MDOT reduces lanes on I-375 boulevard plans after community feedback

[Scottathew]

I wonder if they've thought this through?

They have. They don't want a wide-ass road.

If the road has congestion, people will take other routes. This is the opposite of induced demand. They're making road less of a super-highway and into a normal arterial street.

[mwilbert]

"Please, do us all a favor and explain to us why the Lodge was ever necessary."

If you lived on the northwest side and worked downtown, you wouldn't ask that question. I can't even begin to estimate my numbers of hours and miles on it. No way Grand River would have handled it.

Also, the Jeffries/I-96 is more aligned with Grand River. There
was/is no good alternative route in the direction of Northland/Southfield. Woodward is much farther east, Grand River is too far west. I think you could make an argument that if the city fathers had been able to foresee the results of suburbanization, they might not have wanted to build the Lodge, but it clearly was filling a gap in road network.

[Meddle]

Didn't it originally stop at 8 Mile and Northwestern was added later? I seem to remember NW Hwy being a boulevard like Telegraph.

East Side had Gratiot and Mound

West had Michigan and Grand River.

The Lodge filled a major void in the 60s, but still drew a lot of surface traffic to get to it. We had to run Puritan from Greenfield to Meyers to enter.

If I timed it right, I could run Grand River most of the way downtown with few stops when the center lane was in use. 5 or 10 minutes either way meant stop and go, stop and go, stop and go.

[Rocket]

—it is horrifying how y’all are questioning whether they thought this through.. of course they thought it through, models were done and models were verified.

Well, some of us have seen the bike lanes they installed on Woodward in Ferndale, the Q-Line and other transportatin ideas and we know the city planners / road commissions etc are far from infallible. And of course models are only as good as the parameters the planners put into them, which is why 100% of climate models are dead wrong.

and the Lodge are unnecessary and should have never been built.

The Lodge is VERY necessary. All that Southfield, Farmington, Bloomfield, West Bloomfield, and Pontiac traffic is supposed to go up and down Woodward? With it's [in places] 2 lanes and 30 mph speed limit? Yikes!

I travel the Lodge often. At rush hour it's packed. When it was closed for construction it was a disaster here.

[Meddle]

The Lodge is VERY necessary. All that Southfield, Farmington, Bloomfield, West Bloomfield, and Pontiac traffic ...

That's why some think it was a mistake. It helped urban sprawl out of the city to the northwest. It helped people get to Northland to shop instead of downtown. Farmington Hills and West Bloomfield might not be what they became without the Lodge.

[canuck]

Well, some of us have seen the bike lanes they installed on Woodward in Ferndale, the Q-Line and other transportatin ideas and we know the city planners / road commissions etc are far from infallible. And of course models are only as good as the parameters the planners put into them, which is why 100% of climate models are dead wrong.

Did you run those numbers through your super quantum computer there, Rocket?

If only these dumb woke elite scientists had down to earth people like you to set the parameters, double check the data, yadda yadda…

[Jimaz]

... 100% of climate models are dead wrong....

If anyone is trying to model the climate of I-375, I'd have to agree. But I doubt anyone is doing that.

Could I interest you in a hair extinguisher?

[Gistok]

Anyone who thought that the Lodge should have never been built is not well versed in Detroit road history. A large part of it already existed as a parkway before converted to freeway in the 1950s.

James Couzens Hwy in the 1930s... Northwestern Hwy came a little later.

[Kraktovious]

Yeah no. Black bottom was a culturally rich neighborhood that belonged to black Detroiters and was the place in Detroit you could go to enjoy black culture.
In case you haven't noticed. Detroit is NOT by any means shy of black cultural influence.
There is already many thriving African American communities in Detroit, maybe some "other" culture could come in we could enjoy.

[rbdetsport]

Well, some of us have seen the bike lanes they installed on Woodward in Ferndale, the Q-Line and other transportatin ideas and we know the city planners / road commissions etc are far from infallible. And of course models are only as good as the parameters the planners put into them, which is why 100% of climate models are dead wrong.



The Lodge is VERY necessary. All that Southfield, Farmington, Bloomfield, West Bloomfield, and Pontiac traffic is supposed to go up and down Woodward? With it's [in places] 2 lanes and 30 mph speed limit? Yikes!

I travel the Lodge often. At rush hour it's packed. When it was closed for construction it was a disaster here.

I hate to tell you this, but an urban planner and a road commissioner are VERY different people [[yet you’re conflating the two of them as the same). Urban planners have made plenty of mistakes since the beginnings of the profession in the early 20th century [[no, a professionalized version of urban planning did not exist before then), but the debacle that is the bike lanes in Ferndale on Woodward and the QLine can HARDLY be blamed on urban planners.

Urban planners have no teeth or power, they only have suggestions and expertise. The dumbed down, parking-favoring bike lanes of Ferndale did not come from an urban planner—they came from civil engineers at MDOT who think they know how to build multimodal infrastructure [[when they do not). Departments of transportation around the country lack that talent, and they lack the will to do so anyways.

The QLine… oh boy oh boy…. We got a side-running, mixed-in-traffic streetcar over a center-running light rail line against the will of any and all transportation experts—because Dan Gilbert wanted his toy streetcar and read one single research study that showed the economic value of side-running streetcars. So no, urban planners deserve zero blame for that one.

Meddle and Canuck carry the rest of my sentiment. It was a mistake to build a region built entirely around the automobile, full stop. If you want a Southfield that is connected via a metro line from downtown via Dexter/etc. then sure. But the existing development patterns WERE THE INPUTS that you speak of. And now you’re bound to those inputs. You are totally correct that in transportation modeling, the inputs matter and can be biased. I have published articles on this exact point. However, the I-375 model is a comparison model. The original design was done based on a model, and the new design was done based on the same model but with different [[lower) traffic volume inputs based on real-world data.

My last point is probably the one I want to be loudest… the idea that congestion and traffic are this horrible thing, and that it is unique to these particular roads.. or that the congestion would be worse if these roads simply were never built is laughable [[and sad). Every single viable region in the entire world have congestion, and it is a sign of economic prosperity and viability. Detroit is not even close to the top of the list in-terms of congestion in this country.. it’s because we choose to develop and plan in the same unsustainable pattern, doing the same thing over and over again. Detroit has been doing this since the 1950s… what does every decade have in common since then? The population losses over time, and the lack of growth and prosperity in common with much of the rest of the country. The region is ass backwards and all you are saying is.. we should keep doing it the way we always have been doing it.

And it is this reason why I am also shocked by Gistok’s words on this topic… the idea that we should be historic preservationists but at the same time be supportive of these massive freeways and the dollars we spend on them is so beyond counterintuitive and lacks logic. We destroyed our historic and thriving cities for this very transportation system. The only way historic preservation works is when we choose to do something differently since these building fell into disrepair in the first place.

[Rocket]

.... an urban planner and a road commissioner are VERY different people. Urban planners have made plenty of mistakes since the beginnings of the profession.................. but the debacle that is the bike lanes in Ferndale on Woodward and the QLine can HARDLY be blamed on urban planners.

Urban planners have no teeth or power, they only have suggestions and expertise. The dumbed down, parking-favoring bike lanes of Ferndale did not come from an urban planner—they came from civil engineers at MDOT who think they know how to build multimodal infrastructure [[when they do not). Departments of transportation around the country lack that talent, and they lack the will to do so anyways.

The QLine… oh boy oh boy….

Aah, understood.

My last point is probably the one I want to be loudest… the idea that congestion and traffic are this horrible thing, and that it is unique to these particular roads.. or that the congestion would be worse if these roads simply were never built is laughable [[and sad). Every single viable region in the entire world have congestion, and it is a sign of economic prosperity and viability. Detroit is not even close to the top of the list in-terms of congestion in this country.. it’s because we choose to develop and plan in the same unsustainable pattern, doing the same thing over and over again. Detroit has been doing this since the 1950s… what does every decade have in common since then? The population losses over time, and the lack of growth and prosperity in common with much of the rest of the country. The region is ass backwards and all you are saying is.. we should keep doing it the way we always have been doing it.

We destroyed our historic and thriving cities for this very transportation system.

Yeah, congestion seems to even itself out. The less congestion there is, the further out people can live, and hence more congestion. Most are desperate to escape the city, with it's small or non existent yards, high taxes, high crime and record worst schools. But there's a breaking point in commute time. The further out you go the better life is,.. but the longer the commute. So everyone chooses their squeal point.

I don't think for a minute that transportation is the reason Detroit went downhill. And the idea that we should not improve freeways as a way to imprison people in the city is a terrible idea that wouldn't have worked out. If the movers and shakers that employ the masses, build factories, and rehab deserted building had to choose between 2 hour commutes and living in the city, they'd simply move to a different metro area/state and do their thing there. And Detroit would be FAR worse off economically than it is.

In my opinion, the downward slide of Detroit had more to do with Coleman Young, the riots, and demographic change than it does The Lodge making it easy for people to live in the burbs. If you live in Southfield or Farmington and have a business in Detroit, you still pay 1/2 personal city income tax, all of corp income tax, all of business property tax, and you of course employ Detroiters.

[Satiricalivory]

I don't think for a minute that transportation is the reason Detroit went downhill. And the idea that we should not improve freeways as a way to imprison people in the city is a terrible idea

Highways are a sprawl subsidy and literally the reason excessive suburban sprawl exists. This is not debatable, it could not have happened without their construction. And that occurred all over the country.

If anything it was the opposite, US policy forced people into sprawl whether they liked it or not. Their city neighborhoods were redlined and banned from lending. People could not move in if they wanted to. Your logic is totally backwards.

[Rocket]

Highways are a sprawl subsidy and literally the reason excessive suburban sprawl exists. This is not debatable, it could not have happened without their construction. And that occurred all over the country.

You say that as if sprawl is a bad thing. I take it that you believe everyone should have to live on top of each-other in boxes in the sky and take public transportation everywhere?

If anything it was the opposite, US policy forced people into sprawl whether they liked it or not. Their city neighborhoods were redlined and banned from lending. People could not move in if they wanted to. Your logic is totally backwards.

That doesn't make any sense.

[Satiricalivory]

You say that as if sprawl is a bad thing.

LOL you're hopeless, nevermind dude. Stay in la la land.

[stasu1213]

Millions is being spent on committee members salaries while they take their times getting this project started

[royce]

MDOT and the City of Detroit will hold another meeting regarding the I-375 Reconnecting Communities Project. It will be held Thursday, June 26, 2025 at Detroit Edison Public School Academy [[DEPSA) cafeteria Wilkins Street and St. Aubin, Detroit. Doors open at 5:30 pm and a presentation begins at 6:00 pm. Refreshments will be served. This might be the last public forum before they start construction this year. I will definitely be there.

[royce]

The I-375 meeting is actually called the "I-375 Neighborhood Framework." The meeting is through the City of Detroit but MDOT will be there. The school Detroit Edison Public School Academy is located at 1903 Wilkins, Detroit. It will be in the K-8 Cafetorium. Time 5:30-7:30 pm.

[expatriate]

Curious as which streets are pictured in this 1930s [[?) photo. Had the highway already demolished the houses in the Boston Edison neighborhood, Highland Park, etc. or did they go to accommodate the Lodge?

[royce]

Curious as which streets are pictured in this 1930s [[?) photo. Had the highway already demolished the houses in the Boston Edison neighborhood, Highland Park, etc. or did they go to accommodate the Lodge?

James Couzens/Northwestern Hwy starts at Wyoming heading northwest, so if this picture starts at Wyoming you would see streets like Meyers, Shaefer, Outer Drive, Greenfield, Southfield, McNichols, Seven Mile, Eight Mile and beyond. The Lodge would begin east of Wyoming, so that's not seen and that part of the freeway didn't exist when this picture was taken anyway.

[Airforceguy]

MDOT moving ahead with I-375 reconstruction amid project's mixed reception

State transportation officials are moving forward with a long-planned $300 million reconstruction of Interstate 375 in Detroit, despite a range of concerns, including its four-year construction timeline, how it could impact local businesses and if it does enough to heal past racial harms.


MDOT plans to begin work later this year on reconstructing the mile-long sunken freeway, which connects Jefferson Avenue and Interstate 75, into a four-lane, street-level boulevard lined with businesses, houses and open space. Plans for the earliest stages of work include constructing a drainage system for the new road, which will happen on Sweitzer Place south of Jefferson Avenue. The agency has to start the work before 2026, under a grant agreement for federal funds received for the project from former President Joe Biden's infrastructure package.


The reconstruction is also expected to free up 30 acres of land currently owned by MDOT because the street-level roadway will be narrower than the freeway.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...n/84027442007/

[royce]

I was at the meeting. Many people were tired of the format that was the basis for the previous meetings, where people wrote down their desires for what they wanted to see built on the available land. People who want reparations for the land taken from African Americans were very vocal about addressing this issue. They were directed to talk to one of the city representatives to address there concerns.

Many of the suggestions from previous meetings regarding what to do with the new available land overwhelmingly suggested placing mixed-use development on that land, basically calling for apartments/condos on upper floors of buildings with ground floor retail. This is what I have been advocating at all of the meetings that I have attended, so that was a nice development. However, here's the kicker: no street parking will abut these mixed-use developments according to MDOT renderings and representatives. When I asked a MDOT rep about this, he simply suggested that people use the available parking lots or parking decks in the area. When I asked about underground parking, he said that it would be too cost prohibitive. At that point I could only imagine this boulevard looking like Michigan Avenue in Dearborn's Westborn area.

Needless to say, I am very disappointed, but not surprised. I have said this before about MDOT, "They are the most incompetent department in the state of Michigan. They find a way to drop the ball on so many occasions. Remember the median down Livernois that nobody wanted? And have you seen the bikes lanes on Woodward in Ferndale. That's MDOT's doing. I envision that this whole I-375 project will only be partially successful. On the one hand you get rid of a freeway that is no longer needed, but development beyond that point will either take years to happen, partially happen, poorly happen, or never happen. I'm done.

[Zacha341]

^ Hello Royce! Nice to see hear from you ......

[EASTSIDER BALDUCK]

I was at the meeting. Many people were tired of the format that was the basis for the previous meetings, where people wrote down their desires for what they wanted to see built on the available land. People who want reparations for the land taken from African Americans were very vocal about addressing this issue. They were directed to talk to one of the city representatives to address there concerns.

Many of the suggestions from previous meetings regarding what to do with the new available land overwhelmingly suggested placing mixed-use development on that land, basically calling for apartments/condos on upper floors of buildings with ground floor retail. This is what I have been advocating at all of the meetings that I have attended, so that was a nice development. However, here's the kicker: no street parking will abut these mixed-use developments according to MDOT renderings and representatives. When I asked a MDOT rep about this, he simply suggested that people use the available parking lots or parking decks in the area. When I asked about underground parking, he said that it would be too cost prohibitive. At that point I could only imagine this boulevard looking like Michigan Avenue in Dearborn's Westborn area.

Needless to say, I am very disappointed, but not surprised. I have said this before about MDOT, "They are the most incompetent department in the state of Michigan. They find a way to drop the ball on so many occasions. Remember the median down Livernois that nobody wanted? And have you seen the bikes lanes on Woodward in Ferndale. That's MDOT's doing. I envision that this whole I-375 project will only be partially successful. On the one hand you get rid of a freeway that is no longer needed, but development beyond that point will either take years to happen, partially happen, poorly happen, or never happen. I'm done.

Well said.
Sad, but true.

History to repeat itself here. When 375 got planned/approved and funded.

Complete crap.

[Rocket]

here's the kicker: no street parking will abut these mixed-use developments according to MDOT renderings and representatives. When I asked a MDOT rep about this, he simply suggested that people use the available parking lots or parking decks in the area. When I asked about underground parking, he said that it would be too cost prohibitive.


"They are the most incompetent department in the state of Michigan. They find a way to drop the ball on so many occasions. Remember the median down Livernois that nobody wanted? And have you seen the bikes lanes on Woodward in Ferndale.

Yep.

He doesn't realize that bringing in 100,000 dump truck loads of dirt to fill in the area for little to no economic gain is also considered cost prohibitive.

I think they just hold those meetings so they can "say" they had community input. The few times I have been involved in one I never saw community input change what they had already planned.

I totally agree. Store fronts rarely survive without street parking. A customer must really, really need to go into a shop to park on another block in a parking garage first and walk.

I've only done it few times in the last 20 years. A vacuum repair place, a print shop and the symphony. Otherwise I just go to R.O or Mad Heights to get what I need.

[Zacha341]

Unless you're in New York City or Chicago I suppose and we ain't either.

...Store fronts rarely survive without street parking. A customer must really, really need to go into a shop to park on another block in a parking garage first and walk.