike. That's very interesting.

**1KielsonDrive** · November-05-09, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

It's a Race to the Bottom!!! BRACE YOURSELVES!

ghettopalmetto has it exactly right! It couldn't have been said any better, thank you.

**1KielsonDrive** · November-05-09, 12:30 AM

Was it Ross Perot who said, "do you hear that huge sucking sound" in reference to NAFTA, jobs and money going south to Mexico? Well, do you hear that huge sucking sound now? This time it's in reference to GAMBLING, jobs and money going south to Ohio. Gambling is just like the NFL, MLBB and the Insurance Companies - a legalized monopoly designed to benefit only politicians and billionaires.

**Gistok** · November-05-09, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Mikeg

Effective Sept. 1, 2004 a new state law went into effect that increased the Detroit casino tax rates. The total tax rate for the Detroit casinos went from 18.0% to 24.0% of their adjusted revenues. The state's portion went from 8.1% to 12.1% and the city of Detroit's portion went from 9.9% to 11.9%.

Once each casino achieved their "permanent status", their total tax rate was then dropped to 19.0%, with the state getting 8.1% and Detroit getting 10.9%. [source 1, source 2, source 3]

Are they at their "permanent status" yet? Does this status mean finishing final construction?

I'm wondering if MGM and MotorCity are already at 19% and Greektown is still at 24%??

**Gistok** · November-05-09, 12:36 AM

Also... Dan Gilbert was putting up cash for passing this Ohio gaming referendum. I assume he thinks he has a chance for the Cleveland casino license?

**1KielsonDrive** · November-05-09, 01:00 AM

Listen, the Illitch's are getting far richer from gaming than from sports, excluding the gift of the stadium from us taxpayers. And Gilbert will too. He's coming to the game a bit later than the Illitch's, but he knows a great thing when he sees one. If you're a high hundreds of millions aire or a billionaire, you learn where the taxpayers dollars will funnel directly in to your pockets. The next logical step is for the Illitch's and Gilbert to buy insurance companies. Now, there's a sure bet.

**davewindsor** · November-05-09, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by buildingsofdetroit

So how many millions do you 'spose Detroit and its casinos will lose now that there'll be one in Toldeo? I was really hoping Ohio voters didn't pass that ballot measure yesterday. Shucks.

www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2009/11/ohio_casino_vote_passes_on_str.html

Las Vegas has 183 casinos and 140,000 hotel rooms in the middle of a desert in the most useless city on this planet and they're still making money and there's still hotel and casino construction going on. Yet, Detroit has 3 casinos that are struggling. The problem with this area is that there's not enough casinos. This area has to think big and those casinos will create demand. Gamblers like to go where there's a lot of a competing casinos. When the State hands out 100 casino licenses in Detroit instead of a measily 3, that's when the real traffic starts flowing and you don't have to worry about other States taking away your market share.

**iheartthed** · November-05-09, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Also... Dan Gilbert was putting up cash for passing this Ohio gaming referendum. I assume he thinks he has a chance for the Cleveland casino license?

I think he was awarded the license for Cleveland and Cincinnati upon passage of the referendum.

**milesdriven** · November-05-09, 09:11 AM

I live in Toledo, and will still be patronizing the Detroit casinos. Ohio has a smoking ban, and I don't want to have to go outside for a puff when it's 5 degrees outside.

**Lowell** · November-05-09, 09:52 AM

Hopefully it will make our casinos more competitive for customers. My biggest disappointment with the casinos is that they have brought no glitz -- big name entertainment, boxing and all the fanfare one sees in Vegas. Instead we have locked down boxes with no windows or clocks.

A lot of the appeal of Vegas is that families and a non-gambler, like myself, can have fun. It is sort of like the difference between a bar that only serves drinks, chips and slim jims and one that has dining and entertainment. Since the Detroit casinos have no serious competition for hundreds of miles around they can ignore entertainment and charge exorbitant prices for their restaurants. The Windsor casino, stung by the border sealing and smoking ban, is getting the message. Hopefully the Detroit ones will too.

**jjaba** · November-05-09, 06:20 PM

devewindsor tells it like it tis when it comes to Las Vegas. Has anyone ever met a more forbidding and inhospitable piece of geography in the World. Although Lowell goes for the floor shows in exchange for the 2 hrs. condo tours, this doesn't impress anybody who knows that only morons would go from casino to casino losing at each one along the way. [[in the fukking name of 'fun'.)

jjaba, life is a crapshoot enough without going to Lost Wages. Besides jjaba was once sent to a conference with his room next door to OJ Simpson's at The Station Casino. Yikes, and jjaba wasn't even "trying to get his schitt back."

**1KielsonDrive** · November-05-09, 08:14 PM

I used to go to Las Vegas at least twice a year, may and september, or thereabouts. This was during the 70's, 80's and 90's. I never spent more than a couple hundred dollars gambling - Keno and slots. Most often I spent nothing. A few times I was even on the wagon. So the booze bills weren't too large. You can't [[couldn't?) beat Vegas for shows, entertainment, food and all round fun. I saw many superstars that are now retired or long gone : Sinatra, Martin, Ann Margaret, to name a few. Saw some great boxing matches also : Leonard v Hagler for starters. There's rock climbing in Red Rock Canyon outside Vegas and Lake Meade for boat cruises. Plenty of ghost towns to explore and off road vehicles to drive. I found Vegas way more interesting and fun than Florida. Haven't been in a few years now. It looks way over grown.

**babeeblumer** · November-05-09, 08:37 PM

Betcha Gilbert's next venture will backing a casino cruise line tripping between Detroit and Cleveland featuring Captain Kwame.

**1KielsonDrive** · November-05-09, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by babeeblumer

Betcha Gilbert's next venture will backing a casino cruise line tripping between Detroit and Cleveland featuring Captain Kwame.

Funny. Featuring a refurbished Bob Lo Boat.

**Jimaz** · November-05-09, 08:55 PM

So the booze bills weren't too large.

Drinks are free at the tables in Vegas. That would be illegal in Detroit though.

I do pretty well at craps. Now and then I have to deliberately lose a million to avoid hitting a billion. [[If you hit a billion they put you in the Hall of Fame and revert your bankroll to $5k. No fun at all.) Too bad it's only a computer simulation and not real money.

I've found that the easiest way to deliberately lose money in a casino is to keep hitting at Blackjack until you bust. Don't try to lose it all at once though because there's a risk of winning on a natural in the initial deal.

Looks like the time's approaching to lose some of this:
Attachment 3753

**babeeblumer** · November-05-09, 08:58 PM

Refurbished Bob-Lo would be great, but likely that Karmanos would want a piece of the pie, so he'd probably commission a brand spanking new ship, bigger and better than any before.

**1KielsonDrive** · November-06-09, 09:20 PM

Drinks weren't always free in the casinos in Las Vegas. More often than not, if you weren't gambling, you paid. Granted. they may have been cheap, but I was younger, hanging with my friends and drinking a lot. Excepting those times when I was on the wagon, my drinking expenses could be considerable. Thank god I occasionally stayed sober enough to make it to Red Rock Canyon or Lake Meade to do something besides be a lounge rat.