Light Rail Funding Hits Possible Snag

[digitalvision]

Of course, there's shenanigans in Washington - however, as you read on, part of the issue is yet again, since we can't cooperate as a region, we put ourselves in danger of shooting ourselves in the foot.

However, the crux of the issue THIS TIME is that some folks don't want private dollars to count as matching funds.

Excerpts of article and link below.

"Rep. James Oberstar, D-Minn., opposes language in the bill [[inserted at the behest of Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich.) that would permit the $125 million that privately funded M1 Rail Inc. will spend on a light-rail link between Detroit's Hart Plaza and New Center to be used as local matching funds required for the city's plan to extend the line from the New Center to Eight Mile Road for another estimated $300 million."

"The odds of getting federal money increase if such an authority is in place, versus a single local municipality or group, Hertel said.

“If it's a regional project, it has a much better chance of qualifying for federal dollars,� he said, noting that U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood reiterated that to him during LaHood's recent visit to Detroit. "

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...1/311029996/-1

[ghettopalmetto]

Oberstar has a point. Why should the federal government put more faith and confidence into a project than the city, region, or state?

[BShea]

Oberstar's Oct. 8 letter to the key appropriation committee members from both houses basically said the provision failed to include what amounts to Democratic Party concerns [[Buy American, labor, environmental, minority biz ownership/contracts) -- which is interesting because Levin is a Democrat.

Here is the exact provision in question:
“SEC. 166. Hereafter, the local share of the costs of the Woodward Avenue Corridor projects funded under section5309 shall include, at the option of the project sponsor, anyportion of the corridor advanced with 100 percent non-Federal funds.�

So is this a case of the provision simply needing more language that satisfies all those special interest requirements? Or is there something deeper at work here, some sort of parochial political power play? That is what I'm trying to find out.

[dcmorrison12]

I'm not concerned. We are so close to making this a reality - I only see light at the end of the tunnel. This article makes the issue seem much bigger than it truly is.

BShea - Stay away from Hertel - he's a Boob

[Russix]

This project is fuct. The most that will come out of this is the privately funded parking shuttle portion. Greed is to blame.

[dcmorrison12]

Russix,

you don't know much about the project. I'd recommend keeping your unnecessary negative comments to yourself unless they have facts to back it.

Things are looking really good for Detroit.

And don't listen to Hertel, he's a boob who wishes to be devisive and split the M-1 rail and Woodward Light Rail cooperation.

Hertel - from the very beginning has been doing his darndest to stop DDOT from completing their project

[Russix]

The fact is, we are proceeding with this completely wrong.
Where is the regional transportation authority?
Where is the dedicated public funding source?
Where is there any real regional cooperation to get this done?
How are we going to compete against other metros that have all of this for federal tax dollars?
Do you have facts that prove that the Fed is going to give money to “Joint Cooperation Project of M1Rail & DTOGS” over the MTA or the CTA?
So unless something changes with the current conditions for us, I’d like to restate my previous statement:
“This project is fuct. The most that will come out of this is the privately funded parking shuttle portion. Greed is to blame”

How to lose federal transit funding [[again)
http://www.freep.com/article/20091015/OPINION01/910150420//

[Tig3rzhark]

The fact is, we are proceeding with this completely wrong.
Where is the regional transportation authority?
Where is the dedicated public funding source?
Where is there any real regional cooperation to get this done?
How are we going to compete against other metros that have all of this for federal tax dollars?
Do you have facts that prove that the Fed is going to give money to “Joint Cooperation Project of M1Rail & DTOGS” over the MTA or the CTA?
So unless something changes with the current conditions for us, I’d like to restate my previous statement:
“This project is fuct. The most that will come out of this is the privately funded parking shuttle portion. Greed is to blame”

How to lose federal transit funding [[again)
http://www.freep.com/article/20091015/OPINION01/910150420//

I would love to be optimistic, but as a realist, I would have to agree with Russix.

The history of city-suburb relations have been poor at best, and even with the current mayor, it hasn't improved at all.

You got people in the city afraid of a "takeover" of Detroit and the forceful removal of non-whites, along with the budget cuts in transportation , by our current mayor.

Then you still have those in the suburbs that want nothing more but to keep "undesirables" out of their town. An example of this is the ability of any community to opt out of the SMART system.

Having a Kilpatrick on the Transportation subcommittee doesn't look well, either.

It is truly going to take a full change from all parts of the political spectrum in order for light rail, and a regional transit authority to succeed here.

[ghettopalmetto]

I have to agree with Russix. No matter how good the intentions, or how good the proposal, this project doesn't stand a snowball's chance in Hell of receiving federal funding unless a dedicated local source of funding for operations is in place.

[stasu1213]

I would love to be optimistic, but as a realist, I would have to agree with Russix.

The history of city-suburb relations have been poor at best, and even with the current mayor, it hasn't improved at all.

You got people in the city afraid of a "takeover" of Detroit and the forceful removal of non-whites, along with the budget cuts in transportation , by our current mayor.

Then you still have those in the suburbs that want nothing more but to keep "undesirables" out of their town. An example of this is the ability of any community to opt out of the SMART system.

Having a Kilpatrick on the Transportation subcommittee doesn't look well, either.

It is truly going to take a full change from all parts of the political spectrum in order for light rail, and a regional transit authority to succeed here.

I am telling you guys that I will believe it when I see it. Kilpatrick was getting his palms greased as far as him sitting on the board. Probably by GM to keep this project on the shelf. As long as Detroit remains a heavily union town and so=called car town, we will never see any rail going down woodward or anywhere else.

[Hypestyles]

figures, it'd take someone from Minnesota to derail this, pun intended.. I guess Olberstar is one of these blue-dog types who are just barely Democrats.. ah well..

[2blocksaway]

Things are looking really good for Detroit.

And don't listen to Hertel, he's a boob who wishes to be devisive and split the M-1 rail and Woodward Light Rail cooperation.

Hertel - from the very beginning has been doing his darndest to stop DDOT from completing their project

So, what fact do you have that back this up?

[dcmorrison12]

2blocksaway -

Since you asked. I heard it straight from the mouth of Tim - The project manager for Woodward Light Rail. Over the last two years I've known him, he's said it MULTIPLE times. [[not that's he's a boob, but that he has tried his best to thwart DDOT's efforts)

I say that Hertel is a boob. I had the "privelage" to meet the jerk. The guy wouldn't hear it when I mentioned how great the DDOT project was. He ended up yelling at me in an argument. yea... boob

[dcmorrison12]

I am telling you guys that I will believe it when I see it. Kilpatrick was getting his palms greased as far as him sitting on the board. Probably by GM to keep this project on the shelf. As long as Detroit remains a heavily union town and so=called car town, we will never see any rail going down woodward or anywhere else.

I'm not sure what you mean? LBP would be the biggest road block to rail - regional rail. LBP has been publicly, vocally and LOUDLY against mass transit. Luckily, he has been going with the flow and allowing the regional plan to progress.

Kilpatrick also was helping with the regional rail. [[there are four members who had to unanimously vote yes on each step of the regional mass transit plan. Members included CoD mayor, LBP, Ficano I believe, and the main rep from Macomb)

Kilpatrick also was a supporter of DTOGS. He had the power to thwart it - It was a Detroit project. But, he allowed it. So, I'm not sure what your comment was except for an opportunity to spread lies and bash the City you seem to loathe and make known that you loathe. Way to extend the already large hatred for the city.

[d.mcc]

A shame once again, that actual progress in the region is thwarted again.

[dcmorrison12]

d.mcc -

Nothing has been thwarted. The application is still on its way to being sent in to the FTA and plans are still moving along. Again, as I posted previously - This article is making a big deal out of something that truly ISN'T as big as Crains would like you to think.

BShea gets his info from Hertel it seems. Hertel LOVES being in the spotlight and will say things to ge that spotlight

[BShea]

d.mcc -

Nothing has been thwarted. The application is still on its way to being sent in to the FTA and plans are still moving along. Again, as I posted previously - This article is making a big deal out of something that truly ISN'T as big as Crains would like you to think.

BShea gets his info from Hertel it seems. Hertel LOVES being in the spotlight and will say things to ge that spotlight

No, I got the warning letters from Cheeks-Kilpatrick. She warned that the funding provision would be stricken without changes -- as did Oberstar.

Without that provision, DDOT faces a serious challenge raising local matching funds. That's no secret -- the city is cash-strapped.

Nowhere does the story suggest the M1 Rail portion is in jeopardy. On the other hand, it was pushed back into 2010 because of the effort to link the funding. The story also does not suggest the entire thing is going to collapse.

Both M1 and DDOT made a big deal of their new cooperative effort and working with Levin to get an arrangement made. The transportation committee chairman now says the provision is out without additional wording. I say in the story that I don't know yet if a revised provision is coming. I would hope it is.

I talked to John Hertel about the second half of the story, explaining how the Woodward line would get handled after 8 Mile Road. No one had written about that yet. Regardless if you think he's a "boob" he's the person in charge of that project.

[dcmorrison12]

Hertel may be in charge of the extension and has "championed" the regional plan - he's gone about it like a sleezy politician. You do realize he tried his best to hamper the DTOGS? He got it in his head that DDOT's plan was NEVER going to work and that M-1 Rail was the only project that would succeed. His plan thereafter was do to his best the stop DDOT and make sure M-1 Rail succeeded. Why not work to make DTOGS successful? It's the better plan logistically.

Anyhow, that disaster has been averted and DDOT has $55 million in federal bus formula funds ready to use for the project - along with $20 million from MDOT.

I'm confident this issue will be solved. It would be foolish for anyone to NOT allow this project to work.

Again, this issue isn't as big as Crains would like us to think

[BShea]

Again, this issue isn't as big as Crains would like us to think

So you're saying that without the Congressional OK on the M1 Rail/DDOT funding deal, everything will still proceed according to the current plan?

Because without it, I'm curious with a nearly bankrupt city that's already cutting DDOT services and funding will get $220 million.

[dcmorrison12]

What I am getting at - and I apoligize for our argument getting a bit heated BShea - is these types of set backs should be settled out of the spotlight.

Issues pop up, but issues can be solved. DTOGS has been around for three years! Of coure it has hit snags, but if you look around today, the plan is still here. In fact, it's just about complete.

I feel that this should be settled behind the scenes, and not put into the spotlight.

Article likes these give fodder to the cynics and worry the optimists. I say let it be OR, get a hold of a DDOT representative before you send out the article for print.

I understand you attempted to speak with Norman and unforunately it didn't work out.



Let's step back and look at how CLOSE Detroit is at getting a rail line!

Detroit has never been so close, not for 53 years - from the moment the last Street car ran it's course down Woodward. All other attempts haven't even gotten close to achieving the success that DTOGS has.

Let's also not forget that Detroit's application is incredibly strong. Not only do we have $125 million as a private local match, but we also have $55 million in federal bus formula funds to compliment the match. ALSO, MDOT generously programmed $20 million in "Woodward reconstruction" funds. This $20 million was not necessary for the local match, it's simply to strengthen the application. The less money a municipality has to ask for - the better chances they have of recieing the grant money.

Lastly - the entire New Starts process is long, strict, thorough and tiresome. Most cities do NOT get as far as Detroit has. Detorit has already beaten the odds!


I'm confident we will be riding LRT down woodward by 2014

[ASR89]

Regarding funding, once the regional authority is established, wouldn't something like a 1/2 cent - 1 cent sales tax be implimented to fund these mass transit projects? That's what a lot of other regions do. OMG, I'd going to have to pay an extra 20 cents for groceries, 3 cents for a Burger King value meal, etc. I'm going to go broke! </sarcasm>

I personally like the DTOGS plan better. Twenty years from now, I could jump on the Woodward line in Birmingham and go all the way down to New Centre just as fast as travelling by car. But wait, then I have to take Hertel's Turtle plan the rest of the way, stuck in traffic, "curb-side", 20 minutes to get downtown? Lame. That isn't mass transit. That's People Mover II.

As somewhat related news, I've been in contact with Carmine Palombo and been keeping up to date with the public updates regarding the Detroit-AA commuter rail. I know it's a different category all together [[1000 vs 22,000 riders), but that project is moving along just fine. Canadian National and Norfolk Southern & Conrail have agreed on allowing the service that WILL start next October.

[dcmorrison12]

BShea-

I've got it! The solution to our delema! Interview me and I'll enlighten you with a different perspective. A light at the end of the tunnel, but supported with facts. Give the Crain's readers something a little more.... organic, straight from the Transportation Committee Head of the WSU Student Environmental Action Leaders

[dcmorrison12]

Regarding funding, once the regional authority is established, wouldn't something like a 1/2 cent - 1 cent sales tax be implimented to fund these mass transit projects? That's what a lot of other regions do. OMG, I'd going to have to pay an extra 20 cents for groceries, 3 cents for a Burger King value meal, etc. I'm going to go broke! </sarcasm>

I personally like the DTOGS plan better. Twenty years from now, I could jump on the Woodward line in Birmingham and go all the way down to New Centre just as fast as travelling by car. But wait, then I have to take Hertel's Turtle plan the rest of the way, stuck in traffic, "curb-side", 20 minutes to get downtown? Lame. That isn't mass transit. That's People Mover II.

As somewhat related news, I've been in contact with Carmine Palombo and been keeping up to date with the public updates regarding the Detroit-AA commuter rail. I know it's a different category all together [[1000 vs 22,000 riders), but that project is moving along just fine. Canadian National and Norfolk Southern & Conrail have agreed on allowing the service that WILL start next October.

Publicized date is October 25th, 2010. It's a three year demonstration project - not permanent. The demonstration project / CRT line is going to help build the ridership numbers so that SEMCOG can re-apply for the Federal New Starts Grant. They've applied once before, but couldn't proceed due to a lack of demand / weak data.

Hopefully we'll get a permanent plan in place!

[BShea]

I feel that this should be settled behind the scenes, and not put into the spotlight.

I disagree entirely with that premise. Especially when we're told a deal is done, and then it turns out not to be at the 11th hour. There are hundreds of millions of tax dollars in play here, and I'm not comfortable letting it play out behind the scenes. The politicians, bureaucrats and functionaries need to know the public spotlight is on them.

If there are politics being played, the public should know. This is OUR money, after all.

Wouldn't you want to know a Minnesota Congressman wants a Michigan provision scrapped, and want to know what's being done to resolve the situation?

It's better for everyone when light is shed on back-room dealings.

[1KielsonDrive]

Skipper's Rule #1 is declared.