Intellectual conservatism, RIP

**jams** · September-27-09, 07:44 PM

I was once a young neoconservative. The word meant something different then, before it was hijacked by extremists

Read the piece first, then react.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature...ism/index.html

**ZRX Doug** · September-27-09, 08:18 PM

Which article are you talking about? Your link opens to an index page.

Without having read the article, I gotta say that your headline is most likely wishful thinking on the part of Salon.com's [[normally) far-left writers.

**Jimaz** · September-27-09, 10:22 PM

Intellectual conservatism, RIP

**jams** · September-28-09, 07:24 AM

thanks, Jimaz!

**rb336** · September-28-09, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by ZRX Doug

Which article are you talking about? Your link opens to an index page.

Without having read the article, I gotta say that your headline is most likely wishful thinking on the part of Salon.com's [[normally) far-left writers.

are you joking? Salon.com doesn't even come close to "far-left." Michael Lind, self-declared former neo-con included, are very centrist.

the "death of intellectual conservatism" has been trumpeted before -- by the likes of AuH2O and Buckley [[Buckley, far more even-toned than his modern counterparts, nevertheless often reduced his arguments to the same ad-hominem attacks and other argumentative falacies on which they rely)

ccbatson · September-28-09, 10:15 AM

If neo-con means socialist/collectivist conservatism, then yes, I hope it is dead. A resurgent, limited government/quasi libertarian brand of conservatism would be most welcome and successful.

**ZRX Doug** · September-28-09, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

are you joking? Salon.com doesn't even come close to "far-left." Michael Lind, self-declared former neo-con included, are very centrist.

the "death of intellectual conservatism" has been trumpeted before -- by the likes of AuH2O and Buckley [[Buckley, far more even-toned than his modern counterparts, nevertheless often reduced his arguments to the same ad-hominem attacks and other argumentative falacies on which they rely)

I'm sorry, I was gonna respond to this post..but I keep getting to the "Salon.com doesn't even come close to "far-left." part and spewing coffee out my nose from the uncontrollable laughter..since I can't justify the expense of another keyboard, I'll pass.

**jams** · September-28-09, 07:00 PM

Love how some have an opinion of a piece without even reading it, especially ironic on a thread entitled "

Intellectual conservatism, RIP"

**Jimaz** · September-28-09, 08:48 PM

"Read the piece first, then react."

Another is found in a May 10 blog post by Richard Posner: "My theme is the intellectual decline of conservatism, and it is notable that the policies of the new conservatism are powered largely by emotion and religion and have for the most part weak intellectual groundings. That the policies are weak in conception, have largely failed in execution, and are political flops is therefore unsurprising ... By the fall of 2008, the face of the Republican Party had become Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber. Conservative intellectuals had no party."

I read this as sympathetic to genuine conservativism. That anti-intellectual opportunists have undermined their own party's former success shows just why they're currently and continuingly in decline. They're eagerly marching backward, unaware that they've been unwittingly navigating forward via their rear-view mirrors.

**jams** · September-28-09, 09:43 PM

Despite my liberal credentials, I very much enjoy the point of view of, as you term it, genuine conservatives, but the knee-jerk reactionaries that have claimed that they are the "true" conservatives I find are mostly buffoons.

**Detroitej72** · September-28-09, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by jams

but the knee-jerk reactionaries that have claimed that they are the "true" conservatives I find are mostly buffoons.

Glen Beck, Ann Coulter, Mark Lavin and Mikey Savage are the first names that come to mind, all irrational, all shoot from the hip, knee-jerk reactionaries and all very dangerous to our fair country.

ccbatson · September-29-09, 07:13 PM

Nope, the folks you are after are the spend crazy conservatives...none of the folks on that list qualify.

**gibran** · September-29-09, 08:32 PM

Ledeen, Wolfowitz, Perle, Kristal et al..may be bright but smart they are not...they have already proved that intelligence, blind power and dual loyality is not smart. Ideologs at best [[new world order junkies)...they loyality is to their form of order not what is good for America. They all can slink back into thier think tanks and plan the next war against Iran...

" if there is a shooting war against Iran" these guys were the behind the seeds men, just like Iraq..only this time it will not go as smooth.

ccbatson · September-30-09, 12:02 AM

With Obama as President, Iran will be his baby....do you think he is influenced by the folks you mention in any way, shape, or form?

**ZRX Doug** · September-30-09, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by jams

Love how some have an opinion of a piece without even reading it, especially ironic on a thread entitled "

Intellectual conservatism, RIP"

I haven't posted a reaction to the story yet..rest assured, I will once I get around to reading it.
My reaction [[keyboard is still soggy) was to rb336's assertation that Salon.com is not left-leaning..that one still cracks me up.

**ejames01** · September-30-09, 08:32 AM

It was posted 4 days ago!!!

Originally Posted by ZRX Doug

I haven't posted a reaction to the story yet..rest assured, I will once I get around to reading it.
My reaction [[keyboard is still soggy) was to rb336's assertation that Salon.com is not left-leaning..that one still cracks me up.

**elganned** · September-30-09, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

With Obama as President, Iran will be his baby....do you think he is influenced by the folks you mention in any way, shape, or form?

Why do you even bring this up? It's apropos of nothing that has gone before.

**ZRX Doug** · September-30-09, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by ejames01

It was posted 4 days ago!!!

Oh shit, are we being graded on time taken to finish?
The instructor failed to make note of this before handing out the exam..

**ghettopalmetto** · September-30-09, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by ZRX Doug

Oh shit, are we being graded on time taken to finish?
The instructor failed to make note of this before handing out the exam..

You have time to post knee-jerk reactions to every thread on the Non-Detroit side of the board.

I'm jus sayin.

**gibran** · September-30-09, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

With Obama as President, Iran will be his baby....do you think he is influenced by the folks you mention in any way, shape, or form?

I hope not, but they are actively pressuring the talking heads, and other media types [[especially Ledeen) and lobby groups AIPAC and other ultra-conservative think tanks ... and have a direct influence on policy makers and our congress.

**Detroitej72** · September-30-09, 10:58 PM

Intellectual conservatism, RIP

Since the current face of the conservative movement[[ Rush, Beck, Coulter, Hannity, Levine, Ingram, Savage, etc.) are nothing more than a bunch of irrational, lying celebrity folks who are more interested in maintaining their bank accounts and ratings on their tabloid shows, it is safe to say that yes, intellectual conservatism is dead.

R.I.P. Intellectuals on the right, always remember that it was your own wing who sold you out and buried your dead.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-01-09, 12:46 AM

Geez CC, you mean to say there are actually 'spend crazy conservatives'? Who'd a thunk it?

**1KielsonDrive** · October-01-09, 12:47 AM

BTW CC, that's the most brilliant observation you've made in the entire time I've known you. And it all came about in one sentence. Wow!

ccbatson · October-01-09, 04:24 PM

Which observation are you referring to?

**ZRX Doug** · October-01-09, 10:17 PM

Okay, read it. Flatly disagree, and feel the author writes from the viewpoint of an elitist rather than a realist.
Intellectual conservatism dead?
Tell that to Thomas Sowell.
Tell it to the Mark Levin who wrote "Liberty and Tyranny" rather than his alter-ego making the shrill pitch on AM radio.
It ain't dead..it's been overshadowed by "neo-cons" for a few decades, but it's coming back.
Look for a return to constitutional conservatism after the '10 elections..