Governor Whitmer's Solar Field

**softailrider** · January-04-25, 11:33 AM

I'm sure everybody's heard about this by now. Does this have to get an approval vote - is there anything that can be done in court to stop this?

**Johnnny5** · January-04-25, 02:53 PM

Is it 400 acres of that fired scorched, clearcut, sandy Jack Pine wasteland? If so, I can give this idea a little slack if the financial return is good and the funds are properly used. That said, if they're clearcutting good forestland just to put up solar panels, I'd be questioning those that proposed and signed off on this.

**401don** · January-04-25, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Is it 400 acres of that fired scorched, clearcut, sandy Jack Pine wasteland? If so, I can give this idea a little slack if the financial return is good and the funds are properly used. That said, if they're clearcutting good forestland just to put up solar panels, I'd be questioning those that proposed and signed off on this.

Looks like the ladder. That really is dumb. As the article states, cutting down carbon dioxide eating trees can be a net negative for greenhouse gas emissions.
https://www.mlive.com/environment/20...ate%20official.

**JBMcB** · January-04-25, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

That really is dumb. As the article states, cutting down carbon dioxide eating trees can be a net negative for greenhouse gas emissions.

They just chopped down a few miles of trees in the I-75 median near Grayling. It's unusable land that, I assume, they want to keep clear of vegetation as a fire line. Tons and tons of already clear-cut land available for use. Nope, cut down a bunch more trees.

**Dan Wesson** · January-06-25, 01:50 AM

No old and unused farmland up there is all.

A zillion square feet of land is already destined for them fields of silicon.

Who is more protected The Kirtland Warbler and their patches of scrub Jackpine or stands of mature White and Red Pine,Oaks and Maples.

Actually the State is selling tremendous amount of trees that most Michiganders don’t see.

This sort of thing goes on all the time. Here is an example….

https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/managin...orestry/timber

https://www.dnr.state.mi.us/VMSOnlin...oposalId=22900

400 acres is a drop in the bucket.

It could be acres and acres of those CCC era Red Pines planted row after row too close together that produced stunted pine trees not worth much except to be ground up for particle board and OSB for that big plant in Grayling.

https://upnorthlive.com/news/local/m...ns-in-grayling

Near here, notice bare patches of ground…
https://maps.app.goo.gl/rkW3KS4qayioBqGt5?g_st=ic

https://hayestwpotsegomi.gov/solar/

**JBMcB** · January-06-25, 09:16 AM

My wife made a great point. This is square in the middle of the mid-upper Michigan snow belt. For a good chunk of the winter, there is no sun, and the area is buried under several feet of snow. Our neighbor's place just south of there had two feet of snow a month ago. It might not be the best place for a solar farm.

**MikeM** · January-06-25, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Is it 400 acres of that fired scorched, clearcut, sandy Jack Pine wasteland? If so, I can give this idea a little slack if the financial return is good and the funds are properly used.

Me too. It's adjacent to a private 1100 acre solar farm development approved by the township, as well as a clear cut transmission line corridor.

**mwilbert** · January-06-25, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by MikeM

Me too. It's adjacent to a private 1100 acre solar farm development approved by the township, as well as a clear cut transmission line corridor.

Michigan has 20 million acres of forest. Unless there's something special about this particular patch of forest, I don't think getting worked up about cutting down 400 acres of it makes a lot of sense. Given that there is an adjacent private solar field going in, this is probably a good place to put a solar
farm, at least by Michigan standards. Of course it would be better to put it in Arizona, but it would be hard to get the electrons back here.

**Trumpeteer** · January-06-25, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

Michigan has 20 million acres of forest. Unless there's something special about this particular patch of forest, I don't think getting worked up about cutting down 400 acres of it makes a lot of sense. Given that there is an adjacent private solar field going in, this is probably a good place to put a solar
farm, at least by Michigan standards. Of course it would be better to put it in Arizona, but it would be hard to get the electrons back here.

It's called wheeling.

**Henry Whalley** · January-06-25, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

Nope, cut down a bunch more trees.

When Enbridge Line 5 ruptures those poor trees will be forgotten.

**mwilbert** · January-06-25, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Trumpeteer

It's called wheeling.

It would be called wheeling if there were adequate transmission capacity between here and there, but there isn't. Eventually, we can hope that there will be.

**Jimaz** · January-07-25, 09:37 AM

Community solar gets bipartisan, bi-peninsular support. Big utilities say it’s a bad idea.

...Often, community solar projects are smaller scale farms tucked into the landscape at county airports, landfills and brownfields.

People living nearby can buy panels at the farm. The panels often, but not always, cost a one time fee around $400. That’s much less than the cost of installing panels on an individual rooftop....

**Zacha341** · January-07-25, 10:48 AM

Who's selling us the panels? Local or from China?

**Dan Wesson** · January-07-25, 01:35 PM

And it's gone

https://www.michiganpublic.org/polit...-on-state-land

**ABetterDetroit** · January-07-25, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

And it's gone

https://www.michiganpublic.org/polit...-on-state-land

Politicizing the issue is a sure fire way to take the revenue away from the DNR and get that money into well off private landowner's hands. Now back to the core issue of how to fund the DNR with falling revenue from dwindling fishing and hunting licenses sales. Surely everyone opposed to solar farms will support a new DNR tax so… problem solved!

**Trumpeteer** · January-07-25, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

It would be called wheeling if there were adequate transmission capacity between here and there, but there isn't. Eventually, we can hope that there will be.

And you know that how? It's not true!

**Jimaz** · January-09-25, 07:44 AM

Environmental groups scold “anti-solar” reaction to possible solar build on state land

Two environmental groups said a proposed lease of state land near Gaylord for solar energy development is following the regular public process, and blasted lawmakers {mostly Republican} who voiced outrage over the idea. One group said some of the acreage could be a good fit for solar development....

“There’s been all this squealing and screaming about possibly secret processes,” said Marvin Roberson, a forest ecologist for the Michigan Chapter of the Sierra Club. “This is going through the absolute normal, perfectly correct public input process.”

Republican state representatives Ken Borton of Gaylord and Mike Hoadley of Au Gres, and state Senator Michelle Hoitenga {R-Manton} called for mass firings at the DNR in a press release last week which called the proposed project a DNR plot to destroy forestland....

**takascar** · January-10-25, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Who's selling us the panels? Local or from China?

China, of course.

**takascar** · January-10-25, 05:57 PM

Some farmers along I-94 are making a substantial buck leasing their fields to solar companies. There are a bunch of them around miles 100 - 120.

**mwilbert** · January-10-25, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Trumpeteer

And you know that how? It's not true!

I know that because I have some understanding of the US electrical network. There's very little capacity between the east and west. The eastern and western grids are connected by seven DC transmission lines with a total capacity of around 1.3GW. For comparison, average electrical power consumption in the US is about 450GW.

Of course that varies a lot over the course of the day/year, but you can't expect to transfer more than 0.3% of average electrical usage between east and west, while solar currently accounts for something around 7% of US electrical generation. So yes, there's a huge shortage of inter-regional transmission capacity, and no, you can't send a significant amount of power from Arizona to Michigan.

**birwood** · January-12-25, 01:20 PM

There is a lot of Pro and Con to this project but it appears that no one has been able to answer some of the questions I asked of officials on this project.
1. What will the total construction [[Land Purchase, Land Clearing, Right of Way Agreements, Etc) costs be?
2. What are the estimated long term maintenance costs ?
3. What type of defoliant be used annually to keep vegetation clear of the panels and how toxic will continued use be? Or will the area be clear cut-mowed every few months to keep the panels free of any growth.
4. What is the expected cost recovery of the energy to be produced?
5. What is the total life expectancy of each panel?
6. Given the location, how much electricity will be produced annually as opposed to any of the other nuclear or gas powered plants?
7. What will the replacement cost be to the system after the panels reach their life expectancy?
I'm just curious folks but I think people in state government need to answer these type of questions for the public before proceeding....I'm just curious!

**Rocket** · January-12-25, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by birwood

There is a lot of Pro and Con to this project but it appears that no one has been able to answer some of the questions I asked of officials on this project.

5. What is the total life expectancy of each panel?

I'm just curious folks but I think people in state government need to answer these type of questions for the public before proceeding....I'm just curious!

8. How will the panels be disposed of at the end of their 20 year life? And what is the cost of that expected to be?

And related to #5.

Being as we are in the worst solar zone in the continental U.S. [and the second worst zone for solar on the planet], would the panels last longer? I.E. instead of throwing them in the trash after 18-20 years, would they perhaps last 30?

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Name: nrel-map-solar-annual-GHI-2018.jpg
Views: 127
Size: 65.7 KB

**Jimaz** · January-12-25, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by birwood

... 3. What type of defoliant be used annually to keep vegetation clear of the panels and how toxic will continued use be? Or will the area be clear cut-mowed every few months to keep the panels free of any growth....

I learned of another technique when I encountered a guy inspecting high tension towers that ran through a wooded area. He said they prefer to plant short, aggressive species of ground cover vegetation in the area. That displaces the taller plants and so keeps maintenance costs low.

I thought that was a pretty smart solution. Work with nature and nature will work with you.

Beats trying to herd goats.

**401don** · January-12-25, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

Beats trying to herd goats.

It's not that hard if you hire the right crew:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkQH06SgHJc

**Trumpeteer** · January-13-25, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

I know that because I have some understanding of the US electrical network. There's very little capacity between the east and west. The eastern and western grids are connected by seven DC transmission lines with a total capacity of around 1.3GW. For comparison, average electrical power consumption in the US is about 450GW.

Of course that varies a lot over the course of the day/year, but you can't expect to transfer more than 0.3% of average electrical usage between east and west, while solar currently accounts for something around 7% of US electrical generation. So yes, there's a huge shortage of inter-regional transmission capacity, and no, you can't send a significant amount of power from Arizona to Michigan.

Looks like you've been on Wiki