Barack Obama is the New Bill Clinton.

[rb336]

The Obama administration is doing one thing right in this regard. It is threatening to tax the foreign profits of US companies although I would like to see that offset with tax cuts or reductions in the deficit but that is probably asking for too much.

The amount we would get by doing this would go a long way towards balancing the budget. it's a huge amount of money

[elganned]

You can't tax a corporation. Taxes are factored in as a cost of doing business.
They just pass it on to the consumers in the form of higher prices.
A corporate tax is just a consumer tax by a different name.

[Detroit Stylin]

You all think the republicrats are down and out because they lost the election? Think again. They haven't had this much fun since the Starr and Whitewater investigations. If you thought a hundred million bucks was a lot of money to spend on a witchhunt for a blowjob, think again. These guys are throwing every single piece of s*#t against the wall until they find something that sticks. And they will find something that sticks. Obama is an 'illegal immigrant', Obama's a socialist, Obama's a fascist, Obama's a 'N', Obama's an activist. There's just enough ignorant people out there to grab on to this stuff and stomp around loudly and indignantly. The South lost the Civil War on the battlefield but won it on the land. It took a hundred years to catch up after the south's 'victory'. The republicrats lost the election at the ballot box but are winning the battles on the ground. Never 'misunderestimate' the ability, and willingness, of ignorant people to bite their noses to spite their faces, and scream they're being persecuted.

You forgot that they also call him the antichrist....

[Detroitej72]

You forgot that they also call him the antichrist....

Right, and some of the more radical wing nuts try to encourage their less stable zombies to shoot the president, thus the public will know for sure if he's the anti-christ.

[ccbatson]

None of his questionable policies/associations/appointments now KNOWN to be as corrupt as could be concerns any liberals?

[Detroitej72]

None of his questionable policies/associations/appointments now KNOWN to be as corrupt as could be concerns any liberals?

Hey, we survived 8 years under the previous regime and our current Commander In Chief's supposed corruption pales in comparison.

[ccbatson]

Taking a leaf from Rb's book Detroitej72?? What corruption/associations/appointments by GWB are you referring to. Preemptively, the old liberal chestnut about WMDs isn't going to do it.

[elganned]

Karl Rove leaps immediately to mind, as does Jack Abramoff...

[1KielsonDrive]

East Detroit, I've used your football team analogy for years. M vs MSU, Bama vs Auburn, SoCal vs UCLA. Some people never get beyond that.

[Blarf]

Until he gets a blow job in the oval office, he doesn't compare.

[ZRX Doug]

Might be interesting think about how history might have developed if Native Americans had their own INS when Europeans arrived.

They did, Jams..unfortunately for them, stone axes, arrows, and knives were not much of a match for the settler's superior armamant.
We came, we saw, we conquered..such is life, and such is the story everywhere.

Bact to the topic..have any of you guys who are buying into the media's [[and the government's) fear-mongering about the "racist nazi terrorist killer hordes of scary white protesters" actually BEEN to any of the rallies, tea parties, town halls, etc?
I have..yeah, there have been a few creepy people [[racially motivated, Obama as Hitler sign carrying [[[[[[[[[s), but the vast majority of people at every single one of these events I've been to couldn't care less about Obama, other than the fact that they don't like his spend-happy way of conducting business with their tax dollars.
We don't want civil war, we want to be heard rather than dismissed..we don't quite understand why it is that the media will go to these events and focus on the two nutcases with the Nazi sign, while ignoring the three thousand taxpayers with a legitimate issue.
We don't quite understand how it is that Nancy Pelosi can cry about the rhetoric from our side the same day that Jimmy Carter decides to tell the world we're all racists..but since that comes three weeks after Nancy called us all Nazis, we're not particularly shocked.

I strongly urge you to attend the next "tea party" you hear of..lay low, speak to some people that attend, develop your OWN opinion of the opposition rather than the one you're being spoon fed by the media.

[firstandten]

They did, Jams..unfortunately for them, stone axes, arrows, and knives were not much of a match for the settler's superior armamant.
We came, we saw, we conquered..such is life, and such is the story everywhere.

Bact to the topic..have any of you guys who are buying into the media's [[and the government's) fear-mongering about the "racist nazi terrorist killer hordes of scary white protesters" actually BEEN to any of the rallies, tea parties, town halls, etc?
I have..yeah, there have been a few creepy people [[racially motivated, Obama as Hitler sign carrying [[[[[[[[[s), but the vast majority of people at every single one of these events I've been to couldn't care less about Obama, other than the fact that they don't like his spend-happy way of conducting business with their tax dollars.
We don't want civil war, we want to be heard rather than dismissed..we don't quite understand why it is that the media will go to these events and focus on the two nutcases with the Nazi sign, while ignoring the three thousand taxpayers with a legitimate issue.
We don't quite understand how it is that Nancy Pelosi can cry about the rhetoric from our side the same day that Jimmy Carter decides to tell the world we're all racists..but since that comes three weeks after Nancy called us all Nazis, we're not particularly shocked.

I strongly urge you to attend the next "tea party" you hear of..lay low, speak to some people that attend, develop your OWN opinion of the opposition rather than the one you're being spoon fed by the media.

Tell me something then ZRX Doug, where was the outrage when Bush was spending us in a trillion dollar deficit by not funding the war$ or medicare part D and god knows what else his administration did without putting the necessary funding in place.

Where were the teabags then ?

Why weren't you upset with how your tax dollars were being spent under the previous administration ?

Do you really think Bush was a good steward of tax payers dollars ?

Is it ok to "starve the beast" under the quise of fiscal conservatism then slam the next administration for spending money to save a economy on the edge of collaspe as a result of that practice.

It seems the teabaggers forgot about all that now that they have a " legitimate" issue with Obama.

Your teabagging arguments would carry more weight if you guys were half as angry at this time last year as you are now.

[ccbatson]

There was and is outrage regarding Bush's spending. Not so much on an ongoing war, but on entitlements, bailouts, etc.

[ZRX Doug]

Let's assume for a moment that all of the statements you make regarding Bush are dead accurate..he was the anti-christ, and ate children for lunch while lighting cigars with our hundred dollar bills..

All of that being stipulated, WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH PROTESTS AGAINST THE CURRENT PRESIDENT'S POLICY?
Your whole argument is based on the ridiculous premise that since el-shrubbo got away with it, so should Obama.
Is that all you've got, really?
If a thief robs you and gets away because your neighbors are apathetic, do you criticize them when they attempt to catch the next one?

Tell me something then ZRX Doug, where was the outrage when Bush was spending us in a trillion dollar deficit by not funding the war$ or medicare part D and god knows what else his administration did without putting the necessary funding in place.

Where were the teabags then ?

Why weren't you upset with how your tax dollars were being spent under the previous administration ?

Do you really think Bush was a good steward of tax payers dollars ?

Is it ok to "starve the beast" under the quise of fiscal conservatism then slam the next administration for spending money to save a economy on the edge of collaspe as a result of that practice.

It seems the teabaggers forgot about all that now that they have a " legitimate" issue with Obama.

Your teabagging arguments would carry more weight if you guys were half as angry at this time last year as you are now.

[ccbatson]

Look libs, get a bit of clarity and perspective. Unless you are one of the rare radical revolutionary libs like minded with Obama, it is YOU, not conservatives, who have been duped and taken advantage of by Obama.

This is the "test" that Biden was referring too, but it is not a test of Obama, he is what he is. It is a test of mainstream Democrats.

[firstandten]

Let's assume for a moment that all of the statements you make regarding Bush are dead accurate..he was the anti-christ, and ate children for lunch while lighting cigars with our hundred dollar bills..

All of that being stipulated, WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH PROTESTS AGAINST THE CURRENT PRESIDENT'S POLICY?
Your whole argument is based on the ridiculous premise that since el-shrubbo got away with it, so should Obama.
Is that all you've got, really?
If a thief robs you and gets away because your neighbors are apathetic, do you criticize them when they attempt to catch the next one?

Thats such an disingenuous rebuttal to my orginal premise. All I'm asking is where were your astro-turfing groups 1 year ago when the economy was going down the crapper. The answer is you don't know.. You were happy then, your man Bush was running the show bringing the economy down. but you didn't care, he was Republican and white and all was well with the world.

Your statement is typical of the selective memory of these supposed "taxpayers with a question groups" First of all the reason you have questions is because nobody in these groups is listening to the policy statements coming from the President, why listen to him anyway, Hannity and Beck is giving you a better storyline, hell, they never, ever let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Besides, the astro-turfing teabaggers got a rare double... a democrat who's also black. They can now just let their inner bigot just come out. Oh, but wait. We can't call him the N-word like we want so we'll insert some words like facist, socialist, Nazi, monkey oh and here's a good one.... the antichrist. The fellow teabaggers will know what we mean.

Spare me the fake outrage Do me a favor and stay on your fellow teabaggers to keep telling the President to keep the government out of their medicare

[ZRX Doug]

1. I'll thank you to not explain my own motives to me.
2. I don't listen to the right wing radio folks..no use for hysterics.
3. I don't listen to Obama any more..no use for hyperbole. For the last three months the man has been extolling the virtues of a health care bill that DOES NOT EXIST. As a president, he makes an excellent talk show guest.

Back on topic..you missed my point fully, which I don't find overly shocking..you're so deeply rooted in your "they're all racists, they loved Bush, they only protest Obama because he's black" line of bullshit that you can't be expected to listen.
Whether today's tea party folks were yesterday's Bush protesters has zero bearing on the issues of today, but you've got no real argument, so you are relegated to creating the straw man variety..

[Detroitej72]

Taking a leaf from Rb's book Detroitej72?? What corruption/associations/appointments by GWB are you referring to. Preemptively, the old liberal chestnut about WMDs isn't going to do it.

WMDs are the most obvious, which you conservatives conveniently disregard.

That invading Iraq was for nothing more than to enrich Bush and Chaney's steak in Halliburton and is another.

Hiding and concealing the ties between the Bush and Bin Laden family is yet one more, need I go on?

[barnesfoto]

a couple of links for perspective:

teabagging nutjobs leader a lifetime user of government health care:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_291625.html

Father Coughlin: Somebody must be blamed!

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5111/

it's especially revealing that our teabag/astroturf apologists,beside using the same old fear pimpist specter of "socialism" haven't forgotten to toss in ANOTHER familiar old scapegoat [[illegal immigrants).

[elganned]

Whether today's tea party folks were yesterday's Bush protesters has zero bearing on the issues of today, but you've got no real argument, so you are relegated to creating the straw man variety..

But Doug, it does have a bearing on the stated reasons why those protesters have chosen now to protest. Their motivation is suspect.

Since spending was already out of control under Bush, yet no tea-bag protests materialized, one can be excused for thinking there is some other unvoiced reason for protesting for which "fiscal conservatism" is being used as a blind.

You are right that an issue is independent of whoever raises it, but I can't but wonder whether, if this issue is resolved, it might simply be replaced and protests continue.

In short, they seem not to be protesting the policy, but rather the man himself.

[ZRX Doug]

Dude..look at the numbers. The ridiculous spending during a recession was NOT there during Bush's two terms..well, at least not until the whole TARP thing, and if you think that wasn't protested, you must be blind & deaf..

You wanna know why I go to rallies and protest?
Cap & Trade
The pork-filled "Stimulus" package.
The takeover of GM & Chrysler.
The "Cash for Clunkers" boondoggle.
And countless other big spending pieces of legislation at a time when we quite simply do not HAVE anything to spend.

Government health care is flatly unconstitutional, and I am not satisfied with the administration's pie-in-the-sky explanations of how it will be financed.

I'm a conservative, not a Republican..this administration's spending is so far off the scale that as a conservative, I have little choice but to do anything I can to change it's course.

[oladub]

ZRX Doug wrote, "Government health care is flatly unconstitutional, and I am not satisfied with the administration's pie-in-the-sky explanations of how it will be financed."

Doug, The 10th Amendment does give states wide latitude. Otherwise, I am in complete agreement. I would add Bush's Wall Street bailout to your list.

I have lately noticed a disturbing trend of forced spending. Understandably, government is getting hard up for cash to expand itself. The answer is kleptocracy. Cars and real estate, for instance, are being confiscated for infractions. Cash is being stolen by government for probable cause. Government has always taxed everything in sight of course. It has also taken to confiscations.

Recently, government has added a new dimension to its penchant for kleptocracy. I use the phrase, "the required consumption of unnecessary goods and services". Sometimes, governement is just doing the bidding of corporations. Here are some examples.

1. Items sold at rummage sales and second hand shops are now subject to lawsuits and penalties. This will encourage anyone who doesn't want to get sued to trash their second hand stuff.
2. Cash for Clunkers took a lot of cheap transportation off the roads. This will drive up the price of remaining inexpensive vehicles. Again, as in #1, this will make life less affordable to those less well off as they will be forced to pay more or try to buy new vehicles.
3. Cap and Trade has a provision that would probably subject homes to energy audits and required improvements before thay can be sold. This could be expensive for buyers and sellers alike.
4. The President was going to require everyone to purchase health insurance. He compared it with requirements to purchase auto insurance. That was a bad analogy as state law regulates car insurance and no one is required to have a car anyway.

It isn't enough that government taxes us. Now it is taking things and requiring us to purchase the products of campaign contributers.

Perot Charts
US Debt Clock

[elganned]

I totally agree that competition is the way to lower the cost of health care. But we are focusing on the wrong market. Competition in the insurance market will not do anything to stem cost in the health services market.

Cheaper health insurance will simply mask the increasing cost of health care; it will do nothing to slow it. Eventually the increasing cost of service will force insurance premiums, copays, and deductibles to a level where only the rich can afford them. This will happen regardless of who provides the insurance, be it private sector or public sector. Then we'll have to revisit this problem again, with more contentiousness and suffering for all.

Where the competition needs to happen is in delivery of health services; that is the only thing that will force prices down. Simply put, we need more doctors.

So we're focusing on the wrong problem, trying to find a way to alleviate the effect without tackling the source. In that regard, all the plans currently on the table are sadly deficient.

[ccbatson]

What other market? Insurance is a vehicle to pay for services it is one market and competition amongst private insurers without external/government/organized labor influences is the path to lower costs.

[elganned]

Deliberately obtuse again, I see. At least you're consistent.

Competition among private insurers is the way to lower cost for insurance. It does nothing to lower the cost of health care service. It just finds a less painful method to pay for it. But the continuing rise in the cost of service will eventually render even that method more painful than the public can stand.

Competition among health care providers, however will lower the cost of service. If that happens, competition among private insurers will play a much less important--though still significant--role. It might even lower the cost to where insurance isn't necessary except in cases of catastrophic need.

Two different markets, CC. Two different markets. Let's let the Sacred Invisible Hand touch the doctors, rather than the insurers; then maybe we'll see some real progress.

Until then, we're fighting over how best to shoot the alligators instead of looking into how to drain the swamp.