Penske Saturn deal fell apart, GM will be closing dealerships.

**darwinism** · September-30-09, 06:57 PM

350 Saturn dealers will be winding down, and 13,000 jobs may be lost.

If Roger Penske can't save a small portion of the automobile industry, does any enthusiastic DetroitYes forumer even stand a chance ?

Sad to see Saturn going away, it is actually one of the better divisions of GM.

**pkbroch** · September-30-09, 07:59 PM

Well!! The new administration auto CZAR said GM should get rid of several divisions. Pontiac, Hummer and Saturn as part of the downsizing to get Gov. loans. Of course the folks in DC always know best, maybe they could give Saturn and Penske 1/1000 of the money they gave ML, BOA, and the rest of the financial bottom feeders, and this could come from the bonuses they are giving there executives. 1&1/2 billion in bonuses in the next fiscal year.

ML and others give bonuses and the financials in the market go up and jobs go down. As usual the fat cats on Wall Street just keep taking and never giving back.

I am very upset, I really am losing all faith in our system.

Very Unhappy,

**ghettopalmetto** · September-30-09, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by pkbroch

Well!! The new administration auto CZAR said GM should get rid of several divisions. Pontiac, Hummer and Saturn as part of the downsizing to get Gov. loans. Of course the folks in DC always know best, maybe they could give Saturn and Penske 1/1000 of the money they gave ML, BOA, and the rest of the financial bottom feeders, and this could come from the bonuses they are giving there executives. 1&1/2 billion in bonuses in the next fiscal year.

ML and others give bonuses and the financials in the market go up and jobs go down. As usual the fat cats on Wall Street just keep taking and never giving back.

I am very upset, I really am losing all faith in our system.

Very Unhappy,

GM's been losing money for years, and they wouldn't even exist right now if they hadn't received government loans. Be as upset as you want.

crawford · September-30-09, 08:11 PM

Um, pkbroch, you do realize that the aid to financial firms consisted of high-interest loans, of which the American taxpayer has [[so far) made billions, right?

How much do you think the American taxpayer is going to make off of GM, Chrysler and the auto suppliers?

If it wasn't for Washington going in massive debt, none of these auto companies would even exist.

As for bonuses, the majority of Wall Street compensation is in bonuses, not weekly salary. So yes, any major Wall Street firm better be paying hundreds of millions or even a few billion in bonuses, or there is something seriously wrong.

**jtf1972** · September-30-09, 08:15 PM

GM was just too big. In 1965 it was fine to have as many divisions as it did, but in 2005 it was selling more models spread out over more divisions and competing against more companies than 40 years prior. I had been saying GM needed to pair itself down for years & stop selling competing models not only across its own divisions, but within them.

What I would have done as a plan to save GM: Announce that GM is glad for the support from the US government and taxpayer and that the saving of this company is the saving of American jobs. Cut foreign plants & investments, increase domestic investments. Focus the divisions by cutting models, rebranding most dealerships as GM dealers, where you could go look at a Pontiac, Chevy or Buick [[Cadillac is special.) Pontiac being more for specialty cars, Buick for larger vehicles, Chevy targeting Honda, Toyota & Ford. As for Saturn, I would name the new, small Chevy the Saturn.

But what do I know?

**softailrider** · September-30-09, 08:25 PM

It was a money loser right from the onset. I'm shocked it lasted as long as it did, they should have dropped it 5 years ago.

**pkbroch** · September-30-09, 08:33 PM

Crawford,

Spoken like a true person from NYC.

And Ghetto?? The car makers from Japan and Europe came in with their Government backup since VW in the 1960's

I know on this yes detroit forum, you love to bash Detroit industries, from your ivory towers,
or pc at starbucks, and other free internet connections, if you had a solution you would be working at real job and not spending all your time on line, pontificating on the ills of the current social system.

There is a commercial on TV, concerning credit rates it's called Creditreport.com.. Many times when I try to visualize some of the off the wall folks on Dyes, I see those young boys on the commercial.

Lets have a discussion on Saturn and not a slam fest.

**wazootyman** · September-30-09, 08:51 PM

Solution to all of GM's problems: Hire Random Internet Guy to become your new CEO. But he's not just a CEO, he's a designer, world-class engineer of all trades and a brilliant accountant.

**wazootyman** · September-30-09, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by crawford

Um, pkbroch, you do realize that the aid to financial firms consisted of high-interest loans, of which the American taxpayer has [[so far) made billions, right?

How much do you think the American taxpayer is going to make off of GM, Chrysler and the auto suppliers?

Who needs a tangible product when you can just bank the hell out of each other to make money?

**Dan** · September-30-09, 10:25 PM

Source please?

**Cincinnati_Kid** · September-30-09, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by pkbroch

Crawford,

Spoken like a true person from NYC.

And Ghetto?? The car makers from Japan and Europe came in with their Government backup since VW in the 1960's

I know on this yes detroit forum, you love to bash Detroit industries, from your ivory towers,
or pc at starbucks, and other free internet connections, if you had a solution you would be working at real job and not spending all your time on line, pontificating on the ills of the current social system.

There is a commercial on TV, concerning credit rates it's called Creditreport.com.. Many times when I try to visualize some of the off the wall folks on Dyes, I see those young boys on the commercial.

Lets have a discussion on Saturn and not a slam fest.

Truer words were never spoken. He's nothing but negative energy.

**GrandCircus289** · September-30-09, 11:10 PM

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/30/p...-future-produ/

**professorscott** · September-30-09, 11:29 PM

Hey, Saturn wasn't a bad car, and this is a terrible blow to a lot of people who don't need one more terrible blow. But the fact is, Roger Penske - who is a great guy, but a businessman, not purely a philanthropist - needed somebody to agree to supply cars to be sold under the Saturn name, and could not quite get it done.

Big shame - I thought this was pointing the way for the future of the global car industry. Why should Ford make cars at all? Have somebody else make 'em, and sell 'em as Fords, just the way GE does appliances, or John Deere does lawnmowers. But it didn't work out.

**smogboy** · September-30-09, 11:46 PM

This really is a shame. I honestly thought that out of all of the GM brands, Saturn had the best appeal with most consumers thinking about getting a foreign car. I remember when they were first thought up, they were supposed to be a slightly different car company that could go toe-to-toe with the likes of Toyota & Honda. I even remember when Saturn didn't even go with a local ad agency in hopes of trying to avoid some of the local recycled car guys here.

Styling wise I thought they were always a little bland but then I never thought of the Honda Accord or Toyota Camry as being very hip or forwardly stylish. I always thought Saturn was the one GM brand that still retained some of its resale value much like some of the Honda vehicles. And out of their entire line, would I be too blunt to say that Saturn was also perceived to be one of GM's most green lines? They seemed very much willing to try some of the hybrid technologies whereas some of the old GM rearguard went for more cosmetic changes than technological.

It's too bad that a local like Penske couldn't have bought them, improved upon it and shown GM how to really run a different car company. The competition would've been good for both companies and might've even stoked some more creative innovation [[what I believe is to be the saving grace out of this economic misery & downturn).

**Kathleen** · October-01-09, 05:41 AM

I'm disappointed with this news. I love my 2003 Saturn Vue!! With nearly110,000 miles on it, we've had little trouble with it, only the usual maintenance. And I really think it is a sharp looking vehicle. Of course, they changed the styling in subsequent years, so much that it looks like a slightly larger Pontiac Vibe, which I bypassed in 2003 because I didn't care for its styling.

So I"m thinking that I never give up my Vue...that whenever it is time for a new car, the Vue goes into the garage and becomes the classic car I someday hoped to have!!

**wazootyman** · October-01-09, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Kathleen

I'm disappointed with this news. I love my 2003 Saturn Vue!! With nearly110,000 miles on it, we've had little trouble with it, only the usual maintenance. And I really think it is a sharp looking vehicle. Of course, they changed the styling in subsequent years, so much that it looks like a slightly larger Pontiac Vibe, which I bypassed in 2003 because I didn't care for its styling.

So I"m thinking that I never give up my Vue...that whenever it is time for a new car, the Vue goes into the garage and becomes the classic car I someday hoped to have!!

I love my Vue, too [[I've got a 2007). That and my wife's 2009 Aura have been outstanding cars; we've got 58,000 and 12,000 nearly trouble-free miles on both. I've had a couple of small issues on mine [[wheel bearing, stuck ignition switch) but they were covered in full by Saturn of Plymouth. I don't think I've had even a minor problem in nearly 20,000 miles.

I was sick over this last night [[which lead to my grumpy comments earlier). Jay, who sold us the Aura is fantastic. The entire service department has been fantastic. I hope they manage to stay open in some form for service only, because it's really one of the major reasons I bought the car.

In fact, a quick story about that: I had my Vue in for the stuck ignition switch service I mentioned earlier. That, and an oil change. After sitting in the waiting room for an hour, they told me they were having some trouble getting it fixed, and that I could go home in the meantime. Parked right outside the service department was a loaner 2009 Aura - warmed up, ready for me to take. Paperwork required? None, just take it home and we'll call you. A couple hours later [[it was a little after 8:00 at this point) I took the then-fiancee with me to test drive the car, knowing I could sell her on it. She didn't have a Saturn at that point, but back in college drove an SC2, and loved "her little Saturn". Anyhow, I get to the dealer, and they hand me my car key, saying "you're all set." They ended up having to change out the entire assembly [[it couldn't be repaired) and door lock. No charge. I think I had 40,000 or so miles on it at this point - well outside the bumper-to-bumper warranty. Didn't even hit me up for the cost of the oil change. We were back to test drive and buy her fully-loaded Aura XR within the week. I even volunteered to handle all maintenance, since I was so impressed with the service guys.

This is one of the reasons I get so fired up when people purchase foreign cars - when vehicles like the Vue and Aura have treated us so well. They could have very well supported overwhelmingly domesticly made cars [[80% on the Aura - engine and transmission built in Michigan) that were designed and engineered in Warren, supported by staff in Detroit. Instead, they buy a Camry, a car with a lot of recent quality issues - but hey, it's a Toyota and they let Americans build 'em here, so it's got to be superior, right?

Support of the domestics and national pride are doomed - Toyota and Honda WILL be the most American car you can buy if people continue to buy a majority foreign cars, and the likes of the GM, Ford and Chrysler continue to suffer and die. GM mismanagement aside, if more people had been buying Saturns, it wouldn't be dead today.

**CountrySquire** · October-01-09, 06:18 AM

I want to thank GM for not being flexible and Roger Penske for wanting Saturn handed to him on a silver platter wrapped up with a big red bow. The timing to add more real estate to a market saturated with property is the best for all concerned, GM can only expect to get pennies on the dollar for what they paid for it after it sits vacant for years, and what a great time to add 13K people to the unemployment roles that I fund with my tax dollars when they can't find work after a year.

**Johnnny5** · October-01-09, 06:28 AM

Just because Saturn is being phased out, does not mean that the entire lineup will be as well. It would not surprise me one bit to see a "G.M Vue" or other rebranded models over the next few years.

**urbanophile** · October-01-09, 08:18 AM

I bought a brand new '92 Saturn SL2 when I graduated from college. To this day it is still the only brand new car I've ever owned. I love it. It was a great car that lasted until 200,000 miles with only one premature repair problem [[the alternator failed at 80K, a common problem on those cars, I'm told). Sad to see what could have been a great company suffer after such a promising start.

**darwinism** · October-01-09, 08:52 AM

The hard-core die-hard union folks at this thread, Link, are probably glad to see Penske/Saturn fail because Renault-Nissan is going to be the company building the cars when Roger Penske runs the show moving forward.

Like those of you chiming in above, one of my best friend and one of my wife's aunts own Saturns. They have been happy with their purchase, and happy with their after-sales support through the years.

**Det_ard** · October-01-09, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by CountrySquire

I want to thank GM for not being flexible and Roger Penske for wanting Saturn handed to him on a silver platter wrapped up with a big red bow. The timing to add more real estate to a market saturated with property is the best for all concerned, GM can only expect to get pennies on the dollar for what they paid for it after it sits vacant for years, and what a great time to add 13K people to the unemployment roles that I fund with my tax dollars when they can't find work after a year.

So [[taxpayer-owned) GM should keep the financial black hole that is Saturn for a while, and Penske should invest millions in a company that may not have cars to sell in a few years? Brilliant idea, are you Roger Smith or something?

**CountrySquire** · October-01-09, 09:03 AM

Nahh, if I were Roger Smith I'd do something like populate a once proud domestic franchise with Korean made trash. Doesn't seem as Penske had many good intentions for Saturn once he obtained it anyway. And yes I prefer my tax dollars go towards something productive, not unproductive like extending unemployment benefits becasue a few selfish men could not have it their way like this was Burger King or something.

**sirrealone** · October-01-09, 09:06 AM

If Penske didn't have the manufacturing side of things lined up, he never should have held a press conference announcing that he wanted to take on Saturn. I don't know the details or where the blame lies in why this deal couldn't get done, but Penske is to blame for getting the hopes up of all of these workers when he apparently had no business doing so. For that, his reputation and the positive things he's done takes a big hit in my eyes.

**upinottawa** · October-01-09, 09:09 AM

Wazootyman, you likely know that the Aura is a rebadged Opel Vectra which has been replaced by the Opel Insignia. The Insignia will be rebadged as the Buick Regal in North America. The Regal should be here in a couple of years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Insignia

Of course, your Vue is a rebadged Opel Antara. While GM has nixed plans to rebadge the Antara as a Buick and therefore no direct rebadge of the Antara is to be sold in North America, the new Chevrolet Equinox is a more advanced and fuel efficient evolution of the Antara/Vue family of vehicles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Antara

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Equinox

**wazootyman** · October-01-09, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by upinottawa

Of course, your Vue is a rebadged Opel Antara. While GM has nixed plans to rebadge the Antara as a Buick and therefore no direct rebadge of the Antara is to be sold in North America, the new Chevrolet Equinox is a more advanced and fuel efficient evolution of the Antara/Vue family of vehicles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Antara

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Equinox

A minor correction - the 2008 Vue and newer is an Opel Antara. The 2007 model I own [[the original body style with some styling updates in 2006) was designed by Saturn as far as I know.