Detroit Ended its Streetcar Operation 53 Years Ago Today.

[Rocko]

One thing I have yet to check on is a little wedge of DSR owned right of way at Toledo and Clark on the southwest side. One of the DSR lines went down Toledo through here. At Clark, Toledo is offset such that the streetcars would not be able to make the sharp turns if staying within the street, so the streetcar tracks had a more gentle "zig zag" to go from Toledo east of Clark to Toledo west of Clark. The track went through an empty lot in the NE corner of the intersection. That lot is still empty today, which makes me think there could still be rails through there, but I have yet to confirm...

...anyone know if there are still any reminants there or be willing drive by there sometime to check it out?

[iheartthed]

One more thing, does anyone else see the irony in that Detroit dismantled its streetcar system and sold it off to Mexico City, and just several years after Detroit did that Mexico City beat out Detroit's bid to host the Olympics?

[Bigb23]

In citing a Wikipedia article, nothing is always set in stone. There is always the opportunity for rebuttal and rewrites for erroneous articles. That said, here's some other opinions and links.

Mike Gorman's letter in the Dec. 22 issue takes issue with my op-ed in which I mentioned the National City Lines Between 1936 and 1950, National City Lines [[NCL), a holding company sponsored and funded by General Motors, Firestone Tire, Standard Oil of California and Phillips Petroleum, bought out more than 100 electric surface-traction [[streetcar) systems in 45 cities [[including New conspiracy that helped destroy thousands of urban rail systems in the United States to make the world safe for General Motors Corp. He called it a "rabid conspiracy theory." However, National City's actions are widely known and well documented, and the proceedings are part of public record.

In May 2005, Ed O'Rourke posted a succinct summary of the NCL in the National Catholic Reporter, noting that an excerpt from an Oct. 2, 1946, letter of the Department of Justice to J. Edgar Hoover , describes the illegal activity:


"Investigation of the complaints disclosed the probable existence of a systematic campaign by National City Lines, acting with its manufacturing shareholders, to secure control over local transportation systems in various cities.... One result of the plan for integrated control over local transportation has been the elimination of electric railway cars in city transportation controlled by these companies."

On April 9, 1947, a federal grand jury unsealed two counts of criminal conspiracy against GM, National City Lines, Firestone Tire & Rubber Co., Phillips Petroleum Co., Mack Manufacturing Co., Standard Oil Co. of California and others.

On March 12, 1949, the jury delivered its decision. On Count 1, which was conspiracy to secure control of transit systems, they were found not guilty. On Count 2, which was conspiracy to monopolize the transit business for their own oil, tires and buses, they were found guilty as charged.

The defendants appealed all the way to the Supreme Court, but the convictions from the second count stood.

The National City Lines episode, in severely restricting transit choices for Americans and locking the country into development patterns almost utterly dependent on private automobiles and their attendant infrastructure, was a major factor in both devastating to the property tax base of the nation and in making us hostages to the oil market. Their success, and the modesty of the punishment they received from the court, fed the arrogance that led them, and us, into the sorry state we are all in today. It's nothing to dismiss out of hand.

Richard Risemberg

Los Angeles

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Settin...r)-a0192852147



And a list of all the links you could ever look at on the subject.

https://listserv.temple.edu/cgi-bin/...t-gold&P=54635

[Mikeg]

National City Lines didn't buy out Detroit Department of Street Railways

Well, that's not what Wikipedia says! Honestly, why even bother citing it when you readily admit that it is prone to rebuttals and re-writes. An "encyclopedia" that can change minute by minute and whose "facts" and "sources" are dependent on who made the last entry is totally worthless.

You guys might have a little more credibility if you were willing to concede that "evil" GM wasn't "actually the main reason" that the streetcars disappeared from the streets of Detroit. If you approached this with an open mind instead of a trying to blame it entirely on a corporate conspiracy, you'd find that there are a number of reasons for what happened.

Despite the fact that they worked for automakers like that "evil" GM, the very workers who made their cars were somehow able to afford them and they purchased them in droves. Their autos gave them the freedom to go wherever and whenever they wanted, without having to stand out in the elements and then stand some more in crowded streetcars. The streets of Detroit were already congested with commercial vehicular traffic serving the local industries and businesses and the increasing numbers of personal vehicles didn't help the situation. Despite the traffic congestion, commuters voted with their feet... errr cars, and the ridership of the poorly managed DSR started declining prior to WW II, which only brought a temporary reprieve. After the war, traffic planners decided that they could relieve the traffic jams on the major roadways by implementing curbside bus service and converting the streetcar tracks to reversible traffic lanes. Too bad they didn't stall on that decision for a few more years until after the expressways were finished....

GM's bus-related manufacturing divisions and National City Lines were bit players in what happened here in Detroit. If you must have a scapegoat, it would be far more rational to blame it on GM and the other auto manufacturers for giving the average middle-class worker an affordable personal transportation alternative to public transportation. However, you would also have to place an equal amount of blame on the leadership of the DSR [[and their unions) for not effectively managing their operations and providing a clean, comfortable and competitive alternative to stem the decline in ridership.

But I really have to ask, what purpose does it serve to try and place blame on something that happened more than a half-century ago in a city that now has less than half the population and jobs it did back then and a totally different set of transportation patterns and needs today?.

[iheartthed]

Well, that's not what Wikipedia says! Honestly, why even bother citing it when you readily admit that it is prone to rebuttals and re-writes. An "encyclopedia" that can change minute by minute and whose "facts" and "sources" are dependent on who made the last entry is totally worthless.

Wikipedia didn't say that National City Lines purchased DSR.

[iheartthed]

But I really have to ask, what purpose does it serve to try and place blame on something that happened more than a half-century ago in a city that now has less than half the population and jobs it did back then and a totally different set of transportation patterns and needs today?.

Because there is a direct correlation between Detroit's decline and the emerging of the city's pattern of neglecting mass transit. I mean, if you like the way things are going in Detroit and southeast Michigan now, then by all means keep doing what you're doing. If you'd like a healthier city and region, then you might want to look at when things started to go wrong and go back to the drawing board.

And for the record, Detroit has about the same number of people now as it did in the 1920s when its streetcar system was one of the premier systems in the world. So the size of the current population is not a good reason to not invest in a mass transit system.

[Mikeg]

Look, I'm not really interested in playing silly semantics games, but if you insist......

I specifically questioned the need to place the blame on conspirators, not an honest effort to identify the real reasons which may still be applicable today.

Furthermore, the Wikipedia article states, "National City Lines bought out more than 100 electric surface-traction systems in 45 cities,[2] including Detroit". National City Lines began acquiring streetcar systems in 1936 and since by then all of the remaining streetcar lines in Detroit belonged to the DSR and remained in their hands until they discontinued them in the 1940s and 1950s, I think it was fair of me to point out that the Wikipedia article was at odds with your true statement that "National City Lines didn't buy out Detroit Department of Street Railways".

[iheartthed]

Look, I'm not really interested in playing silly semantics games, but if you insist......

I specifically questioned the need to place the blame on conspirators, not an honest effort to identify the real reasons which may still be applicable today.

Furthermore, the Wikipedia article states, "National City Lines bought out more than 100 electric surface-traction systems in 45 cities,[2] including Detroit". National City Lines began acquiring streetcar systems in 1936 and since by then all of the remaining streetcar lines in Detroit belonged to the DSR and remained in their hands until they discontinued them in the 1940s and 1950s, I think it was fair of me to point out that the Wikipedia article was at odds with your true statement that "National City Lines didn't buy out Detroit Department of Street Railways".

Maybe. But we still can't find any definitive information on what happened to the street car lines that were still owned by EMR, since DSR did not buy them all. I haven't seen anything yet that says NCL did not buy up the remaining lines from EMR.

[bc_n_dtown]

OKay folks! Y'all have forced me to get out my research books. So here's the run down on Eastern Michigan Motorbus and Nation City Lines.....

The Eastern Michigan Railways, which iheartthed spoke of earlier, was originally the Detroit United Railway [[DUR), the privately-owned streetcar company who's routes the DSR took over in Detroit. After the DSR take-over in May of 1922, the DUR continued to operate its interurban operation, outside and into Detroit. It had also began a separate bus operation in 1924 known as the People's Motor Coach Company.

However, in September of 1928, the DUR was reorganized as Eastern Michigan Railways [[EMR) and its bus companies became Easter Michigan Motorbuses. The interurban operation had folded-up by 1932, and most of the rails were abandoned. The bus company, which operated both intercity and suburban routes, was later taken over in 1938, not by National City Lines, but by Greyhound. It was renamed Great Lakes Greyhound Lines on April 1, 1941. Later, in February of 1958, Great Lakes Greyhound Lines was sold to the American Transit Company [[another national bus company chain). The Great Lakes Transit Company would remain in operation until the company was later sold to SEMTA on April 1, 1974.

Although the DSR did take-over a few EMR tracks along Grand River, Gratiot, Van Dyke, and Electric Blvd. in SW Detroit between 1922 and 1928 after the city annexed those territories, and even began operations along Woodward to Royal Oak between 1931 and 1947, but for the most part the EMR rails were abandoned by the early 1930's. No street railway or interurban operations in Michigan were ever taken over by National City Lines.

Although National City Lines [[NCL) never operated within the city of Detroit, they did, however, own bus properties in a handful of Michigan cities including Jackson [[1936-1964), Kalamazoo [[1936-1967), Lansing [[1936-1937) and Saginaw [[1936-1962). Interestingly, the closest operation to Detroit was in Pontiac, Michigan [[1936-1960). [[Could Pontiac, MI have been the "Detroit" the Wikipedia article made reference to? If so, it's a bit misleading.)

Here's a listing of all former NCL properties across the U.S.
http://sbcglobalpwp.att.net/w/i/willvdv/holdbun.html

Here's a little on the NCL operation in Pontiac, MI:
After Eastern Michigan Railways called it quits on September 20, 1932, bus service in Pontiac was operated for a short period by Big Beaver Bus Co. [[which later became the Martin Lines), but by November 1932, the Pontiac Transportation Co. had taken over. In June of 1936, operating rights were granted to Pontiac City Lines, Inc. [[PCL), a National City Lines company. Since streetcar service in Pontiac had already ended in April of 1931, there was no conversion to buses in Pontiac by NCL. Pontiac bus service continued to be operated by NCL until PCL drivers went on strike in December of 1959. When its franchise expired in February 1960, NCL pulled out of Pontiac with its drivers still on strike.

The city of Pontiac was able to reach an agreement with American Transit Corp. in April of 1960, which by 1958 now also owned neighboring Great Lakes Transit routes. The city of Pontiac's Dept of Public Works later took over the bus service on February 2, 1971, and sold the operation to SEMTA, which took over the service on July 2, 1973 and contracted with Great Lakes Transit to operate the lines. As was already mentioned, SEMTA purchased GLT in 1974. The rest is history!

[Irvine Laird]

I'm sure ending passenger rail service in Detroit seemed like a good idea at the time, but hindsight is 20/20. We do not need to identify a villain. Dozens of interests likely influenced the matter.

Has anyone written a definitive history on the rise and fall of public transit in metro Detroit?

[bc_n_dtown]

Now for the DSR, GM and NCL controversy:
Unfortunately, this is one of those topics where we may never know what really transpired back then. Since there were no known death-bed confessions made we may never know the true story behind why city officials were so anxious to immediately sell off its fairly new PCC fleet to Mexico City. The sale was almost like selling off salvageable items after a fire.

But here are a few things we do know. The GM, National City Lines [[NCL) scandal DID NOT include the city of Detroit, since the DSR was a municipally-owned operation [[which it still is today under DDOT) and NCL primarily acquired privately-owned transit companies that were up for sale. So the Wikipedia article was incorrect in listing Detroit in the initial conspiracy theory.

Interestingly however, it was the Public Utility Holding Company Act of 1935 which initially did more for the demise of the streetcar than General Motors, but GM was able to take advantage of the situation, although unfairly [[and probably illegally so) in the view of many. Unlike the DSR in Detroit, most streetcar companies prior to 1935 were owned by electric utility companies, which were forced to divest themselves from these holdings by the 1935 Public Utilities Act. This opened the door for GM to eventually monopolize the transit industry through National City Lines [[which it is alleged GM secretly funded) by buying up these properties and then replacing the streetcars with buses built by another GM subsidiary, Yellow Truck & Coach [[which didn't become GM Coach until 1943).

Meanwhile, during that same period in Detroit, the DSR had already decided to phase out its streetcars back in 1934, some 20-plus years before its PCC cars were sold. The DSR purchased nearly 1,900 buses between 1936 and 1943, not from GM, but from the Ford Motor Company, which was never involved in this conspiracy. The DSR was actually FoMoCo's number one purchaser of its Transit Bus. By the start of WWII, the DSR was already on its way to becoming an all bus operation. Ironically, the DSR basically ignored Yellow Coach [[GM) buses from 1929 thru 1945, during the height of the GM, Firestone Rubber, Standard Oil, Phillips Petroleum and NCL Conspiracy scandal [[1936-1949).

After WWII, the DSR management had planed to continue purchasing new buses with no future plans for new streetcars. But political pressure from City Hall convinced the DSR to at least buy new PCC cars for the city's main line, Woodward. Additional PCCs were purchased two years later, in 1949, after pro-rail advocate Eugene Van Antwerp became mayor.

Although the GM Conspiracy played no role here in Detroit, charges of a major GM influence in the DSR's decision to eliminate its seven-to-nine year old PCC fleet have been raised by many. The events which led to the replacement of the Detroit PCCs between 1954 and 1956 with GM diesel buses and the eventual monopoly by GM of the local [[metro) public transit arena is a separate situation from the infamous GM/NCL scandal. Of course those events which transpired between 1951 and 1956 have also left many unanswered questions to this day.

[[sorry folks! I apologize for these lengthy responses)

[sam]

Today, April 8, 2009, marks the 53rd Anniversary of the ending of street railway service in the city of Detroit.

Our family arrived in Highland Park in 1953. I remember riding the streetcars down to Hudson's. I also remember the original smoke stacks of the Ford plant that used to border Woodward Ave. Street cars are making a comeback. There are a couple projects here in DC that are either planned or underway.

Sam

[bc_n_dtown]

Has anyone written a definitive history on the rise and fall of public transit in metro Detroit?

There are a small number of detailed books written on the DSR and local public transit, and a few others on SE Michigan rail and interurban service.

The best book sources I've found on the DSR are the 1980 hardcover book, "DETROIT'S STREET RAILWAYS Volume II: City Lines 1922-1956" by Jack E. Schramm, William H. Henning and Thomas J. Dworman [[Bulletin 120 of Central Electric Railfans' Association). This book, since written for pro-rail enthusiasts, tends to give a more favorable angle toward streetcars. Although out of print, you can always run across copies being sold online.

The other writings, also written by Jack E. Schramm, were a series of articles written for the Motor Bus Society's "Motor Coach Age" magazine. Motor Coach Age is a bus history magazine written for bus enthusiasts and tends to present another side of the issue. The three MCA articles written on the DSR are found in the following issues:
Detroit's DSR, Part 1 [[January-February 1991)
Detroit's DSR, Part 2 [[March-April 1992)
Detroit's DSR, Part 3 [[May-June 1993)

Back issues of MCA [[if available) can be found at: http://www.motorbussociety.org/

Although both publications were written for a select audience, both do a great job of covering the history of the Detroit public transit scene.

[Bigb23]

Thems fightin' words -
- I'll meet ALL you guys back in the alley at NOON. !