What Ilitch is sitting on

[buildingsofdetroit]

Has anyone ever compiled a list of exactly which abandoned/undeveloped property Ilitch owns/has owned until recently? [[Post-Madison-Lenox demo but including the recent taxpayer-funded demos.)

What I've got so far:
Adams Theatre [[demo'd by Ilitch)
Fine Arts Building [[demo'd by Ilitch)
Parking garage by Hotel Charlevoix [[demo'd by Ilitch)
Chin Tiki [[D.B.I.)
Moose Lodge
Detroit Life Building
United Artists Theatre
Building at Grand River and Columbia [[D.B.I.)
Building at Cass and Columbia [[D.B.I.)
Women's City Club

Seems like he's divested himself of most everything that hasn't already been saved. I know I'm missing some, though.

[buildingsofdetroit]

Forgot about the Hotel Vermont, though that came down two years ago, I think.

[rjlj]

I thought Forbes owned the Woman's City Club?

[buildingsofdetroit]

I thought Forbes owned the Woman's City Club?

You're right. My mistake.

[gnome]

I thought the Detroit Police Department owned the Woman's City Club.

[Jimaz]

Woe is me. I thought this was going to be a joke about someone's ass.

[JLeurck]

Does Illitch own the G.A.R. Building?

[detourdetroit]

while this is an interesting line of inquiry, i'm personally more curious about what ilitch holdings has its mitts on NORTH of the freeway. in my mind, resolving the "NEW OLYMPIA" issue with as little historic fabric lost is one of the more important planning decisions that need to happen downtown. i hope it happens south of the freeway so that we can begin to meaningfully take steps toward a masterplan for an integrated and mixed use lower corridor that is more dynamic and better quality than brush park.

[buildingsofdetroit]

Does Illitch own the G.A.R. Building?

No. He lost the rights by sitting on it too long. For the story about who's trying to save it now: http://buildingsofdetroit.com/places/gar

[buildingsofdetroit]

while this is an interesting line of inquiry, i'm personally more curious about what ilitch holdings has its mitts on NORTH of the freeway. in my mind, resolving the "NEW OLYMPIA" issue with as little historic fabric lost is one of the more important planning decisions that need to happen downtown. i hope it happens south of the freeway so that we can begin to meaningfully take steps toward a masterplan for an integrated and mixed use lower corridor that is more dynamic and better quality than brush park.

Detour, I love you, man, but we're going to have to disagree on this. The Eddystone and Park Avenue cannot be saved. Is it physically feasible? Sure. But it's just not going to happen between the economy, the real estate market, the horrendous state of the neighborhood around them ... This is a case where it would benefit the city as a whole if these two National Register sites are razed and the arena goes there. It would help keep the Masonic afloat, help gentrify Cass Park and the area on the west side of Cass, possibly spark development interest in old Cass Tech and perhaps spark renewed interest in saving Brush Park landmarks. Would it do ALL of those things? Perhaps not. But I believe it could do some of those things. Building west of Foxtown makes little sense to me, but then again, building east of the Fox didn't make a lot of sense to me at the time, either.

[Lorax]

North of 75 is where Ilitch will build the new Olympia Stadium.

Look at the vast vacancy between there and the Masonic Temple. He stands a better chance of making a sweeping change in that area demolishing the Eddystone, Cass Tech is coming down too. Plus there's Woodward frontage which is largely vacant. The Artisan Ballroom is the only notable building still standing there.

With the Masonic Temple and Kresge Administration building anchoring the one corner of the rectangle, and the Stadium the opposite corner.

Other parcels recently demolished such as Chin Tiki and such will be parking lots.

[buildingsofdetroit]

North of 75 is where Ilitch will build the new Olympia Stadium.

Look at the vast vacancy between there and the Masonic Temple. He stands a better chance of making a sweeping change in that area demolishing the Eddystone, Cass Tech is coming down too. Plus there's Woodward frontage which is largely vacant. The Artisan Ballroom is the only notable building still standing there.

With the Masonic Temple and Kresge Administration building anchoring the one corner of the rectangle, and the Stadium the opposite corner.

Other parcels recently demolished such as Chin Tiki and such will be parking lots.

D'accord, Monseiur Lorax.

[Gistok]

Every year there's a thread that mucks up the confusing names and ownerships of the Park Ave. buildings... the Women's City Club and the Colony Club. The Forbes owned Colony Club has the beautiful 2 story Louis XV style ballroom that is often used for weddings and the like.

As for the Midtown Buildings... I hope Ilitch gets the last 6 parcels he needs to build in the west Foxtown area instead. Midtown doesn't need to lose any more of its' density [[high rises).

There was a DYES poster named Venerable who hasn't been seen here in a while. There are at least 2 old threads [[1-2 years old) where he posted every parcel [[and address) that Ilitch Holdings owned in the Foxtown/Midtown area, under more than one alias.

[reddog289]

While on the BuildingsOf Detroit site I had the same question. Thought of it also viewing Lowells Autumn tour.

[bartock]

While on the BuildingsOf Detroit site I had the same question. Thought of it also viewing Lowells Autumn tour.

This may be off topic a bit, but I've wondered why Illitch wouldn't just put an "experiment" on one of his properties...a well lit 7-11/gas station combo, just to see if it can stick. Could it be any more risk than putting $7-18 million dollars on one of his Tiger players [[take your pick) for a year? Even with the astronomical insurance costs I doubt he'd be risking more than a few million dollars. Easy for me to say, not my money, and probably been discussed before.

[Lorax]

Buying buildings and vacant land west of the Fox Theatre is, in my opinion, just a move to secure cheap land near his other developments.

I still contend Olympia will be built north of 75, and specifically within view of 75 and it's nearby exits/entrances.

When it was announced that he had secured the Masonic Temple, this convinced me that this was the place most likely to house a new stadium.

Also, the fact that the Fox and Comerica are on Woodward lends creedence to this theory, since economically it makes more sense to focus on Woodward frontage as a main entrance. Why not? It's Detroit's main street and land is cheap. What is great about this idea, is with the existing Masonic Temple and Kresge Administration bldg anchoring a revitalized Cass Park creates a much improved campus environment for further development of restaurants and stores.

As well, any service areas/entrances for the stadium can face the freeway rather than take away from new development that might object to facing the rear of the stadium.

I would hope, too, that the old Americana? Hotel next door to the Masonic could be preserved since it's massing compliments the Temple and park frontage.

What would be an added plus would be to preserve the Artisan Ballroom and old Greenfield's Restaurant next door, and add to the street frontage additional storefronts as a new facade for the stadium. Make these storefronts the new face of the stadium, with opened up rear entrances that would line an indoor shopping concourse, all attched to the stadium.

Since hockey is played in a domed environement, I could envision an enclosed shopping area fronting Woodward that would revitalize that part of Woodward, and would access Cass Park on the rear as well, and hopefully additional storefronts facing the park.

Turn the Masonic into a hotel joined to the Americana next door and you'd have a super nucleus of urbanity marching up Woodward Avenue. And while we're at it, convert the old Cass Tech into a parking garage by retaining the facades only. It could double as parking for the school as well.

[Novine]

http://www.theverifiabletruth.com/

[esp1986]

North of 75 is where Ilitch will build the new Olympia Stadium.

Look at the vast vacancy between there and the Masonic Temple. He stands a better chance of making a sweeping change in that area demolishing the Eddystone, Cass Tech is coming down too. Plus there's Woodward frontage which is largely vacant. The Artisan Ballroom is the only notable building still standing there.

With the Masonic Temple and Kresge Administration building anchoring the one corner of the rectangle, and the Stadium the opposite corner.

Other parcels recently demolished such as Chin Tiki and such will be parking lots.

He is unlikely to build the arena north of I-75. A very reliable source told me a couple years ago that he wants to keep it on the south side to help in the continued redevelopment of the Foxtown/Grand Circus Park area. It is not a coincidence that a number of buildings behind the Fox have been renovated over the past couple years. He is still trying to aquire a few pieces of land integral to any potential project though. The source also told me that the arena was to coincide with a redevelopment of the Stadler and UA/Tuller Blocks on Grand Circus Park as a bigger entertainment project, but then the economy went south.

Some Canadian on here said he thinks that there will be an arena connected to Motor City Casino. This is largely false, as this would link Mike's name with the casino, something that is heavily frowned upon by Major League Baseball. The Ilitches remain heavily dedicated to improving their immediate neighborhood surrounding the Fox, per a quote from Ilitch communications officer Karen Cullen, [[I will try and find the quote) reaffirming my source's info.

[detourdetroit]

i've thought a while on this...not that it makes much difference! but after going back and forth across the freeway in terms of siting for NEW OLYMPIA, i've come down on the side of south of the freeway...but i'll concede there is a bit of "six to half a dozen" distinctions between the two.

my reasoning for south of the freeway is twofold:

1) now that we've gone down the road of stadium district [[which i didn't think was a good concept at its onset), we've now committed so much, it would be nice to concentrate this final piece into the district, fill in wowoodward and make it truly link with the other entertainment facilities nearby. adjacencies and parking facilities should be maximized as shared resources. suburbans could walk from site to site to bar more easily and mitigate somewhat the need for more of the evil parking. site prep and demolition money could be used to help integrate or more interestingly move moose to park avenue to help fill in the missing teeth there. maybe finally that's where house of blues could locate or some similar venture. having a jazz recital hall would be a great compliment to the burgeoning district that is anchored by cliff bells and towne pump. a tighter site could provide more interesting architecture, as would an OLYMPIA-appropriate Grand River frontage.

2) having NEW OLYMPIA south finally provides the real impetus for holistic master planning of south corridor on the north. this area i believe should be a continuation of the development that is marching slowly south from WSU/Med Center and should service a truly urban population. foundations are clamoring to develop the institutional will for a "15/15" plan - 15,000 college educated by 2015 in the midtown area. brush park should absoultely be finished first as it has been through the infrastructural remediation that needs to occur. while that development is marching through phases II and beyond, lower cooridor should be reimagined. yes, many of the nso's and flop houses need to be moved or consolidated and, yes, there probably needs to be some strategic but "surgical" demolition. phasing and infrastructure improvements can then begin. as we know, since most five star demos are political and not because of structural deficits, having a well grounded population-driven master plan framing development, i'd argue that detroit would be better served to hold on to as much of the quality architecture in that area it can [[including cass, eddystone, etc), to serve as anchoring elements and areas to help frame phased growth. even though it was frought with problems, i'm much happier with carlton, etc. in place and habitable after it was left for dead on the other side of woodward to help provide some context. as much respect i have for gleiberman and friends take on phase I, the product, frankly kinda sucks and i would have much preferred using carmel hall as urban basis for the area. now i realize that there are dire economic realities we're facing, but if we recast and align multiple resources on midtown [[and the unrealized potential of residential opportunities downtown) as the one place in state where we're going to actually create a viable, urban, walkable city based on mixed use principles and capture a segment of the in-place workforce, that's the way to go imho.

...a third option...consider for a moment to accommodate NEW OLYMPIA...and a true suture of the wound...would be decking over one of the freeways. here we'd destroy no fabric and offer a very intriguing and HIGLY VISIBLE opportunity for the ilitch clan. imagine a Grand River appropriate frontage next to motor city casino on the lodge, or on Woodward next to the fox.

all just the fevered mumblings of a detoured detroiter...

[Gistok]

Detourdetroit... I agree with your ideas... as much as there is lots of empty space between the Fisher Fwy. and the Eddystone... it is not all owned by Ilitch Holdings. I'm not sure that even a majority of the land area is owned by them... but it is mostly empty land.

However in the west Foxtown area the majority of the land between [[just west of) Park Ave. and Grand River Ave., between Montcalm and W. Adams is Ilitch owned. Last I saw... there were 7 parcels that prevented an arena footprint... the infamous 3 Alibri heirs parcels, 3 other parcels [[owned by 1 person) along the north side of Adams [[between Cass & Clifford I believe), and the CC Bar.

If these cannot be obtained, then perhaps the footprint can move slightly farther west... where Cass Ave. becomes a "roundabout" of sorts [[a better term would be one way perimeter drive) around the arena footprint in the middle of Cass. Detourdetroit, I also was thinking about how the Moose Lodge could be moved [[the Gem/Century way) as infill over to Park Ave.

I'm not sure building the arena next to MotorCity Casino is a good idea. There's the issue of free [[casino patrons) versus paid [[arena patrons) parking. And then there's the after game casino rush. I'm not sure how that sudden surge in casino attendance can be handled by a 3 shift 24/7 operation. It could become a hindrance and keep regular patrons away on busy game nights.

But I do think that Ilitch is going to be playing different sites against each other, as possible leverage against holdout sellers.

And I would not want to be a holdout seller if the arena footprint had to be moved slightly in that area to accommodate the holdouts... I could see them being purposefully boxed in by parking structures.

[Lorax]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there really enough room south of 75 to support a new arena and the attendant parking? Assuming the Grand Circus Park frontage is one day filled in with buildings matching the park wall of buildings currently there?

I could see it if the UA and the Michigan were removed, and possibly the GAR, but the parcels seem too disjointed to really be of much use except for parking or "future development."

Just an armchair point of view here, but I still think the Wooward frontage is key, as it has made Comerica Park much more visible and easily identifiable, whereas Ford Field is largely unseen and to my thinking is sort of there just looming in the background.

This is what I believe would happen with a new Olympia sited south of 75. There is no way to really keep an open sweep of sight lines, and may have an underwhelming impact when tucked into a largely disjointed, isolated area.

Building it where the old Motown/Donovan building was, as I mentioned in my previous post, set back on this monstrous piece of vacant property would tie it in to Cass Park, give it a sweeping presence on Woodward, and give people a reason to cross over 75 if there are attendant restaurants and shops as part of the deal. Parking could easily be integrated, and as I mentioned, converting old Cass Tech into a parking structure, preserving the best part of the building, it's exterior.

Just a few thoughts.

[esp1986]

Well first off, Ilitch does not own the land where the Donovan building used to sit, as of last time I heard. Second, Parking was an issue when Comerica and Ford Field both first opened, since then, it has been fine. A large parking structure would be built bordering the freeway to support the arena. The arena, as the old Olympia did, could very well face Grand River, next to the GAR.

It is no coincidence that, prior to the economy collapsing, the Ilitches were planning on renovating the Detroit Life Building, tearing down the Adams Theatre and the Fine Arts Building, saving the facade.

They were planning on announcing the new arena rather soon, but now the economy has put a damper on things, and the Fine Arts Facade hangs in the balance, and had they made their announcement by now, the Fine Arts Facade may not face the uncertain future that it now does, as they were expecting some interest in developing behind the facade, but without a certain arena, there is no interest.

The Ilitches are also thought to be cleaning up the United Artists Theatre, possibly preparing it for a renovation. Ilitch would have to own land north of I-75 for that to be a reality, and while he may own some, he is far more concerned with the area immediately neighboring Foxtown. I thought it was crazy too, but after I had seen some drawings of what it could be like with a 'New Olympia' off of Grand River or Adams, I was no longer skeptical.

All of the signs point to the arena being in the GCP area, whether off of Grand River or off of Adams, we will see what happens.

[Lorax]

If the Ilitches don't own the property north of 75, how much could it possibly cost? Assembling parcels in Detroit, especially for a billionaire is the least of his problems I would think.

Does anyone really think there isn't a single vacant parcel of land in Detroit that cannot be bought?

You mention placing the stadium next to the GAR- I still don't see how it's a good fit- perhaps hockey stadiums are smaller than I thought. And I don't think the Ilitches own the GAR- not yet anyway!

This is all interesting speculation, but speculation at best. Until they decide to announce, it's all hypothetical.

I still think the Masonic Temple must play into this somehow- why else would the Ilitches care to take on this monster? Unless it's to control the stage there, and keep it from competing with the Fox.

[detourdetroit]

lorax, you answered both of your own questions in terms of arena size and ilitch intent.

[3WC]

Lorax, you may be correct that Ilitch is buying land west of the Fox in order to pick up cheap land close to his other businesses. Who knows what they have in mind? Keep in mind, however, that Ilitch paid $1.6 million last year for a .17 acre piece with a tear-down building on it, adding to the cost. That's $236 a sq ft [[I don't have my calculator handy) , the highest price for land in downtown, ever, that I've heard of.