Next August 2010, your vote of NO is needed to stop freeway expansions in Detroit

[Trainman]

http://detnews.com/article/20091030/...-fuel-revenues

It is the loss of funding from the Michigan Department of Transportation that caused the loss of the large SMART buses in Livonia in November 2006

Large freeway expansions are planned to start in 2011 at a cost of $2 Billion and more with the exact same money that used to pay for both SMART and DDOT. It is not Bing that is causing the DDOT reductions but instead the loss of fuel tax revenue sharing and the lack of industry support from companies such as Wal-Mart in Livonia.

Now, is the time for you posters to take action and not after August 2010 as it is very likely that the SMART tax will pass in all three counties.

Then the bulldozers will come, more cuts in state revenue are planned and more bus service reductions unless we once again vote in higher local taxes. And more promises for federal transit grants. But it will be too late because we once again passed the SMART tax.

See more people move out of Detroit.

See Livonia and other inner ring suburbs turn into ghettos.

It’s simple to vote NO and stop the large freeways but maybe it is the large freeways most of us want?

Maybe the bus drivers in Detroit can get bulldozer driving jobs to expand northern Oakland county and other wealthy areas that can afford to pay high property taxes to pay for the once federally and state funded SMART and DDOT public bus systems.

We now have a chance to stop the fuel tax cuts but soon it will be too late if we don’t act fast and get our elected officials to fight the Michigan Department of Transportation and SEMCOG to stop urban decay and the destruction of our farmlands and wetlands with NEW large freeways.

Learn all the facts in Trainman's... save the... in DETROIT LINKS

[Gistok]

Just another Trainman weak analogy of his obsessive compulsiveness for SMART.

The link is nothing more than an opinion piece for redistribution of EXISTING highway dollars... period.

Livonia opted out of SMART of their own free will. If they turn into a ghetto because of it... that's their problem...

[Stosh]

The transit equivalent of BSX.

[tahleel]

What's wrong with expanding congested freeways? :shrug:

-Tahleel

[Trainman]

Just another Trainman weak analogy if his obsessive compulsiveness for SMART.

The link is nothing more than an opinion piece for redistribution of EXISTING highway dollars... period.

... and Livonia opted out of SMART of their own free will. If they turn into a ghetto because of it... that's their problem...

The cities of Detroit, Westland, Dearborn Heights, Farmington and Redford TWP all saw drastic cuts in pubic bus service. Did they too vote for these bus service reductions?

The Livonia vote was rigged to get the people to believe that state funding is no longer needed to pay for the large buses. This is exactly why our state has lost federal funding for mass transit.

Livonia would not have opted out if it were not for the false propagandas and hype from transit tax advocates at our city hall and state officials who refuse to fight for our city in Lansing. Yes, they have names and they know who they are.

Someday, Detroit and southeast Michigan will get decent affordable public bus and rail service because good mass transit is essential for large cities such as Detroit to attract good jobs and increase residents to pay for local taxes. But, unfortunately this will not happen soon because of people like you who won’t fight for decent industry support or federal and state funds by voting NO next August 2010 when we have the chance to do what is best for everyone.

The best choice is clearly NO when you know the real facts and not opinions. This will not harm SMART because all funding for the handicapped, low income and elderly are fully protected under federal laws for transportation funding.

Vote YES for the $2 Billion NEW freeways for Vote NO to stop this total waste of limited tax dollars that will destroy our state unless we first pay for good cost effective public bus service in our large cities and inner suburbs such as Livonia. The newspaper stories of people losing bus service without your YES vote is just simply not true.

See the section titled The Civil Rights Act of 1964. It is against the law to take away existing bus service and see the many other sections in my complete website in DETROIT LINKS.

[313WX]

What's wrong with expanding congested freeways? :shrug:

-Tahleel

When your region has a declining population AND an unemployment rate of 15 - 25%, there's a big problem with expanding the road system. I, for one, DO NOT want my taxes being wasted on useless road infrastructure [[like Grand River).

If anything, one could argue we need to decrease the width of some streets [[rather than increase them).

[Todd_Scott]

That proposal made by the Detroit News would not have any affect on MDOT freeways. It would affect how much money cities, villages, and counties get for their roads. The flaw with the Detroit News is they failed to consider how this would reward sprawl while also discouraging road diets. Under their proposal, cities like Detroit would lose money if they right-sized their roads.

[Trainman]

That proposal made by the Detroit News would not have any affect on MDOT freeways. It would affect how much money cities, villages, and counties get for their roads. The flaw with the Detroit News is they failed to consider how this would reward sprawl while also discouraging road diets. Under their proposal, cities like Detroit would lose money if they right-sized their roads.

You are right, but imagine if everyone voted NO next August 2010 to defeat the SEMCOG plans that they do not want you to know about. The links were removed from their website because of $400 Million set aside to match approved federal grants. I have them on my website to get the public to vote NO next August 2010

If the SMART tax failed, then MDOT would have to use the planned matching grants to pay for public bus service instead of expanding freeways. This would not likely stop MDOT and SEMCOG from expanding freeways but would slow them down and help stop these from ever getting built. These projects should have never been approved but they were despite strong public protests about ten years ago.

I am very serious about going after the SEMCOG plans of wasting our tax dollars of greatly expanding I-75 from 8 mile road to M-59 and expanding I-94 from three to four lanes with new service drives. These plans are very real, off the shelf and approved by the federal government for funding.

Only your vote of NO next August 2010 can or will work to stop these monster projects that southeast Michigan’s taxpayers should not be forced to pay for with more public bus service reductions and tax increases at the time of this posting.

Please vote NO to fully restore all funding to SMART or challenge my findings in my website, if you can.

[Retroit]

Trainman, could you please post a copy of that ballot proposal?

[Trainman]

Trainman, could you please post a copy of that ballot proposal?

My website in DETROIT LINKS on the DetroitYes website explains everything there is to know next August 2010 to understand exactly what your vote means.

Voting NO will not shut down SMART, or mean less funding or hurt the handicapped, low income or the elderly in any way. In addition, voting NO will not lower your property tax or cause any loss of jobs at SMART

The fact is that if this tax is defeated that the Michigan Department of Transportation will be required to pay the full cost of what your property tax does not pay including wages for transit workers and operating costs.

The majority vote of NO will mean that the $400 Million set aside for matching federal grants to build $2 Billion NEW freeway lanes will have to be used to help both DDOT and SMART which will delay the SEMCOG regional transportation plans of bulldozing down the city of Detroit which if acted upon will destroy farmlands with more Wal-Marts, cause more urban decay and higher local taxes as more people move further away from Detroit and the inner suburbs.

After August 2010, it will be too late to defeat the large monster ugly freeway expansions if the SMART tax passes because construction starts in 2011. It’s all explained in my website. It’s time to stop talking and take action to stop the federal and state cuts to our large cities like Detroit by not just voting NO next August 2010 but to support my website and make it well known and let SMART know about it.

It’s time to vote NO and say HELL NO to SEMCOG and SMART, if top transit officials do not join my fight by supporting Operation Bring Back SMART to Livonia and southeast Michigan using state CTF money.

Mass transit only works when it is convenient and easy to use compared to driving and this will never happen if the SEMCOG plans do not go back on the shelf and stay there permanently. Your NO vote is essential next August 2010 to make this happen

[Retroit]

Trainman, when I clicked on the link in your website labeled "*Click Here - Ballot Proposal Language", I was directed to the following site:

http://~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.tripod.com/Sma...otLanguage.pdf

[[For some reason, the website will not print properly. The ~~~~~ should say "save the fuel tax" without spaces between the words.)

That link provided the following message: "Sorry, but the page or the file that you're looking for is not here."

So, I will ask again: Please post a copy of the ballot proposal here on this thread.

[RO_Resident]

That proposal made by the Detroit News would not have any affect on MDOT freeways. It would affect how much money cities, villages, and counties get for their roads. The flaw with the Detroit News is they failed to consider how this would reward sprawl while also discouraging road diets. Under their proposal, cities like Detroit would lose money if they right-sized their roads.

From what I read, MDOT would be the big winner. By definition, their roads are ones that are assumed to carry a large amount of traffic. A handful of urban counties and few larger cities would also benefit from the Detroit News' proposal.

So, by my math, you have roughly 20 to 25 entities that benefit from this proposal. The problem is getting the other 590 Act 51 agencies to go along with the plan.

[DetroitDad]

When your region has a declining population AND an unemployment rate of 15 - 25%, there's a big problem with expanding the road system. I, for one, DO NOT want my taxes being wasted on useless road infrastructure [[like Grand River).

If anything, one could argue we need to decrease the width of some streets [[rather than increase them).

Amen Reverend!

Expanding our road system is the single stupidest thing we as a society could choose to do at this point and time, and the type of backwards thinking that makes young families like mine leave this state in droves.

[Trainman]

Trainman, when I clicked on the link in your website labeled "*Click Here - Ballot Proposal Language", I was directed to the following site:

http://~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.tripod.com/Sma...otLanguage.pdf

[[For some reason, the website will not print properly. The ~~~~~ should say "save the fuel tax" without spaces between the words.)

That link provided the following message: "Sorry, but the page or the file that you're looking for is not here."

So, I will ask again: Please post a copy of the ballot proposal here on this thread.

The link is fixed

Keep in mind those who support this want the public to believe that the state fuel tax for mass transit is defunct or insufficient. It is illegal to shift taxes away from the handicapped, low income and the elderly without first providing alternative funding as approved by the registered voters.

That is why the public should vote NO to stop the massive freeway expansions. It should be the truckers, wealthy mansion owners, big car owners and land owners in northern Oakland County and Wal-Mart that should pay for the $400 Million dollars that was taken away from SMART and DDOT since 1995.

I’m hell bent on stopping the massive freeways from being built and the only way I can do this is to get the majority to vote NO to defeat the SMART tax.

SEMCOG official won’t listen to me at meetings, thus I want the public to listen instead because I can fill the buses up and have done so before and I can stop the destruction of farmlands and stop urban decay but I can’t do these things unless you vote NO next August 2010 and support my cause to restore state funding for public bus service and community transit.

It will take a well funded campaign to defeat the SMART tax and there is no time to waste. My opposition is strong and well funded which includes of course SEMCOG but also MDOT, the Transportation Riders United and many others. They want you to believe that higher county taxes are needed to get federal transit grants but that is false propaganda that is easily proven to be false in my website.

I need to raise funds to go on television, radio and the newspapers quickly because I know that the majority will vote NO if they knew the truth behind this proposal.

My opponents are doing everything they can to hide, so they can be sneaky and get this tax passed before the public learns the truth. Then the bulldozers will come to Detroit in 2011 and it will be too late to fight Lansing to keep bus service without a tax on fast food or higher property taxes.

The August 2010 SMART renewal has nothing to do with improving mass transit or bus service but instead is all about money and greed without any regard for job growth or helping anyone that is honest and wants to work for a living. This tax has resulted in million of dollars in lost federal transit grants and has replaced over $32 Million per year in lost state fuel tax revenues.

Transit tax increase advocates were against the SEMCOG plans but now they support it, so they can milk the public like a bunch of cows. The reason is because they want to tax fast food which can and will raise Hundreds of Millions of Dollars every year, so they can have Trolleys on Woodward Avenue while they drive big cars and live in mansions. These people claim they are helping the poor but they are instead hurting the working poor who will be forced to pay for the rich, unless of course the SMART tax and other regressive proposals fail with a majority vote of NO

Please vote NO and get everyone you know to vote NO, NO and NO. The Large Monster Multi Billion Dollar NEW Freeways plans are to commence in 2011 and need to go back on the shelf in Detroit. It will be too late if the SMART tax passes again, thus your vote of NO is most essential.

Vote NO next August 2010 to defeat Proposal S needs to be on billboards all over Wayne, Oakland and Macomb Counties starting as soon as possible.

[Jimaz]

From yesterday's Detroit News: Nine Mile bridge is longer

MDOT extends span before I-75's anticipated widening..."The longer bridge would be needed whenever the freeway is widened from Eight Mile to M-59," [MDOT spokesman Rob Morosi] said. "It's fiscally more responsible to put in a larger bridge now rather than coming back to do it years from now."

I don't have a horse in this race. It just seemed relevant to the discussion.

[Trainman]

From yesterday's Detroit News: Nine Mile bridge is longerI don't have a horse in this race. It just seemed relevant to the discussion.

Your post is extremely relevant here, thanks for posting

The 2 Billion Freeway dollar expansions are in concrete and fully approved by the Federal Transportation Administration. The state money used to match federal grants is the exact same money that used to pay for SMART.

It’s too late to protest them but we can still defeat tax measures that support and pay for these monsters, like the SMART property tax renewal next August 2010

Your horse in this race to tell top SMART officials to support my cause to stop the I-75 expansion by writing to them or you will vote NO I make this easy to do in my website under DETROIT LINKS listed on DetroitYES

[Rideron]

Expanding Detroit freeways is like planning a new paint job for the Titanic.

[Todd_Scott]

Expanding Detroit freeways is like planning a new paint job for the Titanic.

I think expanding Detroit freeways is more like building a bigger iceberg.

[Lorax]

In a region that is losing population, why any road expansions are even considered smacks of corruption/graft.

Wonder which contracting companies have paid the most to lobby this effort?

How about fixing the hundreds of pothole choked entrance/exit ramps first?

Evergreen road in Southfield is nothing more than a series of patches upon patches. I think some stimulus monies are in line for repaving that one.

Rearranging the deck chairs on the Tiatanic, most appropriate.

[daddeeo]

Unfortunately, public transportation doesn't have a big enough lobby to rule the day.
That horse left the barn years ago.
I think people would prefer that existing roads get repaired.

[Retroit]

PROPOSAL S
WAYNE COUNTY TRANSIT AUTHORITY MILLAGE RENEWAL

If approved, this proposal shall renew the 0.59 mill levied by the Wayne County Transit Authority in 2006 and allow continued support to the Suburban Mobility Authority for Regional Transportation, serving the elderly, handicapped, and general public of Wayne County

.

Shall the tax imposed on taxable property in the Wayne County Transit Authority area which expired with the 2005 tax, be levied for four [[4) years, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, inclusive, at 0.59 mil [[59 cents per $1,000 taxable value), for the purpose of making contributions in aid of the Suburban Mobility Authority for Regional Transportation [[SMART) and its purpose of serving the elderly, handicapped and general public in the County of Wayne? It is estimated that 0.59 mill would raise approximately $13,241,383 when levied in 2006.

Yes _____________

No _____________

Trainman, I understand what you are saying: that the money raised by this millage would allow the state to use the money they formerly spent on SMART to be spent on highways. But, if this proposal [[assuming it is updated) were to fail, wouldn't they have an easy excuse to cut off funding for SMART? If it were to pass, at least we could be assured that SMART would be funded.

I think you make a good point, though: that governments often play on the voters fears and sympathies to pass Special Millages in order to free up money in the General Fund. I think this is a very deceptive practice and should be outlawed.

[Trainman]

PROPOSAL S

WAYNE COUNTY TRANSIT AUTHORITY MILLAGE RENEWAL

If approved, this proposal shall renew the 0.59 mill levied by the Wayne County Transit Authority in 2006 and allow continued support to the Suburban Mobility Authority for Regional Transportation, serving the elderly, handicapped, and general public of Wayne County

.

Shall the tax imposed on taxable property in the Wayne County Transit Authority area which expired with the 2005 tax, be levied for four [[4) years, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, inclusive, at 0.59 mil [[59 cents per $1,000 taxable value), for the purpose of making contributions in aid of the Suburban Mobility Authority for Regional Transportation [[SMART) and its purpose of serving the elderly, handicapped and general public in the County of Wayne? It is estimated that 0.59 mill would raise approximately $13,241,383 when levied in 2006.

Yes _____________

No _____________

Trainman, I understand what you are saying: that the money raised by this millage would allow the state to use the money they formerly spent on SMART to be spent on highways. But, if this proposal [[assuming it is updated) were to fail, wouldn't they have an easy excuse to cut off funding for SMART? If it were to pass, at least we could be assured that SMART would be funded.

I think you make a good point, though: that governments often play on the voters fears and sympathies to pass Special Millages in order to free up money in the General Fund. I think this is a very deceptive practice and should be outlawed.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 protects ALL funding for the handicapped, low income and the elderly as I fully explain in my detailed website to educate the public. This is what Rosa Parks and many others fought for to protect against discrimination. Your property tax and state funding will not change regardless of your vote as only the increase can legally be defeated unless alternative funding or facilities are provided first.

The November 2006 Livonia opt out is solid physical evidence of this. It was the Michigan Department of Transportation MDOT that cut the funding for the large buses and not city hall but the subsequent majority YES votes for SMART supported these cuts and will support even more state CTF cuts and large multi billion dollar freeway construction in 2011, unless you vote NO next August 2010.

The newspaper stories of SMART shutting down without your YES vote are just simply not true. Our state would be denied federal funds for not just SMART but for the I-75 freeway expansions and there would be many legitimate lawsuits if MDOT or your city hall ever tried to remove community funding from SMART, DDOT or other provider.

As ridiculous at it may seem, there are currently efforts in Lansing to remove all state CTF funds for both SMART and DDOT and replace them with new tax mechanisms which will cost Michigan’s taxpayers over $300 Million dollars per year in lost revenue sharing for existing transportation needs. The fact that the SMART 285 route number was changed is solid physical proof that the Transportation Riders United is doing nothing to stop the freeway expansions because it is illegal for transit authorities to do this and still qualify for matching federal transit grants to replace buses and other infrastructure.

My Civil Rights complaint #2006-0253 against MDOT, SEMCOG and SMART was rejected because the Federal Transit Administration claims that the loss of my bus service which I designed and implemented due to a subsequent ADA complaint against SMART for not coordinating bus schedules was not discrimination.

The problem with mass transit is primarily at the federal level because they will not protect cities like Detroit that do not have the power or resources to fight against Oakland County and other areas with money to win funding in Washington DC



So, unless we fight for our rights even more cuts will come to cities such as Detroit. The I-75 project and others are outright discrimination against the city of Detroit and the inner suburbs such as Livonia and my website proves this with many facts.

The defeat of the SMART property tax renewal next August 2010 will force MDOT to fully restore all lost funding from the state fuel tax and will delay or help stop the freeway expansions. Unfortunately, this will take a well funded campaign which I can not afford to pay for by myself but I’m most confident that this can be done should the public and registered voters of Wayne, Oakland and Macomb Counties learn the real truth about this regressive tax proposal and SEMCOG

Should the approved FTA freeways ever get built next 2011, they will cripple public mass transit and set it back at least 10 years or more because any mass transit system only works if it is convenient, easy to use and cost effective compared to driving.

August 2010 in not far off which is why my opponents are being silent. They know the truth about the SEMCOG regional transportation plans and the strong public protests that did nothing to stop their plans because it is money that talks and not citizens such as me who know that freeway expansions can and do indeed destroy inner city neighborhoods and older inner suburbs.

It’s a fact that if Detroit put in a decent mass transit system 40 years ago that vast sums of money would not have moved to northern Oakland County which is the fuel used to power the big massive plans for the big car owners who live in mansions on 10 acre lots or more.

Next August 2010, vote YES for freeways or vote NO to get state funding back for city buses. It’s your choice and not mine anymore and the Livonia opt out has nothing to do with it because of outright gross incompetence and elected officials who can’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag to protect federal or state funds for anything but big cars for themselves AND more freeway expansions.

[Retroit]

Trainman, aren't you contradicting yourself? You say that the government is required to provide these services, then you give examples [[including your very own) in which they have denied them.

If the County is required to provide these services, then how can they justify putting them up for a vote?

[Trainman]

Trainman, aren't you contradicting yourself? You say that the government is required to provide these services, then you give examples [[including your very own) in which they have denied them.

If the County is required to provide these services, then how can they justify putting them up for a vote?

Anyone who thinks that we can get a good decent mass transit system without fighting for federal, state and industry support in the form of decent paying jobs with benefits is really stupid and not very SMART

The vote next August 2010 is nothing but a charity donation to get grandma to the doctor's office using your property tax dollars with state funding being shifted to roads and only the promise of improved transportation choices and federal transit grants. If that is what you want then vote YES. It makes no difference to me because the car has won and the bus has lost.

The game is over and in 2011 the final score will be etched in concrete. Unless YOU support my website of Trainmans's Save... in DETROIT LINKS linked in DetroitYES

[Retroit]

The way I see it is if this proposal doesn't pass, they will cut the funding for SMART and will blame it on those who voted NO.

...and expand the freeways anyway.