GOP Health Plan: Die Quickly

Lorax · September-30-09, 08:15 PM

Congressman Alan Grayson of Florida's 8th congressional district on the house floor today denounced the lack of a GOP health care plan by stating their only ideas for reform are for those without health care to "die quickly."

Rhetoric which has been denounced by the GOP, and for which an apology was requested.

Congressman Grayson apologized, not to the GOP, but to the 44,500 individuals and the families of those individuals who have died for lack of health care each year in America.

In addition, Congressman Grayson has added an amendment to the Rethuglican sponsored bill to defund ACORN by adding names of corporations, inlcuding Halliburton, Bechtel, KBR, Xe [[formerly Blackwater) to the list of corporations who have cheated the government [[us) while under contract.

Let's see how quickly the Fascist Reich jumps to the defense of their favored corporate buddies on this list. Anyone wanna take bets?

Here's the link to the article on Congressman Grayson:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...w072343D22.DTL

**ghettopalmetto** · September-30-09, 08:33 PM

There's one way for the GOP to avoid such a "smear": present a constructive health care reform plan!

**Detroitej72** · September-30-09, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

There's one way for the GOP to avoid such a "smear": present a constructive health care reform plan!

Why would they want to, since they are making a fortune off the private, so-called health care companies by way of lobbyists and being on their payrolls?

BTW, these evil for-profit companies are the reason that so many Americans are either dying or going into bankruptcy.

**rb336** · October-01-09, 07:46 AM

Grayson did an artful, and humorous job of showing the vast stupidity of the right. the bonus was the wingnuts getting all whiny afterwords, showing they work from different rules when the shoe is on the other foot

**oladub** · October-01-09, 08:48 AM

Lorax, I have linked Alan Grayson before. While Bernie Sanders is the sponsor of S604, Grayson is a superb co-sponsor of HR1207, the House version. Here he is ripping apart Federal Reserve representatives. Grayson and Sanders are seeking accountability and transparancy. Unfortunately, President Obama seems to be on the other side of this issue. Grayson is an up and coming star in the Democrat Party who has a tongue in cheek caustic wit and even more importantly wants to get something out of dollars spent. If we could get the few non-corporatist Democrats like Grayson, Kaptur, Kucinich, Sanders together with their few counterpart Republicans; Ron Paul and ... [[ok maybe one), maybe this country could get back on track.

Alan Grayson: Is Anyone Minding the Store at the Federal Reserve? over 1M hits

Florida congressman Alan Grayson laughs in Ben Bernanke's face - priceless!

$1.2 Trillion Slush Fund: Congressman Alan Grayson Grills Fed Vice Chair Donald Kohn

**Papasito** · October-01-09, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

Why would they want to, since they are making a fortune off the private, so-called health care companies by way of lobbyists and being on their payrolls?

Oh? Just Republicans are making money off of the current Health Care System?
Sorry, but Democrats in Government are filthy rich, too. And they stand to make even more money if their initiatives are passed.

Both sides are greedy money hungry corrupt mobsters, and care more about their agenda then you and I, the American people.

**Big Dog** · October-01-09, 09:55 AM

PaPa, Just where did you come up, with that idea?

**jiminnm** · October-01-09, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

There's one way for the GOP to avoid such a "smear": present a constructive health care reform plan!

Senator Coburn proposed legislation in May, and the Dems ignored it. Go read his proposal yourself. It resolves many current problems and keeps government involvement to a minimum.
http://coburn.senate.gov/public/inde...areReform.Home

The Dems also don't want to allow time for the public to review any proposed legislation prior to votes.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...HW-ywD9AT460O0

**rb336** · October-01-09, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by jiminnm

Senator Coburn proposed legislation in May, and the Dems ignored it. Go read his proposal yourself. It resolves many current problems and keeps government involvement to a minimum.
http://coburn.senate.gov/public/inde...areReform.Home

The Dems also don't want to allow time for the public to review any proposed legislation prior to votes.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...HW-ywD9AT460O0

coburn's bill is a laugh, for the most part. it does nothing but redirect tax dollars straight into the hands of the insurance companies. it does nothing to stem the huge increases in premiums and deductables that make a large number of policies jokes.
it's a sop to Big Ins, pure and simple. The "tax credit" and "advances" are no where near enough to buy even cheap shamsurance [[you know, the insurance where you pay for almost anything anyway)

**rb336** · October-01-09, 02:02 PM

btw --

it does contain the "just don't get sick" clause

ccbatson · October-01-09, 04:05 PM

Here is the argument that is proof positive that the libs have it backwards: In order to fund their takeover that claims to cover 20 of the 30 million healthy uninsured, the Libs are going to raid Medicare [[500billion in cuts). What form will these cuts take? What is all of this end of life business in the bill about? Put 2 and 2 together and you can only conclude that the Dems, NOT THE REPUBLICANS, are fixing to ration care and hope for people [[particularly frail elderly people) to die quickly.

**elganned** · October-01-09, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Here is the argument that is proof positive that the libs have it backwards: In order to fund their takeover that claims to cover 20 of the 30 million healthy uninsured, the Libs are going to raid Medicare [[500billion in cuts). What form will these cuts take? What is all of this end of life business in the bill about? Put 2 and 2 together and you can only conclude that the Dems, NOT THE REPUBLICANS, are fixing to ration care and hope for people [[particularly frail elderly people) to die quickly.

But bankrupting/ending Medicare would be a good thing, according to the latest encyclical from the Objectivist Church. Or didn't you read the memo? Then people would have to pay for their own end-of-life care, which is just and reasonable under the Personal Responsibility clause of the manifesto.

Of course, there's no provision in any of the plans put forward that prohibits people from paying for their own care out-of-pocket, so this argument looks more and more like a Straw Man...

You can't have it both ways, Cc. You can't condemn the Socialist Plot which is Medicare/Medicaid and then turn around and vilify the Democrat plans because they will somehow harm the programs.

Lorax · October-01-09, 06:19 PM

I know, it's amazing watching that little bat head spinning around faster than Linda Blair's minus the pea soup.

If 500 billion can be cut from Medicare fraud perpetrated by the doctors who are bilking, ripping off, stealing, thieving our tax dollars through Medicare doctor fraud, then I'm all for it. And that's why the pseudo Dr. Batson, who plays one on this forum is against it. One less sports car next year for the good doctor- what a shame.

**ZRX Doug** · October-01-09, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

There's one way for the GOP to avoid such a "smear": present a constructive health care reform plan!

Umm..yeah. Like the plans that they have ALREADY presented, none of which were given the time of day by the supposedly "bipartisan" Dems who are "eager to reach across the aisle?"

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/52896

Keep eating up the lies the MSM feeds you..

ccbatson · October-01-09, 10:57 PM

Bankrupting Medicare versus phasing it out...the end point is inevitable except that phasing it out would be less painful, and, most importantly, it could stem the drain on everything else economic.

**elganned** · October-01-09, 11:19 PM

According to you, Cc, Medicare is already bankrupt. Why prolong the agony?

It's like letting the investment banks fail--painful for everyone now, but better in the long run. Wasn't that your position on the bailout? Why change your tune for Medicare? Seems to me that what's sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander.

ccbatson · October-01-09, 11:28 PM

Here is the reason...Money was, and is being taken from beneficiaries to fund Medicare, by force, not voluntarily. This is done [[unconstitutionally) by our government and bankrupting these people of their assets with nothing in return is highly immoral and criminal.

Contrast the banks, or GM, or any other bailed out entity...investors voluntarily put money in knowing there is risk, so, if they lose, they lose.

Regarding banks holding mortgages, if they go bankrupt, whatever assets and liabilities they have remaining are to be distributed to lean holders until the assets are used up. I suppose mortgage holders may benefit as indirect entities protected by bankruptcy laws and have a reduction of the capital to pay back...to whomever is issued the account receivable by the bankruptcy proceedings

**elganned** · October-02-09, 06:59 AM

You speak merely of intent and methodology.

Consider a glass bowl that shatters against the floor. Whether it was dropped accidently or thrown deliberately, do you really think it matters to the bowl?

You say the current system is already bankrupt. Bankrupt is bankrupt. Bankrupt means we don't have the money to cover already existing obligations, much less enough to "prop it up" while we "phase it out".

So why continue pouring more sand down the same rathole? For a so-called "realist", you certainly seem to have quite a blind spot, there.

Your position is as consistant as the weather in Nova Scotia, i.e., not at all.

**Detroitej72** · October-02-09, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Here is the argument that is proof positive that the libs have it backwards: In order to fund their takeover

By using the word takeover, you are repeating the scare tactics employed by right wing fear mongers. There is no plan to takeover, just another option for the public to consider instead of the evil big insurance companies.

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Put 2 and 2 together and you can only conclude that the Dems, NOT THE REPUBLICANS, are fixing to ration care and hope for people [[particularly frail elderly people) to die quickly.

Health care rationing is going on right now, courtesy of big insurance, of which the right wing endorses, since they believe that corporate entities are good and are simply following a free market strategy.

**elganned** · October-02-09, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Put 2 and 2 together and you can only conclude that the Dems, NOT THE REPUBLICANS, are fixing to ration care and hope for people [[particularly frail elderly people) to die quickly.

"Rationing" is taking place now, and will. The Republicans just want to "outsource" the onus to the "free market" rather than shoulder the burden themselves.

A good free-market solution: offload your responsibilities for someone else to worry about.

**gnome** · October-02-09, 08:14 AM

Does anyone here want to "die slowly"? When it is my choice, I pick the quick exit, but it doesn't happen that way.

A little failing eyesight and I won't see the rug that I trip over to break my hip which will lead to bed sores due to high sugar caused by the inactivity of of being in bed which will lead to a staph infection and a round on antiboitics that are compromised by the insulin which leads to retained fluids and pnumonia and a dirt nap.

pretty depressing.

Lorax · October-02-09, 09:26 AM

Gnome, that was a super post! Couldn't have laid out the scenario toward eternal rest better myself.

Lorax · October-02-09, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Here is the reason...Money was, and is being taken from beneficiaries to fund Medicare, by force, not voluntarily. This is done [[unconstitutionally) by our government and bankrupting these people of their assets with nothing in return is highly immoral and criminal.

Contrast the banks, or GM, or any other bailed out entity...investors voluntarily put money in knowing there is risk, so, if they lose, they lose.

Regarding banks holding mortgages, if they go bankrupt, whatever assets and liabilities they have remaining are to be distributed to lean holders until the assets are used up. I suppose mortgage holders may benefit as indirect entities protected by bankruptcy laws and have a reduction of the capital to pay back...to whomever is issued the account receivable by the bankruptcy proceedings

Kudos for the longest post you've yet given us!

Problem is, banks engaged in the same behavior, selling CDO's, and CDS's as if they were Monopoly money, gambling with our mortgages and other investments like drunken whores.

So basically the entire system is a gambler's paradise, with corporate welfare in the form of taxpayer money as the last honey pot available to bail out their asses.

Rethuglicans couldn't just sit and watch that bulging sack of cash known as Medicare and not be tempted to dip into it when it suited them, plundering the Medicare Trust and rendering it unable to fulfill it's obligations beyond a certain date. Let's place blame where it squarely lies, in the laps of the corporately funded Rethuglican party who never met one dollar of corporate welfare they didn't like.

**elganned** · October-02-09, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

Does anyone here want to "die slowly"? When it is my choice, I pick the quick exit, but it doesn't happen that way.

A little failing eyesight and I won't see the rug that I trip over to break my hip which will lead to bed sores due to high sugar caused by the inactivity of of being in bed which will lead to a staph infection and a round on antiboitics that are compromised by the insulin which leads to retained fluids and pnumonia and a dirt nap.

pretty depressing.

Well, my granny used to say, "I believe we were all put on this earth to accomplish certain things. Right now, I'm so far behind I'll never die."

**ZRX Doug** · October-02-09, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by ZRX Doug

Umm..yeah. Like the plans that they have ALREADY presented, none of which were given the time of day by the supposedly "bipartisan" Dems who are "eager to reach across the aisle?"

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/52896

Keep eating up the lies the MSM feeds you..

Not even worth a response, eh? Keep drinking the Kool-Aid..