RenCen plan would demolish 2 towers — but it hinges on public money

[Richard]

Cannot anyways,the experts say it will be flooded.

Today, these ice caps would displace around 250 million people and bury cities such as Detroit, Manchester, Vancouver, Hamburg, and Helsinki

https://www.inverse.com/science/citi...climate-change

Glad they figured Detroit would be underwater before Florida,brings a whole new level of hope for the future.

Interesting how out of all of the cities in the U.S. they picked Detroit as a comparison to other world cities.

[Jimaz]

$1.6 Billion Demolition? The Shocking Plan for Detroit’s RenCen

General Motors’ decision to leave Detroit’s iconic Renaissance Center {RenCen} has sparked debate about the building’s future and the city’s ongoing revival. Originally envisioned in the 1970s as a symbol of Detroit’s rebirth, the RenCen became GM’s headquarters in 1996 after a $500 million renovation. However, shifting workplace trends and declining office demand led GM to announce its move to the Hudson’s Detroit development—a $1.4 billion mixed-use project in downtown. The relocation raises questions about the RenCen’s fate, as GM and Bedrock Detroit propose a $1.6 billion redevelopment plan. The controversial proposal includes partial demolition, residential conversions, and public funding requests, drawing criticism from taxpayers and preservationists. Despite opposition, GM insists the project is necessary to revitalize the site. As Detroit’s skyline evolves, the RenCen’s transformation remains uncertain, leaving residents and officials divided on how best to preserve its legacy while adapting to modern needs.

[stasu1213]

Let's see if the Lions logo with a congratulations will flash on the LED screen on top of the RenCen if the Lions win the Superbowl. Who cares about competitive companies

[oladub]

This seems like such a waste. RenCen buildings are nicer than most of the buildings in downtown Detroit. I'm leaning toward laziness and lack of imagination in marketing the space or opportunities for grifters to siphon contract money. Of course, the buildings were devalued by the decision to fill the Chrysler Expressway with dirt from somewhere. China is building thousands of miles of high speed rails and gleaming cities while we move piles of dirt around and tear hydro dams down for rich fly fishermen for the same money. I don't want to be betting on China.

From time to time I introduce the concept of mega gated communities with their own schools as one way to rebuild Detroit twenty blocks at a time. This always ends in outraging those who prefer the wild open spaces without realizing that every apartment building is already a gated community.

The University of Pittsburg and Moscow University have high rise classroom towers. Wayne State could use some student and maybe staff housing. How about an upscale community with its own built in Montessori School and daycare. Yuppies [[can I still use that term?) tend to leave central cities when their kids are faced with the local public schools. Glue them there with good private schools [[They can afford it), a bank, and some other community amenities. Provide housing for teachers and other building staff as part of their pay to fill additional units. Invite some Detroit Police at affordable prices to live there too. Word would get out.

How about a some floors dedicated to a medical clinic? Public transportation is good and there are underground garages. Attach an independent living/ assisted living/ nursing home complex. I know of a senior center in Fort Myers with 700 units that included some communal eating, a bank branch, a hair dresser, religious facilities, exercise and pool facilities on campus.

What about Trump wanting to send Washington bureaucrats packing to do their work in places around the Country? Maybe the department of the Interior should be relocated to Wyoming. Maybe the Department of Labor should be relocated to Detroit. if the federal dept. of Education was closed, Michigan's DOE would need to expand somewhere.

I'll quit there. My father was in charge of carpentry in one of these 5 towers as well as the Ford Auditorium. He took pride in helping get these things built. It's sad to turn these buildings into rubble so someone can pocket some demolition and new building contract money to make a place to grow grass.

[401don]

China is building thousands of miles of high speed rails and gleaming cities while we move piles of dirt around and tear hydro dams down for rich fly fishermen for the same money. I don't want to be betting on China.

Not sure I would use China as an example. Their real estate crisis is a disaster of thousands of empty highrises worth trillions.

[Gistok]

$1.6 Billion Demolition? The Shocking Plan for Detroit’s RenCen

This video mentions that GM had been moving some of their RenCen employees to Warren. Someone earlier said that had not happened.

Based on the comments on this Youtube video... almost no one wants the state to use any state money on an even partial demolition of the RenCen.

[oladub]

Not sure I would use China as an example. Their real estate crisis is a disaster of thousands of empty highrises worth trillions.

China builds a lot of vacant apartments. It's a curious thing but Americans buy $35,000 cars that depreciate to almost nothing in 15 years. We also have a high percentage of available commercial office space sitting empty right now.

[Richard]

This video mentions that GM had been moving some of their RenCen employees to Warren. Someone earlier said that had not happened.

Based on the comments on this Youtube video... almost no one wants the state to use any state money on an even partial demolition of the RenCen.

They must not have read anything about it,the actual demolition funds were set aside from the infrastructure act,before even it was announced that demolition was on the table.

So it was money that was allocated to the city,so as to the funds and demolition aspect only,the rest of the state has about as much input as to how it is spent in the city of Detroit as the city of Detroit residents can tell the other cities in the state as to how they can spend the funds they were allocated.

So locally the only argument is,is it the best use of $350 million in demolition funds when other neighborhoods could use it,then you have to look at long term.

If you use the funds to partially demolish this place,does what replaces it benefit the city residents as a whole more so then targeted neighborhood demolition.

Thats the discussion the city residents need to be having.

Its totally irrelevant that the demolition has been proposed,what is relevant is the $350 million that is sitting there that has been allotted for it and what is its highest and best use.

It has an expiration date,use it or lose it,you cannot be spending 2 years debating about it.

[carlscomputers]

There has got to be some multi-national conglomerate out there which has the resources and the number of in office employees to make the Ren-Cen work for them? I would love to broker that deal!!!

[stasu1213]

Leave all 6 towers. G.M. management team had done a terrible job with the RenCen over the past 15 years. I understand that Gilbert doesn't want this Island to itself vacuuming all of the businesses that are in the downtown midtown area such as the RenCen had done in the late 70s throughout the 80s. Have a team whether locally, nationally, internationally, or a team consisting with a blend from each to come up with ideas for the towers. Detroit may become a boomtown once again. New York is suffering from motorists have to pay a toll to drive their vehicles south of I think 60th street to cut down the congestion. Detroit may look a little appealing to some of those New Yorkers whom are looking for a cheaper city to relocate to.

[Richard]

It’s hard to say GM did a terrible job with the building,they are in the car business and not the real estate development business,it did not matter how full or vacant it was,they used the depreciation and losses as write downs.

It’s different with a corporation building a building for an office verses a developer building a building for profit.

The 64+ age group grew 42% while the 0-4 age group declined 8.2% between 2010 and 2022.

So cities also have to look at an age decline in residences that are not being replaced,so really anything you build large scale in residential runs the risk of becoming vacant 10 years from now as the boomers pass on and the younger generation is not having enough babies to replace them.

Or the housing shortage of today will become the housing glut of tomorrow,we already see that in many small cities and towns across the country,lots of large office buildings built by banks etc have been sitting vacant 20-30 years.

So with something like this,that’s going to carry a big note for the next 30 years,they are not only looking at today,they are looking at 10-20-30 years down the road,just like a city does,the difference between a progressive city verses regressive.

[401don]

G.M. management team had done a terrible job with the RenCen over the past 15 years.

This is such a ridiculously bad take. Yes, they spent millions on renovations that were still not enough to make the building attractive to tenants or consumers, but that just confirms there has never been a market for that type of structure in Detroit. Hines and other companies were hired over the years and couldn't make it work either. Now every city in the country has tons of empty commercial space. Exactly what is your solution - and please don't say the world's largest aquarium or water slide.

[K-slice]

This is such a ridiculously bad take. Yes, they spent millions on renovations that were still not enough to make the building attractive to tenants or consumers, but that just confirms there has never been a market for that type of structure in Detroit. Hines and other companies were hired over the years and couldn't make it work either. Now every city in the country has tons of empty commercial space. Exactly what is your solution - and please don't say the world's largest aquarium or water slide.

You're absoloutley right. There is no amount of rejiggering that will make the building as it stands attractive to propective tennants. Millions of square feet of outdated office space built on top of an outdated shopping mall cannot be fixed. If the space was easy [[or profitable) to repurpose as is then developers would come from all over to take on the project, but it's just not.

[canuck]

You're absoloutley right. There is no amount of rejiggering that will make the building as it stands attractive to propective tennants. Millions of square feet of outdated office space built on top of an outdated shopping mall cannot be fixed. If the space was easy [[or profitable) to repurpose as is then developers would come from all over to take on the project, but it's just not.

One of the sorry aspects about the RenCen, is the fact that the Michigan Central was renovated at great cost by Ford, and that a monumental property like the RenCen is facing a near total demise.

I say that with the shared view that the project was probably a failure from the outset, notably because of its scope. I can’t help but think about it in the context of planned obsolescence or past due dates. Weird and sad.

[sirrealone]

GM tried to turn the space and the surrounding area into vibrant space. They added the Wintergarden. They initially had classic cars on display. They built out the Asian Village area. None of it was enough to draw people to the area.

What they never did was allow for any of the surrounding space to be developed. I think they did have actual intentions to do so before the auto industry meltdown and the great recession took hold, then by the time they got out of all that, it wasn't a priority for anyone anymore.

It's more a victim of bad location than anything.

[stasu1213]

It’s hard to say GM did a terrible job with the building,they are in the car business and not the real estate development business,it did not matter how full or vacant it was,they used the depreciation and losses as write downs.

It’s different with a corporation building a building for an office verses a developer building a building for profit.

The 64+ age group grew 42% while the 0-4 age group declined 8.2% between 2010 and 2022.

So cities also have to look at an age decline in residences that are not being replaced,so really anything you build large scale in residential runs the risk of becoming vacant 10 years from now as the boomers pass on and the younger generation is not having enough babies to replace them.

Or the housing shortage of today will become the housing glut of tomorrow,we already see that in many small cities and towns across the country,lots of large office buildings built by banks etc have been sitting vacant 20-30 years.

So with something like this,that’s going to carry a big note for the next 30 years,they are not only looking at today,they are looking at 10-20-30 years down the road,just like a city does,the difference between a progressive city verses regressive.

Ford had done a good job with the complex when they had major retail stores throughout the RenCen and also had The World of Ford where current years cars and some classic cars were on display. Sure Ford used it as an office complex but Just like the WTC in New York and the Sears Tower in Chicago, Ford also had amenities for visitors and tourist. Sure the RenCen was built in wake of the 67 riots. However what was being ignored or denied was Detroit was hemorrhaging residents, companies, and retail severely when the RenCen opened in 1977.

[Trumpeteer]

One of the sorry aspects about the RenCen, is the fact that the Michigan Central was renovated at great cost by Ford, and that a monumental property like the RenCen is facing a near total demise.

I say that with the shared view that the project was probably a failure from the outset, notably because of its scope. I can’t help but think about it in the context of planned obsolescence or past due dates. Weird and sad.

The Ren Cen is NOT a monumental property!!

[canuck]

The Ren Cen is NOT a monumental property!!

I mean monumental size-wise. If 4 million sq ft isn’t monumental, what is?

Massive might please you. It is what it is.

[takascar]

The Ren Cen is NOT a monumental property!!

No it isn't. Its glass and steel towers on top of a brutalist nightmare [[Brutalist is NOT A VALID FORM OF ARCHITECTURE, it is an attack by communists on western civilization and beauty itself, as Jordan Peterson and many others have said). The train station is monumental.

[canuck]

@takascar a new year's gift to you:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...ts-1235230047/

[401don]

Ford had done a good job with the complex when they had major retail stores throughout the RenCen and also had The World of Ford where current years cars and some classic cars were on display. Sure Ford used it as an office complex but Just like the WTC in New York and the Sears Tower in Chicago, Ford also had amenities for visitors and tourist. Sure the RenCen was built in wake of the 67 riots. However what was being ignored or denied was Detroit was hemorrhaging residents, companies, and retail severely when the RenCen opened in 1977.

Henry the Deuce twisted arms of corporations to get all those high end stores in with absolutely no market for them. They all lost money and closed in a few years. Yeah, great job.

[Trumpeteer]

I mean monumental size-wise. If 4 million sq ft isn’t monumental, what is?

Massive might please you. It is what it is.

Massive would have been the correct word. Monumental to me means something of importance or value which the Ren Cen is not.

[stasu1213]

This seems like such a waste. RenCen buildings are nicer than most of the buildings in downtown Detroit. I'm leaning toward laziness and lack of imagination in marketing the space or opportunities for grifters to siphon contract money. Of course, the buildings were devalued by the decision to fill the Chrysler Expressway with dirt from somewhere. China is building thousands of miles of high speed rails and gleaming cities while we move piles of dirt around and tear hydro dams down for rich fly fishermen for the same money. I don't want to be betting on China.

From time to time I introduce the concept of mega gated communities with their own schools as one way to rebuild Detroit twenty blocks at a time. This always ends in outraging those who prefer the wild open spaces without realizing that every apartment building is already a gated community.

The University of Pittsburg and Moscow University have high rise classroom towers. Wayne State could use some student and maybe staff housing. How about an upscale community with its own built in Montessori School and daycare. Yuppies [[can I still use that term?) tend to leave central cities when their kids are faced with the local public schools. Glue them there with good private schools [[They can afford it), a bank, and some other community amenities. Provide housing for teachers and other building staff as part of their pay to fill additional units. Invite some Detroit Police at affordable prices to live there too. Word would get out.

How about a some floors dedicated to a medical clinic? Public transportation is good and there are underground garages. Attach an independent living/ assisted living/ nursing home complex. I know of a senior center in Fort Myers with 700 units that included some communal eating, a bank branch, a hair dresser, religious facilities, exercise and pool facilities on campus.

What about Trump wanting to send Washington bureaucrats packing to do their work in places around the Country? Maybe the department of the Interior should be relocated to Wyoming. Maybe the Department of Labor should be relocated to Detroit. if the federal dept. of Education was closed, Michigan's DOE would need to expand somewhere.

I'll quit there. My father was in charge of carpentry in one of these 5 towers as well as the Ford Auditorium. He took pride in helping get these things built. It's sad to turn these buildings into rubble so someone can pocket some demolition and new building contract money to make a place to grow grass.

I would also rather see city government and all other offices move out the Coleman Young Municipal Center and into one of the towers. I think that the State of Michigan could move out of its Grand Blvd location and move into the RenCen then razed the City County Building or make it into condos and apartments and make the Cadillac Place into Condo and apartments

[southen]

I would also rather see city government and all other offices move out the Coleman Young Municipal Center and into one of the towers. I think that the State of Michigan could move out of its Grand Blvd location and move into the RenCen then razed the City County Building or make it into condos and apartments and make the Cadillac Place into Condo and apartments

So avoid demolition of one building just to turn around and raze a perfectly usable building with even more history?

[401don]

So avoid demolition of one building just to turn around and raze a perfectly usable building with even more history?

Before I replied to that one I decided it was easier just
to bang my head against the wall a couple o times.