Buyers are financing autos 7+ years

**Henry Whalley** · May-09-25, 08:01 PM

6282ba18a5392701cbbb45a55e1083b0 [[1200×800)

Farley should get a big-boy haircut or join the Beatles.

**Vic01** · May-10-25, 02:34 AM

I thought that this had been going on for several years already, and that some more costly models had recently become 8 year loans. Crazy...

**Zacha341** · May-10-25, 04:32 AM

It's out of control! Even for base models. Car/ truck notes averaging well over $1000+/ 84 Months+/ High Financing...

What's worse is insurance and maintenance is not factored and many new cars [replete of weak 'turbo'd' engines, more plastic components and rubber-band CVT transmissions, recalls] age poorly!

Repossessions: Boom-time for the bounty hunters of steel.....

**Cincinnati_Kid** · May-10-25, 08:21 AM

No way! Some of these amounts are ridiculous.

**Rocket** · May-10-25, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

No way! Some of these amounts are ridiculous.

Yep, the prices are ridiculous, but so are people's perceived "needs" in a vehicle.

Office worker buys an F150 King Ranch for $78,000. In my head I think,.. why not a new Sonata. A very nice car actually. It drives better, and the SEL trim has all the stuff you need and even much of stuff you'd want, and it's $29k. On a 72 month with zero down it's $450 a mo. [V.s. $1,270 for that F150]

$2k down on a 5 year it's still $500 a month. [V.s. $1,411 for that F150]

Or someone could do the unthinkable, and actually save up money and buy a used car. I buy lease turn-ins for 60 - 65% of new, then drive them for another 130,000 miles. In that 8 year span it's no trouble to sock away 2,500 a year so that in 7-8 years I can repeat the process.

Sure it takes a hint of discipline, but it's better than paying stupid tax. It's not just the payments, but the insurance too. If you don't have any financial discipline you probably also have skaky credit. That credit score along with the new and expensive vehicle and living in Wayne County means you're going to have a massive insurance payment also. $300+ a month insurance isn't unusual these days.

**canuck** · May-10-25, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Rocket

Yep, the prices are ridiculous, but so are people's perceived "needs" in a vehicle.

Office worker buys an F150 King Ranch for $78,000. In my head I think,.. why not a new Sonata. A very nice car actually. It drives better, and the SEL trim has all the stuff you need and even much of stuff you'd want, and it's $29k. On a 72 month with zero down it's $450 a mo. [V.s. $1,270 for that F150]

$2k down on a 5 year it's still $500 a month. [V.s. $1,411 for that F150]

Or someone could do the unthinkable, and actually save up money and buy a used car. I buy lease turn-ins for 60 - 65% of new, then drive them for another 130,000 miles. In that 8 year span it's no trouble to sock away 2,500 a year so that in 7-8 years I can repeat the process.

Sure it takes a hint of discipline, but it's better than paying stupid tax. It's not just the payments, but the insurance too. If you don't have any financial discipline you probably also have skaky credit. That credit score along with the new and expensive vehicle and living in Wayne County means you're going to have a massive insurance payment also. $300+ a month insurance isn't unusual these days.

Those are some things we can agree on, wholeheartedly.

**ABetterDetroit** · May-10-25, 03:37 PM

Gotta love Irony. When the folks who don’t have money often criticize the people that do have it and how they spend it, then turn around and want someone who brags constantly about their wealth to run the show.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZMiKAMs3qqI

**Jimaz** · May-10-25, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

...brags constantly about their wealth....

At some point it becomes too much of a struggle to avoid using the term "gaudy."

Ostentatiousness is the unwitting confession that one has yet to arrive.

**Rocket** · May-10-25, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

At some point it becomes too much of a struggle to avoid using the term "gaudy."

Ostentatiousness is the unwitting confession that one has yet to arrive.

The individual you two are clearly so jealous of happens to own 3 Sikorsky helicopters [$3M each, and $5k and hour to operate], and a multiple private jets, one of which is a Boeing 757 with the rare Rolls Royce engines! Cost to fly that is about $20k an hour.

If you have your own Boeing 757, you HAVE arrived.

Yeah, the gold fixation is gaudy. I've seen worse, but usually in an Arabic country.

Brand name fashions is how I spot poor people pretending to be middle class. LV handbag? It means they're BROKE!

**Vic01** · May-11-25, 03:56 PM

Maybe we should stick to cars and not get off into who's jet is bigger [[in cost) than the other guys

**ABetterDetroit** · May-11-25, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Rocket

The individual you two are clearly so jealous of happens to own 3 Sikorsky helicopters [$3M each, and $5k and hour to operate], and a multiple private jets, one of which is a Boeing 757 with the rare Rolls Royce engines! Cost to fly that is about $20k an hour.

If you have your own Boeing 757, you HAVE arrived.

Yeah, the gold fixation is gaudy. I've seen worse, but usually in an Arabic country.

Brand name fashions is how I spot poor people pretending to be middle class. LV handbag? It means they're BROKE!

LMFAO!

We are ‘jealous’ and you drone on in many threads about cars and what? Handbags people can’t afford? [Sorry I know nothing about purses I am not female] Anyways, people you don’t know at all but you judge whether they can afford them or not.

Like that is the very definition of Jealousy, you are it for Christ's sake.

Yep, that is Exactly the IRONY. The love and admiration for a member of the lucky sperm club who inherited 4000 apartments in NYC. But… But, he owns a Jet! and Helicopters! and doesn’t pay taxes!!! He “has arrived!” Meanwhile you drive used Sonatas for 8 years and get yourself all bent out of shape by people who you see through the windows that drive brand new 80k cars…

You are Hysterical. Do you even know what Jealousy and Irony are? I’m not so sure…

Building and selling as many new cars as possible is good for Detroit’s economy. I hope Ford sells as many F-150s as they can, many are made in Dearborn.

**EASTSIDER BALDUCK** · May-12-25, 11:10 AM

Ain't no-body drives sonatas for 8 years
NObody

**Rocket** · May-12-25, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Anyways, people you don’t know at all but you judge whether they can afford them or not.

Like that is the very definition of Jealousy, you are it for Cxxxt's sake.

Incorrect. I am certainly not jealous of people carrying ugly handbags.

The people that do are pretending to be wealthy. Those who display brand names aren't dong it for the convenience or luxury, but to show off.

LNVH themselves will tell you that nearly their entire customer base is poor and lower middle class.

True wealth is hard to spot. Zuck for instance wears t-shirts most days. They don't have a logo. But those are $300 - $400 t-shirts.

If you see logos all over something, the wearer is desperate to impress you. They are pretending to have more than they really do.

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Yep, that is Exactly the IRONY. The love and admiration for a member of the lucky sperm club who inherited 4000 apartments in NYC. But… But, he owns a Jet! and Helicopters! and doesn’t pay taxes!!! He “has arrived!” Meanwhile you drive used Sonatas for 8 years and get yourself all bent out of shape by people who you see through the windows that drive brand new 80k cars…

Um, no. I hate to see people make terrible financial decisions. That's the difference between you and me. I feel sorry for others and want to help. You mock others and insult them as a way of feeling better about yourself.

The last year we have for Trump taxes is 2005, and he paid 25% of his income in federal taxes alone. I bet that's about 25% more than you paid? Yet you lie and claim that tens of millions in taxes paid = nothing.

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Building and selling as many new cars as possible is good for Detroit’s economy. I hope Ford sells as many F-150s as they can, many are made in Dearborn.

True. And they recently announced 1-2 new F-150 models that will start at $40k. That's a good step. But Federal regulations make it nearly impossible to make affordable cars.

**Zacha341** · May-12-25, 01:55 PM

LOL! Probably will not LAST that long.

A Toyota Camry or Lexus, probably.

Also, most people bore of driving a car that long -- no less paying hefty monthly payment LONG after the new car smell has dissipated.

Most are rolling-over their underwater debts into car after car UNTIL the bank finally puts an end to that - and you're left with bad credit...

Then maybe the 'pull-up-and-grab' [repossession process where they connect device to rear and pull it away] along with all of that!

Originally Posted by EASTSIDER BALDUCK

Ain't no-body drives sonatas for 8 years NObody

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · May-12-25, 03:07 PM

I worked in a bank in the 1980’s, in the trust department, not the retail banking area. I had a coworker whose husband bought a new truck well before paying his current truck off. She actually said to me “the price didn’t matter as long as we could make the payments. After all, we’ll never pay a vehicle off.”

I was beyond appalled. But then again, the longest I ever financed was 36 months for my 1990 Ford Probe. And I paid it off early.

**Rocket** · May-12-25, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

LOL! Probably will not LAST that long.

A Toyota Camry or Lexus, probably.

Also, most people bore of driving a car that long -- no less paying hefty monthly payment LONG after the new car smell has dissipated.

Few cars these days can't make it to 180k. In the past I BOUGHT cars with 170k on them, and drove them for another 60,000 miles.

My suggestion with the Sonata example had been to finance a used car [if you need to] for 5 years let's say, then to drive it for 7 or 8 years. In those last 2-3 years one can save for a sizable down-payment on their next car. This isn;t something that one needs to do with every car they ever own,.. just the first 1-2. Breaking the poverty cycle.

If during those 2-3 years you continued to put the $500 monthly payment into a savings acct, they'd have $12,000 - $18,000 by the 7th or 8th year.

Then they sell the old car for $3k, and they'll be sitting on 15k - 21k to put down on the new one.

Now buy a $35k used car [which means they'll have to borrow $16k], and on a 4 year note you'd have monthly payments of just $370.

Now the fictional person is on their way to financial freedom.

People who think like Balduck does that no one can suffer with luxuries found in a modern Sonatta for an extra 2-3 years is doomed to a life of paycheck to paycheck poverty.

**ABetterDetroit** · May-12-25, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Rocket

The last year we have for Trump taxes is 2005, and he paid 25% of his income in federal taxes alone.

Nothing but garbage BS. Buy the gear, where it proud but why make up stupid lies about the guy? He can do it all by himself. It’s just not necessary to sound like you’re in a cult and drinking the cool-aid. 25% lmao. Anyway, he paid $750 dollars in Federal Income Tax in 2016 while collecting his 400k salary. The guy who leaked the returns was charged as a Felon. God knows the President will never offer his tax returns and it is plainly obvious why.

Back on the cars. I never knew anyone who buys new and keeps it 7 years. I am sure there are exceptions but a lions share of new car buyers buy the payment, lease or buy, whatever works for them and then trade back in for new all over again every 2-4 years. It appears that most car manufacturers see their market that way as well. Many automakers seem to have little to no interest in the lower priced market share. Kia as previously discussed is an exception with more priced point offerings than most.

https://apnews.com/article/tax-retur...f32115e4dc93df

**Rocket** · May-12-25, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

.. but a lions share of new car buyers buy the payment, lease or buy, whatever works for them and then trade back in for new all over again every 2-4 years.

YES. Those are financial fools.

What I was offering up was an ALTERNATIVE plan to being poor all one's life. I thought that was obvious. In fact I stated it more than once.

The banks and elites WANT you in debt all your life, barely scraping by. A classic example is getting a worthless degree so you can pay $300k over the next 30 years paying off $90k in student loans.

But it doesn't have to be that way.

Financing a depreciating "asset" like a car is one of the dumbest things a person can ever do. It "may" be necessary the first 1-2 cars, but if the person is smart, they finance the least possible, which means buying the cheapest thing that will meet their need. After a few cars, hopefully they will be in a position to just pay cash.

Payment isn't important, and really, neither is price. All that matters is the cost per year / per mile to use the car. Depreciation is the biggest expense, then financing costs and insurance. Fuel mileage is almost irrelevant.

The poor don't think about money this way, which is why they're poor. Some are so financially illiterate that they actually think their car is an asset.

**ParisianLesion** · Yesterday, 08:12 AM

It's not all doom and gloom you boomers. Things have been trending this way for decades. People are also spending more on cars because people have increased wealth. Banks are willing to extend loan terms partially because cars last longer than they used to and have higher residual value. It's not unusual for a vehicle to last 200k+ miles. Anecdotal but my last two went 320k and 235k and I still sold them for a few thousand.

**Jimaz** · Yesterday, 08:51 AM

I would like to see bare-bones street-legal kit cars become a popular alternative again — something where all the unnecessary "options" were indeed optional.

That may seem unrealistic but at some point, increasing the cost of a vehicle to include the ever-increasing cost of unwanted features will tip the balance back to making DIY a realistic alternative.

**jiminnm** · Yesterday, 10:09 AM

[QUOTE=ABetterDetroit;648919]
Back on the cars. I never knew anyone who buys new and keeps it 7 years.

Now you will.

My wife and I drive two Infinitis that we bought new. Hers is 14 and mine is 11. We had two Infinitis before that, both bought new. She drove hers 13 years and I drove mine 10 years. Before that, different cars bought new and driven similar times.

**401don** · Yesterday, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

I would like to see bare-bones street-legal kit cars become a popular alternative again — something where all the unnecessary "options" were indeed optional.

That may seem unrealistic but at some point, increasing the cost of a vehicle to include the ever-increasing cost of unwanted features will tip the balance back to making DIY a realistic alternative.

More and more gov't required safety features continues to raise costs and also make that unrealistic.

**Zacha341** · Today, 09:20 AM

Yep. We've done it too. Some cars purchased use and driven for near a decade as well. Changed the sound system in one to give it a bit of 'new' feel. LOL! Car insurance rates in Michigan negate changing out cars too frequently for those adequately assessing their debt to income ratios. Rather than the zero down endless monthly payments scene!

Originally Posted by jiminnm

...My wife and I drive two Infinitis that we bought new. Hers is 14 and mine is 11. We had two Infinitis before that, both bought new. She drove hers 13 years and I drove mine 10 years. Before that, different cars bought new and driven similar times.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · Today, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

More and more gov't required safety features continues to raise costs and also make that unrealistic.

100% Also, new technology such as big screens on the dash that incorporate the controls such as ventilation, audio, and navigation are standard equipment on some cars. All that tech may have to be repaired as vehicles age out. This contributes to the price of vehicles.