Detroit is a business?"

[stasu1213]

Many people admire Dave Bing for running this city like a "Business". Does anyone think that Detroit should be ran like one?

[ordinary]

In some repects, yes. It's not all about profit but 'business' needs to be taken care of. Things need to be repaired and maintained, bills have to be paid etcetra.

[ndavies]

Absolutely Yes, every Municipal function is a business and should be run like one. The business of government is to provide services to us, it's customers. We the people should be deciding what those services are by voting. Every government should be trying to provide the services the voters chose as efficiently as possible. We the tax payers are the shareholders, customers and financiers of the governments business. We must demand all our money and resources are used wisely.

[467riverfix]

Damn right it should be. Look at the mess the supposed 'altruistic' public sector has got the city into. Out of control wages, feather-bedding, flabby, worse or non-existent, service delivery. Best thing for the D would probably be to contract out everything. The city needs an enema, and how.

[Detroitnerd]

Um, the business of business is making profits, not providing services or goods. So, no, business should not be the model of government.

[Locke09]

Um, the business of business is making profits, not providing services or goods. So, no, business should not be the model of government.

That was succinct and correct Detroitnerd.

Each can borrow from the other: businesses can strive to be good "corporate citizens" and government can adopt some of the practices of business that can make it more efficient and effective. But they serve two different and often opposing purposes.

Furthermore, there are rules associated with using the public's money, that businesses don't have to concern themselves with: equal access, open and transparent processes, etc.

Functions should be privatized only if they truly result in savings. Most people who work for the city can identify real tangible examples of current situations where contractors are costing significantly more than city personnel for the same job. And it gets worse when you hire someone from a company, that is subcontracting to another company. Each level of companies has to get its own profit which results in high overhead added on to the already higher hourly rate being paid to the contractor.

So those blanket, "Privatize everything" statements don't make much sense to me. Privatize what makes sense to privatize. And the savings should be substantial, because if they are minimal, then you need to factor in the real consequences of putting your employees out of work. Most of them are still also your citizens, helping to keep some semblance of stability in your neighborhoods.

Like I wouldn't say privatize everything, I also wouldn't say privatize nothing. Let the dollars speak for themselves.

[EastSider]

Um, the business of business is making profits, not providing services or goods. So, no, business should not be the model of government.

Um, how do the profits get generated? By providing goods and services better than competitors. The 'word' better is defined by the consumer, so it can refer to price, value or whatever each consumer looks for. Businesses are not able to just call up someone and demand money. For that, they need government.

In a municipal model, the 'consumers' are the resident and businesses located in the jurisdiction.

If a store, say Joe's Emporium, does not satisfy their customers, the customers no longer shop at Joe's. Maybe Frank's up the street is cleaner or has lower prices. Joe either keeps doing things the same way and eventually goes out of business, or he changes his business practices to gain new customers.

For a city, people and businesses move out, and it's up to the city to either change or go bankrupt.

[Detroitnerd]

Um, how do the profits get generated? By providing goods and services better than competitors.

That is the middle school fable, anyway. Profits are generated by skimming off the top of other people's labor.

And marketing and advertising can help you sell an inferior product, or a harmful one.

Externalizing costs is another thing businesses do to protect their all-important profits, and that often harms people in a way a government would find indefensible.

Perhaps most importantly, businesses are closed models, resistant to democratic processes, another problem with applying the model to government.

For a city, people and businesses move out, and it's up to the city to either change or go bankrupt.

Welp, there goes regionalism, out the window.

[Locke09]

Um, how do the profits get generated? By providing goods and services better than competitors. The 'word' better is defined by the consumer, so it can refer to price, value or whatever each consumer looks for. Businesses are not able to just call up someone and demand money. For that, they need government.

In a municipal model, the 'consumers' are the resident and businesses located in the jurisdiction.

If a store, say Joe's Emporium, does not satisfy their customers, the customers no longer shop at Joe's. Maybe Frank's up the street is cleaner or has lower prices. Joe either keeps doing things the same way and eventually goes out of business, or he changes his business practices to gain new customers.

For a city, people and businesses move out, and it's up to the city to either change or go bankrupt.

I was going to agree [[and I still do in part), but then I realized that people are not going to abandon any governmental entity [[city, state or country) as quickly as they will a business. People consider themselves to have more invested in their city, state or country. My life is so tangled up in this city that I love that I have probably stayed far longer than is "rational". I want it to thrive and I have made sacrifices to try and help it thrive. I'm not doing that for any business. I actually grieve over its deterioration. I'm not doing that for any business.

I'm just saying that government serves a different purpose. It cannot be run just like a business, or it won't meet the very needs [[services if you will) that citizens [[some of whom aren't paying a penny for services) are expecting. If a candidate doesn't understand the special challenges of running a city, as opposed to a business, their naivete will eventually cause more harm than good.

Why isn't it sufficient to say that government should strive to be as efficient and effective as possible. That is not solely the realm of business.

[Detroitnerd]

Why isn't it sufficient to say that government should strive to be as efficient and effective as possible. That is not solely the realm of business.

Good question, Locke. I would guess that it helps hammer home the old party line of "Government bad; business good."

But we all know that it's more complicated than that.

[iheartthed]

Detroit is a city and it should be run like a city, not a business.

[artds]

It absolutely should be run like a business.

The problem is, many Detroiters view the primary function of government as being to provide Detroiters with government jobs that are paid for through taxation of businesses.

[ndavies]

Detroit is a city and it should be run like a city, not a business.

The best cities in the world are run like businesses.

[Det_ard]

Hey, I like it the way it is now. It's like a big slush fund for crooked pols and a big jobs program for incompetent workers. Why would we want to change that? It's worked really well for us.

[iheartthed]

The best cities in the world are run like businesses.

Which ones?

[ziggyselbin]

Detroit is a city and it should be run like a city, not a business.

How about as a city with some business like practices?

[ndavies]

Which ones?

All of them because they are businesses.

[gazhekwe]

What is the difference between running a city and running a business?

Each one has a purpose.
---The purpose of a business is to generate profits [[by making and/or selling products and/or services) and it has to spend a certain amount to do that. Earnings are divided between maintaining and improving the business and paying out to shareholders.
----The city's purpose is to provide services to residents and maintain itself using funds gained through taxes.

The source of the money is different. The purpose is essentially the same. Generate income, spend responsibly to achieve the purpose. Money to spend, whether tax generated or profit generated, must be equal to the task at hand, requiring constant evaluation and balancing of revenue versus product or service.

[iheartthed]

How about as a city with some business like practices?

It depends on what business like practices. As has been pointed out above, the purpose of a business is to turn a profit. That isn't the purpose of a city. If you want to say that a city should be well managed... Well, that isn't strictly a trait of business. I can point out many businesses that are poorly managed and many not-for-profit seeking entities that are well managed.

[ziggyselbin]

It depends on what business like practices. As has been pointed out above, the purpose of a business is to turn a profit. That isn't the purpose of a city. If you want to say that a city should be well managed... Well, that isn't strictly a trait of business. I can point out many businesses that are poorly managed and many not-for-profit seeking entities that are well managed.

Well stated..

[iheartthed]

All of them because they are businesses.

Well maybe you should notify every business school on the face of the planet that they are missing an urban planning concentration.

[Locke09]

As I've said, cities can adopt some business practices, and businesses can try to be good corporate citizens. But no city, however well-run, is a business. And cities and businesses have distinctly different purposes, as a few here have already noted, even though they both should try to fulfill their purposes as effectively as possible and within the constraints of their budgets.

My family is not a business, but we stay within our budget and look for opportunites to meet our family needs [[and even many of our desires) as inexpensively as possible, and even generate some profit [[or savings) that can be set aside to "build" the next generation.We adopt some business-like practices, but we are not a business and never will be. And yes, children sometimes want to leave a family they feel doesn't meet their needs and go to another family. Sometimes they actually do that. But the family is not a business.

[EastSider]

That is the middle school fable, anyway. Profits are generated by skimming off the top of other people's labor.

And marketing and advertising can help you sell an inferior product, or a harmful one.

Externalizing costs is another thing businesses do to protect their all-important profits, and that often harms people in a way a government would find indefensible.

Perhaps most importantly, businesses are closed models, resistant to democratic processes, another problem with applying the model to government.

Oh, bullshit. Profits are not proof of "exploitation." Put away your tired Marxist cliches and join the grown-ups.

Businesses are not closed models, and they certainly are not resistant to democratic processes. Can Ford force you to buy one of their cars? Can Best Buy require you to take home a new computer? Did Harmony House ever make it mandatory for people to buy the new album by Elvis Costello?

No. Those are all voluntary exchanges made between two consenting parties. If people don't like some policy at Wal-mart, no one stops them from shopping at Meijer or someplace else.

Bankruptcy is the ultimate "democratic" potential facing every business concern, as long as the free market is allowed to work. Politics can get injected, and some companies may be deemed "too big to fail" but that's a bullshit, meaningless designation.

[Locke09]

Hey, I like it the way it is now. It's like a big slush fund for crooked pols and a big jobs program for incompetent workers. Why would we want to change that? It's worked really well for us.

The events of the last ten months have clearly shown us the tremendous financial loss that can be realized when you have crooked businessmen, crooked financial investors, incompetent business leaders, greedy corporations [[especially banks) etc. Government has not cornered the market on corruption and incompetence.

Many of you may be too young to remember when you could get replacement lightbulbs for free from DTE [[then Detroit Edison). But a business person sued because it kept him from selling his bulbs for a profit, and the courts decided that Edison could no longer give away lightbulbs. Mind you, this was a drug store owner, so lightbulbs were only one of the items he sold. Spare me some of the "practices" of business.

[Stosh]

And above all other considerations, consumers [[citizens) are turning to other businesses [[cities) when they are leaving Detroit for other cities.