I am NOT against preservation!

[Ray1936]

The many threads about Tiger Stadium -- and comments I've made, like "tear that **** down" -- had me thinking about preservation of the past. First, I want to clearly state that I am absolutely in favor of maintaining buildings and artifacts of years gone by. I've become an avid history buff in my later years, and recognize the need for their preservation when possible and practical.

Practicality did not exist with Tiger Stadium. It was a tired structure, badly in need of serious repair, and not condusive to any use other than a sports arena. Comerica Park is an excellent replacement for he old ball park, thus I cry not. Sure, I have memories there....hell, I go back to the Hank Greenberg days when Harry Heilmann was the radio announcer. But in the case of Bennett Park/Navin Field/Briggs Stadium/Tiger Stadium, there was no practical use to maintain he structure once Comerica Park opened. Thus, begone.

For an "old" building to continue its life, it MUST be maintained. If it is not maintained, it begins to crumble and deterioriate. I could use MCS as an example, but I'll use a newer one. Detroit Police Headquarters at 1300 Beaubien, built in 1921, was a beautiful, Kahn-built structure. Beginning about 1960, I could see it beginning to fall apart. The city did not maintain it at all. Ah, they swept the floors and emptied the trash [[occasionally), but there was no system in place of regular preventative maintenance. I put the blame for most of that on the high ranking police administrators, from Edward Piggins on down to Bill Hart and whatever clowns they have running the place today. The plumbing leaks like a seive, the sewers are constantly plugged, and the steam heat is erratic. The fifty or so window air conditioners in the building cost more in electricity in one summer than it would be to install central air.

Anyway, 1300 Beaubien within 50 years will fall if it doesn't fall apart on its own. That's just one example.

Some of the Victorian buildings along Michigan and Grand River and Gratiot are excellent examples of period architecture. As they are in private hands, I can only hope that the current owners treat them as the treasure of the past that they are. A great example is that triangular building right next to Tiger Stadium at Michigan and Cochrane.

Small towns in Michigan are rich in buildings from the 1800s. Drive down the main drags in Milford, or South Lyon, or Kalkaska and I'll guarantee you'll see buildings with "1874" proudly displayed on the cornice. I hope these buildings are around for hundreds of years to come....but they've got to have good maintenance.

Nope, I love "old". I love America's heritage. But Tiger Stadium received its deserved fate.

[detourdetroit]

some good points, and the idea of maintenance as something we don't really do very well is right on, but using Tiger Stadium in this regard is plain wrong.

In a sense you're right, it was functionally obsolete in terms of MLB in Detroit. Yes, Tiger Stadium was replaced by Comerica, a much better alternative than what was planned in the 1970s. Putting aside the feasibility of a plan like the Cochrane plan to retrofit Tiger Stadium and bring it into the 21st century - similar in spirit to what happened of late to the similarly aged Fenway - the idea that Tiger Stadium wasn't maintained doesn't really jibe with the idea that it had no practicable use in the future.

One, is there any official analysis to suggest that Tiger Stadium suffered structural deficit? Two, by assuming that the stadium hadn't been properly maintained you also seem to indicate that any potential rehab or redevelopment wouldn't be capable of addressing the deferred maintenance. Inherent in the rehab process is the necessary fact that old structures get painted, new roofs, systems, etc. Third, the proposed Bennet Plan had a reduced, more manageable structure, making its possibility for success significantly more attainable. In fact, hundreds of thousands in donations, a $4 mil federal grant, and over $10 mil in historic tax credits were coming together to make the project a reality.

What deep-sixed Tiger Stadium was the petty politics of a Detroit "development" culture that never believed in the project or the players and wanted to assert its way to the detriment of the city.

[szla]

Not to start the whole Tiger Stadium debate over but.... My brother was a high school baseball coach in a northern suburb. I had talked to him about the plans that the conservancy had put together and he went to the website. He felt and I also felt that this would have been a tremendous draw for amateur baseball throughout the region. Coaches would have died to play on the field with their teams. High school, AAU, Federation ball, they all would have wanted to play. It would have brought hundreds of thousands of people to that part of town each year all on tourist lite expeditions. It looked so cool with the original configuration [[first to third). It would have worked.

[sumas]

My gut feeling is that some portion of the stadium should have been preserved. Since Pingree, the mayor at the turn of the last century, our so called leaders lack vision.

White/Black, it makes no difference. Tear down the old, build a new building and put your name on it. What they don't understand is that within this culture of ignorance, that if a new/old building stands, the names of people to be honored will change. Parks/streets have received the same disregard for history.

Up and until Detroit recognizes it fabulous history, we will remain a small town with small minds.

[sirrealone]

What Ray is referring to is forward thinking, which is so lacking when it comes to things like building maintenance. This is true in the public and private sector.

I've always thought that when a building is built or renovated, part of the funding should include a fund that is established for future repairs and renovations. Because, let's face it, all buildings need work, whether it's a home, a retail store, or a skyscraper.

Too often, a building gets put up or renovated, and it looks great, but then that's it. Period. It looks great when it opens, but it will never look that good again. When I went to college in the early 90's, they were in the midst of renovating most of the buildings, and they looked great. When I went back 10 years later, they looked the same. Nothing had been re-painted, re-carpeted, and leaks were just patched because no money had been set aside for anything after the major construction.

The same thing applies to any homeowner. I purchased a home two years ago. I'm already setting money aside because someday I know that I'll need a new roof, replacement windows. Someday the driveway will wear out. How many people, how many businesses, how many governments actually plan past the initial purchase? This is where we so often go wrong.

What if 5-10% of building costs weren't actually spent, but set aside for repairs / maintenance / renovations? What if 1% of revenue for buildings that generate revenue was set aside for upkeep? That way, when the pipes burst or the windows break or the carpet is threadbare, it's not a bunch of people staring at each other wondering how to come up with the money to fix it, and then not doing anything about it, letting the building fall into neglect.

This isn't about Tiger Stadium. We can't bring that back. This is about the buildings we have and want to keep. How do we keep them? I applaud Ray for pointing out the first step, and that's having a little forward thinking before the buildings fall apart. Imagine the thought.

[Trainman]

What Ray is referring to is forward thinking, which is so lacking when it comes to things like building maintenance. This is true in the public and private sector.

This isn't about Tiger Stadium. We can't bring that back. This is about the buildings we have and want to keep. How do we keep them? I applaud Ray for pointing out the first step, and that's having a little forward thinking before the buildings fall apart. Imagine the thought.

Unless the majority votes NO next August 2010 to defeat the SMART Property tax renewal, the Michigan Department of Transportation will add 25 miles of NEW freeway lanes with over $400 Million to match federal funds. This plan is off the shelf and in concrete. This plan has already cost Livonia and Detroit bus service and will cause even more bus service reductions, higher taxes, more sprawl AND more abandoned buildings as we all drive to our big homes in the outer suburbs and to the big parking lots around downtown Detroit and in other places.

So, please support Operation Bring Back SMART to Livonia and Southeast Michigan in Trainman's save... in DETROIT LINKS.

Let your leaders and our Governor know you want them to stop the bulldozing of Detroit, today by letting them know about my website.

And let SMART know about my website too. If SMART and DDOT can't help us fight the freeway expansions by filling up buses then maybe someone on DY has a better idea?

[NoHeartAnthony]

I applaud you for that one Trainman. Usually your responses are to posts that have something vaguely referencing roads or public transportation, but this is a new level for you.

[Gistok]

What deep-sixed Tiger Stadium was the petty politics of a Detroit "development" culture that never believed in the project or the players and wanted to assert its way to the detriment of the city.

Good point Detourdetroit... I'm sure that Mike Ilitch also didn't want any competition [[outdoor concerts, etc.) that a reduced Tiger Stadium could provide.

When the NYC Metropolitan Opera moved from the old ornate 1883 built Opera House to Lincoln Center in the 1960s, they opposed every attempt at saving the old opera house, because they were afraid it would compete with Lincoln Center. So sadly... eventually it was pounded to rubble.

This same scenario plays itself out over and over again throughout America.

[softailrider]

Towards the end Tiger stadium was terrible, the place was falling apart. There was very little done in terms of upkeep, only enought to keep the stadium running. However, to me, It was a way better place to watch a baseball game then Comerica Park. I don't care that there were obstructed views in front of a lot of the seating or the bathroomes were outdated or the concessions weren't up to snuff. The entire baseball experience was far superior. Comerica Park does not compare. I'll never forget the electricity of 1968 or 1984, I'm sure not feeling the same thing this year.