Michigan Physicians Tax?

[Gistok]

Maybe this discussion got lost in another thread or people didn't notice... but it looks like the state legislature is thinking about imposing a 3% tax on Physicians... in order to help with the state get matching funds for Medicaid patients...

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...FREE/909229990

This may be part of Michigan trying to balance their budget next month.

I'm sure this will get at least one persons attention....

[Gannon]

If this is offset by a reduction in liability insurance fees or a cap on the most ridiculous of lawsuits, then I see no harm. At worst, give them a credit on Federal Taxes paid as an offset...there is NO way any additional taxes should be levied on just one portion of the population.

Targeted taxation can be harmful to the extreme, no matter where it is aimed.

Although a graduated tax scheme seems fair, but gradually REDUCED as income lowers to accommodate the true costs of living.

Being altruistic with taxation is WAY different than punishing those who seem to have excess...until you are in their shoes, you don't know the sheer pain of living on only $200,000 per year...when your golfing buddies earn twice that.



[[and YES, that last part was typed with a huge grin and my tongue planted firmly in my cheek, teeth clenched...I was hoping to test the blood pressure stability of someone)

[elganned]

The tax code has been a way for many years for government to either promote via deductions and credits those behaviors we [[as a society, through our elected officials) deem beneficial to the commonweal or to discourage through additional taxes those behaviors we deem harmful to the commonweal.

This proposed tax does neither. It punishes behavior we deem beneficial, which is contrary to good tax policy. It is merely an attempt to grab some perceived "low hanging fruit" to cover the lack of competence in state government in reaching a fiscally responsible budget. Short-term gain with long-term loss.

Altogether a bad idea. I'm dumbfounded that seemingly educated individuals could even consider it.

[Blueidone]

How about we tax all contributions, gifts, favors etc done by lobbyists to our legislators? I think we could solve the budget crisis very easily.

Frankly, I'm very tired of the legislators wrangling over who or what is going to get taxed or services cut or whatever, while they never consider reducing their pay or benefits like most of the rest of us have had to do. Maybe it would be just a drop in the bucket, but how about they all take a 20% drop in salary and lose 20% of their benefits. And how about we delete the pension/retirement fund for the retired legislators. Most of these people are/were lawyers. Let them go back to practicing law and stop feeding off the trough of the taxpayers?

No, instead we will tax physicians so they can pass it on to the patients.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "How about we tax all contributions, gifts, favors etc done by lobbyists to our legislators? I think we could solve the budget crisis very easily. "

Or one more step closer to the source, Arrest these Mo****F*ckers for bribing our public officials and corrupting our Government, and ultimately screwing us all.

Patch the roof, you won't need so many buckets.

[rb336]

How about we tax all contributions, gifts, favors etc done by lobbyists to our legislators? I think we could solve the budget crisis very easily.

Frankly, I'm very tired of the legislators wrangling over who or what is going to get taxed or services cut or whatever, while they never consider reducing their pay or benefits like most of the rest of us have had to do. Maybe it would be just a drop in the bucket, but how about they all take a 20% drop in salary and lose 20% of their benefits. And how about we delete the pension/retirement fund for the retired legislators. Most of these people are/were lawyers. Let them go back to practicing law and stop feeding off the trough of the taxpayers? .

couldn't agree with you more on all those points. While we're at it, how about cutting their staffs 20-40%?

[oladub]

Blueidone is right. The taxes would just be passed on to paying patients or their insurance companies. Looking at the larger picture, patients would be financing a gift from the federal government which is ok if they like buying their own presents. It is another example of the federal government making medical care less affordable if insurance rates have to go up to cover the new charge. In Wisconsin, and probably some other states, taxes have been charged to hospital and nursing home patients for the same reason.

If the doctors were somehow not compensated they have the option of moving.

[elganned]

It is another example of the federal government making medical care less affordable if insurance rates have to go up to cover the new charge.

This initiative doesn't come from the feds, oladub, except as the indirect cause [[Medicaid allocation).

It's the Michigan legislature broaching it to cover shortfalls caused by their own short-sighted bickering and their failure to agree on a reasonable budget.

[Blueidone]

rb...I accept that amendment to my motion :-)

[elganned]

I second the amendment.

[MCP-001]

Maybe this discussion got lost in another thread or people didn't notice... but it looks like the state legislature is thinking about imposing a 3% tax on Physicians... in order to help with the state get matching funds for Medicaid patients...

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...FREE/909229990

This may be part of Michigan trying to balance their budget next month.

I'm sure this will get at least one persons attention....

And just where did the federal government get the money in the first place to dole out as they see fit?

I have a problem with this on a number of levels, the least of which being the federal government's involvement in health care in the first place [[ever notice that health care costs began to increase dramatically when LBJ instituted medicare in the 60's?).

Taxing a targeted group to ensure that money that has already been taxed is spent on the purpose in was collected in the first place... does anyone find this bizarre?

[oladub]

This initiative doesn't come from the feds, oladub, except as the indirect cause [[Medicaid allocation).

It's the Michigan legislature broaching it to cover shortfalls caused by their own short-sighted bickering and their failure to agree on a reasonable budget.

No disagreement. How the state chooses to raise its portion is its own business. This is what the crainsdetroit article said, "The possible physician tax, known as a Quality Assurance Assessment Program fee, would be used to increase federal matching share dollars for the state’s Medicaid program. For every $1 the state raises, the federal government matches with another $1.72." Breaking this down, Michigan patients, or their insurance companies, will be paying an additional $1.00 for every $.72 of Medicare aid federal taxpayers provide the State for Medicare.

Which reminds me-
‘We Have to Go Spend Money to Keep From Going Bankrupt’ -Joe Biden

[elganned]

Taxing a targeted group to ensure that money that has already been taxed is spent on the purpose in was collected in the first place... does anyone find this bizarre?

And don't forget the fact that the money collected from said tax will be paid back to the very people from which it was collected when they submit their bill for service.

Kinda like taxing the plumber so you have enough money to pay the plumber...

Bizarre, indeed. What are they thinking? Or are they?

[rb336]

[[ever notice that health care costs began to increase dramatically when LBJ instituted medicare in the 60's?).

wrong again. it was the 70s when the laws alowing all those HMOs and PPOs went into effect

[MCP-001]

wrong again. it was the 70s when the laws alowing all those HMOs and PPOs went into effect

Let's look at the chart, shall we?




Nope, that first spike came about in 1965.

And what program was established in 1964?

Tick, tock, tick, tock, tick, tock...

[elganned]

Actually, the first spike according to your chart came in about 1955, not 1965. That would have been squarely during the Eisenhower administration. It actually leveled somewhat during Kennedy, and took off again in 1965.

But thanks for playing, and you win our home version.

So what happened in 1970 that caused that steady upslope to 1985?

[Gannon]

For starters, the oil embargo. That shot up costs across the board for everything.

[Gannon]

One would think that it combined with any actual increases in medical costs associated with the launch of the HMO and PPO laws, as proposed earlier...the slope would be even STEEPER?!

But the increases LESSENED in severity over time...

What am I missing?

[Gannon]

Wait a minute, that chart is merely 'a percentage of GNP'.

H-m-m-n-n, military spending is in GNP...if that increased suddenly it would make the slope less steep...

From http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/gdp-1950-2009/:

[Gannon]

Any correlations here?

[ccbatson]

Not a new idea as it has been defeated a number of times in the past. Still a horrible idea and here is a clue as to why; anytime a tax is justified as being offset by some other backdoor regulations which merely tax someone else in the chain of events.

[Detroitej72]

Not a new idea as it has been defeated a number of times in the past. Still a horrible idea and here is a clue as to why; anytime a tax is justified as being offset by some other backdoor regulations which merely tax someone else in the chain of events.

For a change, I agree with you on this one.

[ccbatson]

Now open your eyes and see the trend that always follows. Big government involved in business equals disaster.

[rb336]

Let's look at the chart, shall we?




Nope, that first spike came about in 1965.

And what program was established in 1964?

Tick, tock, tick, tock, tick, tock...

oh boy, the cato institute made a chart that doesn't show what you claim it shows.

interesting thing -- the chart almost mirrors charts on aging in the same period. the aging of Americans is the #1 factor in the rise of health care costs.

[jiminnm]

What happened in 1970? Medicare.

In 1970, Congress estimated that Medicare costs in 1990 would be about $12 billion/year. Actual costs in 1990 were above $90 billion. Now that's cost containment.