Gratiot Avenue Makeover

[stasu1213]

It appear that Gratiot Avenue will finally get a well needed makeover.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...t/75381248007/

[CassTechGrad]

I spent a lot of time at Gratiot Auto Supply back in the 1960's...

[Danny]

I wonder why we pronounce Gratiot [[ GRA-SHIT)! It's actually pronounced [[Gra twait)

[stasu1213]

I spent a lot of time at Gratiot Auto Supply back in the 1960's...

I see why. The store just kept them coming even when they tried closing for the evening

[stasu1213]

Many pedestrians walk right in front of your car while not crossing at the light and sometimes crossing at the light when the light is green for cars especially around Gratiot Harper to Gratiot and Seymour. Many pedestrians wear dark clothing when Jay walking across Gratiot at night. Motorist don't obey the 35 mph speed limit and will be on your back bumper when you do the speed limit.

[Jimaz]

I know how we pronounce Gratiot and I don't know an authoritative source confirming its "proper" pronunciation but I do enjoy playing with howtopronounce.com. It's crowdsourced so it has no more authority than Wikipedia.

On the English page there it claims that "gratiot" means "pickle juice." LOL! Near the top of the page you can select French to hear examples of pronunciations in that language. Of course you can hear french pronunciations of other Detroit-related words, including détroit.

[royce]

Narrowing Gratiot by a lane in each direction would cut down the speeding, but it would also make Gratiot a parking lot during rush hour.

[Sandhouse]

I have not driven Gratiot during peak hours lately, but that is likely true for some segments.

Just after the current "whitetopping" job was completed, I drove the route at midday to look it over. I was shocked when I saw that my speedometer read 60 mph not far out of downtown. And I wasn't passing anybody. The current cross section definitely invites high speeds.

It will be interesting to see how the redesign develops. Maybe there's sufficient width for a bus lane in the City, which will indeed suppress speeds. But if the lane is continued north of Eight or Ten Mile, I suspect it will produce congestion. I think it's unworkable north of Twelve Mile.

There was an effort in the recently-ended legislature to set aside up to $160 million/year for BRT schemes. [[See HB 5769 of 2024.) This was reported to the House but went no further. The Whitmer administration promoted a similar idea. These schemes will get nowhere under a divided legislature, but the BRT idea won't go away. I predict dedicating a lane to buses will generate opposition in Macomb County.

[royce]

Sandhouse, you're right, there will be opposition for any BRT or other transit in Macomb County. They only believe in driving their personal vehicles. Nothing will ever change until some world crisis forces gas prices to exceed $10 a gallon. Also, there was a recent renovation of Gratiot north of I-696. I don't think any more money is going to go towards Gratiot along that stretch of Gratiot. Finally, the money being granted is for work on Gratiot with in the Detroit city limits.

[Zacha341]

^ Then only the rich/ elite will CONTINUE to drive their cars. A desired outcome some would argue.

[Jimaz]

^ Then only the rich/ elite will CONTINUE to drive their cars. A desired outcome some would argue.

The elite don't drive their cars. They have people for that.

[401don]

Sandhouse, you're right, there will be opposition for any BRT or other transit in Macomb County. They only believe in driving their personal vehicles. Nothing will ever change until some world crisis forces gas prices to exceed $10 a gallon. Also, there was a recent renovation of Gratiot north of I-696. I don't think any more money is going to go towards Gratiot along that stretch of Gratiot. Finally, the money being granted is for work on Gratiot with in the Detroit city limits.

We pay about 5.70 a gallon in Canada and I can honestly say that living in sprawling suburbs I would cut corners elsewhere, suck it up and pay 10.00 or more to keep driving my own car. No way I'm taking a bus to Walmart, the grocery store, get a coffee, go play tennis, visit my sister, etc. It's a matter of choice. My wife and I live on about 45,000 per year, so hardly rich.

[stasu1213]

Sandhouse, you're right, there will be opposition for any BRT or other transit in Macomb County. They only believe in driving their personal vehicles. Nothing will ever change until some world crisis forces gas prices to exceed $10 a gallon. Also, there was a recent renovation of Gratiot north of I-696. I don't think any more money is going to go towards Gratiot along that stretch of Gratiot. Finally, the money being granted is for work on Gratiot with in the Detroit city limits.

A BRT with designated lanes will work out on Gratiot from Monroe to 8 mile road. All the redevelopment which includes the communities, businesses and retail along that stretch of Gratiot would be enough to make some type of rapid transit worthwhile. Somehow Detroit always find a way for mis opportunities probably by installing a grassy island with loop lanes in the middle of that stretch of Gratiot instead of a designated bus lane

[jcole]

I wonder why we pronounce Gratiot [[ GRA-SHIT)! It's actually pronounced [[Gra twait)

Gra-shio

[expatriate]

Sadly this is indeed the case with current land use patterns. Good transit requires population density to make sense. But development of infill housing in existing urban areas will require less individual automobile ownership if it is accompanied by improved transit within that core. In any event cities should not spend transportation budgets making it easier to drive within their jurisdictions. There will always be folks who prefer suburban or exurban living and willing to pay the annual $12K in auto upkeep and that's OK.

[stasu1213]

Sadly this is indeed the case with current land use patterns. Good transit requires population density to make sense. But development of infill housing in existing urban areas will require less individual automobile ownership if it is accompanied by improved transit within that core. In any event cities should not spend transportation budgets making it easier to drive within their jurisdictions. There will always be folks who prefer suburban or exurban living and willing to pay the annual $12K in auto upkeep and that's OK.

Good transit create density. Not the other way around. Not many people would relocate to an area or city that are not walkable nor have good transit. That's why many cities across the country were built around train tracks more than 100 years ago and many suburbs were built around defense highways 70 years ago. Have a reliable transit system on Gratiot that will travel from downtown to 8 mile road you will see how dense the neighborhoods along the Gratiot corridor will become and how many businesses including retail will open on Gratiot

[canuck]

Gra-shio

Yessir, that's more like it!

[Zacha341]

The elite don't drive their cars. They have people for that.

Granted. But some DO opt for that peddle-to-the-medal feel of actually driving that exotic or expensive car!

Driving can be a pain at times but I yet enjoy driving my far lesser models at my lowly income level ......

The roll-feel of a Mercede's G-63 from the garage of other lovelies far above that could be a joy for the chauffeur though!

[Zacha341]

12K a year upkeep! What do they own? A pesky Audi or aging Range Rover? Both of those can give you a wallet-ectomy.

Well if that's the case I suppose. Depending on model and year many here in Michi are paying upwards of $500+ in car insurance a month [my rate not that high]... so if you figure that in well ok.

...There will always be folks who prefer suburban or exurban living and willing to pay the annual $12K in auto upkeep and that's OK.

[Zacha341]

Yep. When older you're not so exciting about mass transit either.

We purchase used without car payments in order to stay in the 'driving' lane.

The dealerships here in the US are jacked with cars, trucks and SUV's
stacking up dusty--well priced out of range for many!

We pay about 5.70 a gallon in Canada and I can honestly say that living in sprawling suburbs I would cut corners elsewhere, suck it up and pay 10.00 or more to keep driving my own car. No way I'm taking a bus to Walmart, the grocery store, get a coffee, go play tennis, visit my sister, etc. It's a matter of choice. My wife and I live on about 45,000 per year, so hardly rich.

[lpg]

I spent a lot of time at Gratiot Auto Supply back in the 1960's...

Same here. 9146 Gratiot. I remember standing in line to get waited on.

[royce]

You would think differently about having a car if the things you use your car for are closer to where you live. What I find great about NYC is that your can walk to a coffee shop, a grocery store, or a park. The grocery store won't be a Wal-Mart but you can get your grocery needs. You may have to go everyday to get those supplies since you won't be able to carry everything you need, but you'll be healthier making that daily walk.

The issue here in the U.S and Canada is that in many places the separation of retail from residential requires most people to be forced to own a car. Only now are developers creating developments that are putting the two closer to each other. Either they are building apartments/condos closer to malls or putting residences in dying malls.

I suggested in another thread that the closed Sears store and its surrounding parking lots that make up the old Livonia Mall be redeveloped into residential. Within walking distance you have a Wal-Mart, Kohl's, Petco, and four to five restaurants. Also, there are several stores immediately across the former mall to the east and south. In addition, some of those parking lots could be developed into a small park with a few tennis courts and basketball courts. One would not need a car in this development. Finally, Smart busses run along the two cross streets: Seven Mile and Middlebelt.

[K-slice]

Livonia should have pushed for something better when the old mall was torn down. It's too late now for that site to become anything worth while. Doomed to be another strip mall for another 100 years.

[stasu1213]

You would think differently about having a car if the things you use your car for are closer to where you live. What I find great about NYC is that your can walk to a coffee shop, a grocery store, or a park. The grocery store won't be a Wal-Mart but you can get your grocery needs. You may have to go everyday to get those supplies since you won't be able to carry everything you need, but you'll be healthier making that daily walk.

The issue here in the U.S and Canada is that in many places the separation of retail from residential requires most people to be forced to own a car. Only now are developers creating developments that are putting the two closer to each other. Either they are building apartments/condos closer to malls or putting residences in dying malls.

I suggested in another thread that the closed Sears store and its surrounding parking lots that make up the old Livonia Mall be redeveloped into residential. Within walking distance you have a Wal-Mart, Kohl's, Petco, and four to five restaurants. Also, there are several stores immediately across the former mall to the east and south. In addition, some of those parking lots could be developed into a small park with a few tennis courts and basketball courts. One would not need a car in this development. Finally, Smart busses run along the two cross streets: Seven Mile and Middlebelt.

Many of Detroit neighborhoods had those amenities within the neighborhood so that residents didn't have to rely on their automobiles to do their shopping or take care of business. Sadly the newly developed areas including the downtown midtown areas don't have the one stop shops that Sears, Wards, and Federal were nor the good grocery stores such as Farmer Jack, A&P, Great Scott, and Chatam were. Downtown has more bars and expensive restaurants than grocery stores, one stop shops for households, and other amenities. That's why I made a big deal of Target not opening in midtown Detroit.

[Zacha341]

Grocery store everyday? That IS more a NY thing - where people are used to the daily bodega/ store run on to the subways or a short walk.

Granted produce and some meats IMO require some shopping frequency if you want to eat fresh. Yet with prices as they are some are buying in bulk at clubs such as BJ's, Costco etc where you clearly need transpo for purchases, or car pool those efforts at scheduled time.

Now that I am older, yet very active, I do NOT want to walk long distances slogging heavy bags of groceries or products.

With great intentionality I already exercise, averaging about 5000+ steps in those actions, not including work walking/ movement activities.

I do drive less and welcome more store options near. But per the COVID fall-out and economy impacting retail more stores are CLOSING. Not opening.

You would think differently about having a car if the things you use your car for are closer to where you live. What I find great about NYC is that your can walk to a coffee shop, a grocery store, or a park. The grocery store won't be a Wal-Mart but you can get your grocery needs. You may have to go everyday to get those supplies since you won't be able to carry everything you need, but you'll be healthier making that daily walk...