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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zacha341 View Post
    Too many planning committees and the like for these lanes over-estimated use and interest. This is why it's rare to see a cyclist along Woodward in Ferndale. The concept may have checked-a-box or garnered internet 'likes' and affirmational nods as the great good but the folks-in-the-room but were not pressure-tested against realities.
    My partner lives in Ferndale. I see cyclists everywhere in that city. It takes time for new paths to become the norm for people and their commute. Minimal use now does not mean minimal use in the future as a new road becomes bike friendly. 9-mile didn't always have bike lanes but they are used constantly now in Ferndale.

    All you have to do is look at something like Mo-Go. They never existed and now I see people riding those bikes everywhere in the city. If you give people options for transit there may be a learning curve but eventually they begin to use them.

  2. #77

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    ^Glad to hear of the improvement. Woodward will catch on I suppose for biking. I have an on-going Mo-Go bike membership and in warmer weather peddle about WSU campus for exercise purposes [not transpo]. Nice option and affordable!
    Last edited by Zacha341; January-14-25 at 12:07 PM.

  3. #78

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    Both sides are vested in having/ leveraging power and tending to their [flock] base. Bet!

    At this point it's almost which one will apply power that does the most damage!

    Quote Originally Posted by canuck View Post
    I’m guessing the freedom-loving fringe of the MAGA bunch wants more rules not less. Lol
    Last edited by Zacha341; January-14-25 at 12:07 PM.

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zacha341 View Post
    ^Glad to hear of the improvement. Woodward will catch on I suppose for biking. I have an on-going Mo-Go bike membership and in warmer weather peddle about WSU campus for exercise purposes [not transpo]. Nice option and affordable!
    Yup! I think Mo-Go is a great example of what can happen when you provide options. Glad to hear you are using it! I see a lot of people with bags from shopping on theirs, so it is definitely something that has helped the community beyond just exercise.

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zacha341 View Post
    And Detroit also has an aging populationÂ….
    You have hit the nail squarely on the head. “Aging population”

    So… what is a city supposed to do about that simple fact? Absolutely nothing? Only cater to old people until they are dead and gone and the community is bankrupt or try some new things that younger people seem to like so they might actually have resources to offer services to everyone including the elderly?

  6. #81

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    ^ Really? It should not be seen as construct to 'cater' to just one group. We have quite enough of that with identity politics, etc.

    Just know that everyone will not be interested in the same things at all points and time spans! Which has less to with an actual bankruptcy than it does noting people will seek various options at varying stages of life.

    Further, we'll all experience aging unless you die earlier!
    Last edited by Zacha341; January-14-25 at 07:00 PM.

  7. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zacha341 View Post
    ^ Really? It should not be seen as construct to 'cater' to just one group. We have quite enough of that with identity politics, etc.

    Just know that everyone will not be interested in the same things at all points and time spans! Which has less to with an actual bankruptcy than it does noting people will seek various options at varying stages of life.

    Further, we'll all experience aging unless you die earlier!
    All of what you said is true but you are the one that interjected an "aging population" as a reason not to care about walkability or infrastructure to support that. If there is an aging population in the city wouldn't it make sense to add infrastructure that will be more utilized and appreciated by younger people? You can still get around in your car with bike lanes.

  8. #83

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    I did not say or mean 'NOT TO CARE' or to even cater to one group.

    YOU are interjecting that. I speak to options. Varied [for older, old and young].

    Re-read what I wrote. This time carefully.

    Or continue on with your assertions. I KNOW of what I say/ said.

    So do others.
    Last edited by Zacha341; January-15-25 at 10:45 AM.

  9. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zacha341 View Post
    I did not say or mean 'NOT TO CARE' or to even cater to one group.

    YOU are interjecting that. I speak to options. Varied [for older, old and young].

    Re-read what I wrote. This time carefully.

    Or continue on with your assertions. I KNOW of what I say/ said.

    So do others.
    And yet people are interpreting your words as such...

  10. #85

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    ^

  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zacha341 View Post

    Detroit and many of its suburbs are NOT set up this way. Thus, we have bike lanes unused: born of policies and internet 'likes' never pressure-tested per the existing settings, or per the options many still prefer! Such as driving.
    I don’t mean to pile on here Zachra… But I am having the same problem as the above poster. You seem hyper critical in many of your posts of what is Not your personal preference even going as far to use Bold print. It doesn’t sound like you support “options” at all when I read your posts.

  12. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit View Post
    It doesn’t sound like you support “options” at all when I read your posts.
    Not sure "Options" is the correct word there.

    Bike lanes are not some 'extra" option that adds to the current ones.

    They usually take away either parking or a driving lane. And unless the area is very touristy, [lots of bars, restaurants, pastry shops etc], they usually harm business.

    They also cost a lot to install, at least done the way Ferndale has done them.

    Everything has it's drawbacks, even bike lanes. Take the light rail for example. It blocks up traffic, takes away a lane in some areas, and makes it very dangerous for bicycles. Especially those with narrow tires.

    So we shouldn't listen to just one very small group and then go all in. Instead, we need to consider all of the costs, and weigh them against all of the various affected groups.

  13. #88

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    Bike lanes are tough,where I am at they do not have them in the more dense established core,where you really have to park n walk,or if you live there just walk.

    The further out you go they become more prevalent with designated lanes or bike lanes that share a lane with traffic.

    But most of the streets that added bike lanes they did it when they refurbished the street and accommodated them,or took the emergency lane and made it a bike lane.

    But even at that,you do not really see people of any age using them verses public transportation,considering we have the weather that would make it ideal year round but we also have the highest bike accidents and fatalities in the country,which is kinda crazy because you do not see large amounts of bike riders.

    Different options though,if you want to go from one side of the city,jump on a E-Bike thingy to the street car,that goes through the heart of the city,then jump on another E-Bike .

    No way to bring personal bike on the street car unlike the bus.

  14. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Not sure about yer neck of the woods but Fla could be considered the “right” as a majority but yet we have been laying down rails constantly for mass transit bi partisan for years.

    And it was not exactly “right” controlled cities that ripped out mass transit in the first place.
    I looked up Brightline on Google. Brightline is a private rail company that gets things done albeit with governments' support and cooperation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brightline

    Its first line in Florida from Miami to Orlando, about the distance from Detroit to Chicago, averages 69mph including stops. Each line Brightline builds, is faster with some hitting 125mph which is considered high speed rail. Brightline will be linking LA with Las Vegas at designed speeds of up to 200 miles per hour [[mph). The trains are expected to travel the 218-mile route in about two hours. Maybe Brightline West will be rolling before California's San Francisco - LA route that is 15 years old and billions over budget. Brightline should be considered to oversee short to longer routes into Detroit and use its expertise and government persuasion to get things done.

  15. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by oladub View Post
    I looked up Brightline on Google. Brightline is a private rail company that gets things done albeit with governments' support and cooperation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brightline

    Its first line in Florida from Miami to Orlando, about the distance from Detroit to Chicago, averages 69mph including stops. Each line Brightline builds, is faster with some hitting 125mph which is considered high speed rail. Brightline will be linking LA with Las Vegas at designed speeds of up to 200 miles per hour [[mph). The trains are expected to travel the 218-mile route in about two hours. Maybe Brightline West will be rolling before California's San Francisco - LA route that is 15 years old and billions over budget. Brightline should be considered to oversee short to longer routes into Detroit and use its expertise and government persuasion to get things done.
    The only reason Brightline came to fruition was because the original investor was Branson,without his weight behind it the other investors would not have gotten onboard.

    It originally was a Virgin project for all practical reasons.

    Once there was sufficient investors and political will to carry it,he pulled out.

    It’s a political battle more then a funding battle,I personally do not think anything is really going to be established metro wise or Detroit to Chicago until the bridge is done and the whole Areopark thing is established.

    But pieces of that puzzle are being put in place because that new transit center at the fairgrounds is a bigger part of the “high speed “ rail hub.

    So it’s not that nothing is being done to move it forward,it’s just like a snail on qauludes kinda pace.

    So then that sets the stage for other routes from within the city,branch lines from the stadium to the hub as an example because people from Ann Arbor or Chicago with jump on the high speed and when they get to the hub transfer to the branch line to the stadium without having to drive within the city.

    The first branch lines are going to be pushed along by the ones that benefit from it the most.They have the political power to get it done,it will not be their money but you need them to get it established.

    It’s what they call the last mile - it took 40 years to get support and approval and implement a metro transit system in place in Orlando that was robust enough to support a heavier rail system,but what really improved that last mile aspect was the implementation of the Uber and Lyft transport.

    The hub in Kissimmee,the public bus does not stop at the hub,unless it has changed but it was all based on catch a Uber as that last mile.

    The Kissimmee hub for regional is on the backside of the land that was the world headquarters for Tupperware,it was in no way convenient unless you took an Uber or somebody dropped you off.

    Brightline hub is right downtown Kissimmee,so it is easier to catch bright line to Miami then it is to catch the regional routes.

    But even the regional route is big rail cars,large comfortable seats with tables,luxury and worlds apart from the street cars of the past where everybody was crammed in.

    It’s like being chauffeured in a Bentley just to go a mile across town and nobody even dares to act stupid because they do not play like that.

    The previous taxi system was mob controlled and no way would have supported a rapid transit stop without people waiting for hours.

    The city of Detroit could probably speed it up a bit if they figured out how to best connect that first line to the transit hub.

    Whats the best route that would be the fastest and have the potential to serve the most of the residents.

    Thats what federal funding bases it on,the amount of people that potentialy be served from point A to point B on any given route.

    But really it would not hurt if somebody locally flipped Branson an email,you might be surprised,he’s not an unapproachable person.
    Last edited by Richard; January-15-25 at 09:26 PM.

  16. #91

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    I measured it out once with map overlays ... I could fit most of two city blocks like where I grew up within the property I own now.

  17. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by southen View Post
    My partner lives in Ferndale. I see cyclists everywhere in that city.
    30 years ago, Ferndale and RO were littered with potential hood ornaments blocking traffic. I stayed clear of there.

  18. #93

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    Here is an article by a Chicago transportation planner reviewing Madison's Bus Rapid Transit system. It is sort of a crosstown bus extending from one end of Madison to past the other end with stops about every half mile.Taking a ride on Madison’s new [[and quick) bus rapid transit line It could be viable in Detroit. The federal government gave Madison about $175m to pay for half of it. I have 10th Amendment disagreements but the attitude was take the money and run a bus line. Detroit could do the same. Although these busses are long, they accommodate only four more passengers than conventional busses because of all the door and inside bicycle storage. As they presently cannot pay for themselves despite the federal help, Madison rezoned everything within quarter mile of the bus line into multi family housing. it is much more flexible and cheaper than rail lines.
    video
    Last edited by oladub; January-17-25 at 01:45 AM.

  19. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meddle View Post
    30 years ago, Ferndale and RO were littered with potential hood ornaments blocking traffic. I stayed clear of there.

    The pesky bicycle trend started blossoming at a time when hood ornaments were pretty much fazed out. Lol

    Lifestyle wise, the alternative is that you could have chosen Ferndale slash Royal Oak and sported a scooper bumper on both family cars.

  20. #95

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    These threads certainly have a way of mutating from the original subject. The contention that Americans prefer sprawl to walkable cities is contradicted by the fact that they tend to like to take their vacations in places that ARE walkable. Tourist destinations domestic and foreign are characterized by their lack of automobile centered culture. People even flock to the artificial "main streets" of Disneyland for this experience. It is the walkability of the "old" cities like Savannah, Charleston, Boston, NY and SF that are the tourist magnets. It has always struck me as curious that they don't seem to realize they could create this kind of environment in the own home towns.

  21. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by expatriate View Post
    The contention that Americans prefer sprawl to walkable cities is contradicted by the fact that they tend to like to take their vacations in places that ARE walkable. Tourist destinations domestic and foreign are characterized by their lack of automobile centered culture. People even flock to the artificial "main streets" of Disneyland for this experience.
    I too like to visit places that are walkable. Well, warm places anyway.

    I just don't want to live or work in one. I need a vehicle to haul my work stuff, home stuff, my children and their school stuff, groceries, etc.

    I'd hate to be forced to do all that on foot, or on a bike, in February.
    Last edited by Rocket; January-30-25 at 07:13 PM.

  22. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket View Post
    I too like to visit places that are walkable. Well, warm places anyway.

    I just don't want to live or work in one. I need a vehicle to haul my work stuff, home stuff, my children and their school stuff, groceries, etc.

    I'd hate to be forced to do all that on foot, or on a bike, in February.
    It’s no different in Florida,who wants to ride a mile on a bike when it is 100 degrees out with 90% humidity,the youngsters can,but it is about options where you are not depending on one mode of transport.

    It’s easier if one is single without a family,but the thing I notice in the planned communities here,like Celebration where it is a recreated “old town” the majority that live there really do not go outside of its boundaries.

    They have everything they need there,and are snobby as hell,but the money spent is contained to that 10 block circle,the rest of the city is not really benefiting from it.

    It’s like a little self contained bubble within a city totally independent and really not a part of the fabric of the rest of the city.

    They are actually building them out in the middle of nowhere now,one way in and out with security.

    Not subdivisions,complete little recreated town,restaurants,movie theater,etc,if you WFH you never have to leave the compound or even drive anywhere.

  23. #98

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    Of course. There will always be a need for private vehicles for many of the tasks mentioned, but not all. Most American cities are laid out in such a way as to require a car to do pretty much anything. As far as climate goes there are plenty of vibrant walkable cities from the Nordic countries to South America where most day to day errands can be accomplished without owning a car.

  24. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by expatriate View Post
    ...most day to day errands can be accomplished without owning a car.
    Walkable Humor:
    https://youtu.be/IB7u4iyEvB0?t=2
    Last edited by Henry Whalley; January-31-25 at 10:57 PM.

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