ObamaCare

[Papasito]

The bill by Baucus, chairman of the Finance Committee, would make major changes to the nation's $2.5 trillion health care system, including requiring all individuals to purchase health care or pay a fine
http://www.abc-7.com/Global/story.asp?S=11140669

Lets re-read that:

....requiring all individuals to purchase health care or pay a fine

Big Government is going to shove it down your throat, whether you want it or not. You have NO FREEDOM or CHOICE in this matter. You take or else. If you can't pay the fine, YOU GO TO PRISON!

IS THIS STILL AMERICA WE LIVE IN?


furthermore...

The plan would be paid for with $507 billion in cuts to government health programs [[Grandma's Social Security) and $349 billion in new taxes and fees [[to the Americans lucky enough to still have jobs), including a tax on high-end insurance plans [[plans competing against Uncle Sam's) and fees on insurance companies [[causing independants to raise their rates so that they can't compete with the public option) and medical device manufacturers [[jacking up the prices of equiptment badly needed in America's poorer cities' hospitals) .

SHAME ON YOU, WASHINGTON.

[Diehard]

Well, prisoners do have guaranteed health care.

Seriously, how far from the original intent of health care reform is that? Instead of guaranteeing coverage to everyone regardless of income, like other civilized countries do, this bill plans to force everyone to buy into what everyone agrees is a racket. Does anyone think costs will decrease and service will improve once everyone is forced to buy private health insurance?
Yes, the American way. Corporations win, the people get screwed.

[Bobl]

From another thread:
If Senator Baucus' version of "reform" released today is any indication, the GOP and conservatives can take a deep sigh of relief. They won.
The bill would:

1. Bar the public option, thus eliminating competition with the health care monopoly.

2. Require all to purchase insurance from the insurance companies that created this mess.

3. Tax company paid health insurance as income.

The bone thrown to the public would be some restrictions of the preexisting conditions clause.

The insurance company CEOs must be smacking their lips over the millions of new subscribers, and eagerly anticipating their multi million dollar bonuses.

This is a sellout to the insurance lobby. Without the public option, there is no competition. The restrictions on the preexisting conditions will be eroded by their lobby, while millions of new subscribers will be added.
The status quo prevails, with the exception of guaranteed increased income for the insurance industry and a large tax increase [[with no increased benefits) on employer paid health care.
K Street has completed a fabulous ripoff, if this plan is adopted.

[cheddar bob]

Lets re-read that:

Big Government is going to shove it down your throat, whether you want it or not. You have NO FREEDOM or CHOICE in this matter. You take or else. If you can't pay the fine, YOU GO TO PRISON!

IS THIS STILL AMERICA WE LIVE IN?


furthermore...

SHAME ON YOU, WASHINGTON.

Ha ha. You lose.

[Detroitej72]

If you can't pay the fine, YOU GO TO PRISON!

Care to back that up with some facts? And not something from a right wing nut job's website.

Otherwise you are just as guilty of spreading lies as the right wing propagandist's like Rush, Beck, Coulter, Hannity, etc.

[elganned]

Obama made a good point: You are required to have car insurance to drive, what's different about requiring health insurance?

It's to protect the rest of us from the excessive cost of treating people who think the ER is the place to go if you have a cold.

[elganned]

BTW, I find the flag ironic, considering how many people are not insured against snake-bite.

[Jimaz]

There have been so many people crying wolf about this issue that if anyone ever does come up with a legitimate problem, they won't be believed.

Anger alone isn't very persuasive.

[vetalalumni]

Anger alone isn't very persuasive.

So accurate. Verbal bullying does not convince very well.

[rb336]

The bill by Baucus, chairman of the Finance Committee, would make major changes to the nation's $2.5 trillion health care system, including requiring all individuals to purchase health care or pay a fine
http://www.abc-7.com/Global/story.asp?S=11140669

The plan would be paid for with $507 billion in cuts to government health programs [[Grandma's Social Security) and $349 billion in new taxes and fees [[to the Americans lucky enough to still have jobs), including a tax on high-end insurance plans [[plans competing against Uncle Sam's) and fees on insurance companies [[causing independants to raise their rates so that they can't compete with the public option) and medical device manufacturers [[jacking up the prices of equiptment badly needed in America's poorer cities' hospitals) .

This is the plan the Blue Dogs and REPUBLICANS put together. It is a total misnomer to call it "Obamacare." this is the CONSERVATIVES idea of what a bill should look like

[Diehard]

Obama made a good point: You are required to have car insurance to drive, what's different about requiring health insurance?

It's to protect the rest of us from the excessive cost of treating people who think the ER is the place to go if you have a cold.

The difference being that a car/driver's license is not essential for life itself.

[Detroitej72]

This is the plan the Blue Dogs and REPUBLICANS put together. It is a total misnomer to call it "Obamacare." this is the CONSERVATIVES idea of what a bill should look like

And yet the right wing looses will scream that this is "Obama's plan". Thats what happens when your entire movement is based on lies, propaganda, and screaming the loudest.

People tend to do that when they have nothing else to offer.

[Gistok]

Lets re-read that:

Big Government is going to shove it down your throat, whether you want it or not. You have NO FREEDOM or CHOICE in this matter. You take or else. If you can't pay the fine, YOU GO TO PRISON!

IS THIS STILL AMERICA WE LIVE IN?


furthermore...

SHAME ON YOU, WASHINGTON.

LOL... Papasito you are such a tool.... thanks for the laugh... and the faux indignation....

I was wondering what they were going to do with those 200 year old empty Debtors Prisons...

And oh yes... "grandma's social security".... I was wondering how long it would take for Obama to send her to the "Poor House". They haven't been the same since they closed those under FDR...

Ya gotta love those Slippery Slopes!!

[oladub]

No surprises here. Corporate America's investment is about to pay off. Didn't anyone think it was odd how President Obama lumped single payer health care with some right wing plan no one had ever heard of and then tried to position himself as being in the middle?

Take a peek at Senate health care magnates campaign funders to get an idea of where the money is coming from that is behind the ultimate plan. What you see is what you get.

Edward Kennedy http://www.opensecrets.org/politicia...0000308&type=I

Max Baucus http://www.opensecrets.org/politicia...0004643&type=I

[ccbatson]

Socialism in all forms is a disaster...including corporate socialism.

[Papasito]

You can either have the Medical Industry run by individuals and companies owned by the private sector, who are held accountable by our nation's laws, rules and regulations, or you can have it run by our Government, who answers to no one, and is corrupt, dishonest, and controlling.
When private companies fail, they go bankrupt and collapse [[or at least should, pre bailout era) and are replaced by more efficient, better organized companies. When the government fails, they borrow money your children and grandchildren have to pay back, and take no responsibility for their screwups.

Who was it that you wanted to run the Health Care Industry again?
The Government?
So funny.

[ccbatson]

Exactly...which is why I fear for Michigan vis a vis GM and Chrysler being caught in this inescapable trap.

[Stosh]

Fine. Then shut it all down. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. You all will be sooooo happy.

[elganned]

You can either have the Medical Industry run by individuals and companies owned by the private sector, who are held accountable by our nation's laws, rules and regulations, or you can have it run by our Government, who answers to no one, and is corrupt, dishonest, and controlling.

And when the private companies are big enough to own the government?

Where do you turn, then?

[rb336]

And when the private companies are big enough to own the government?

Where do you turn, then?

you mean NOW?

welcome to the Corporate States of America, a nation of the corp, by the corp and for the corp

[Diehard]

You can either have the Medical Industry run by individuals and companies owned by the private sector, who are held accountable by our nation's laws, rules and regulations,

Except that they've spent millions and millions on lobbyists and campaign contributions to see to it those laws are written to favor them. They also have teams of lawyers making sure the customer will get screwed if a dispute arises. If it was truly a free market, there'd be no need for lobbyists, legalese or buying politicians.

or you can have it run by our Government, who answers to no one, and is corrupt, dishonest, and controlling.

Not all politicians and government workers are corrupt. In theory, at least, we own the government, so they answer to us. We can vote in others to replace the corrupt and dishonest.

When private companies fail, they go bankrupt and collapse [[or at least should, pre bailout era) and are replaced by more efficient, better organized companies.

They should, but the laws are written for their benefit. Insurance companies won't fail as long as they're legally allowed to jack up prices, deny claims and drop enrollees on a whim - for a "product" that people need for life itself, not a luxury item. In what other industry is it OK to tear up a contract when the customer comes to collect for their part of the deal? This bill would make it worse, since we'd no longer have the option of refusing to become a customer.[/quote]

When the government fails, they borrow money your children and grandchildren have to pay back, and take no responsibility for their screwups.

Sometimes borrowing is necessary, because the government will screw up some things. Private companies borrow heavily too - ever heard of Wall Street? But the government is not a private company, and thus isn't allowed to "fail." Would you want the government to go out of business and disappear when a plan doesn't work? Are you ready for a real-life "Lord of the Flies"?

Who was it that you wanted to run the Health Care Industry again?
The Government?
So funny.

All told, I'd prefer to have it run by people we can fire on Election Day.

[Detroitej72]

The only people more foolish than the idiots in congress who are against health care reform are the tools on AM radio and the masses who believe them. At least the clowns against it in congress have been bought and paid for by big insurance and have a nice payoff.

Those who buy the lies that are sold by AM radio are the perfect tools, as they just drink the kool aid of the ditto head show without ever seeking the facts for themselves.

[ccbatson]

Diehard... apart from illegal bribery/blackmail/etc. It is the responsibility of the potential recipients of special interest favors to turn it down. Guess who that is? the now overwhelmingly liberal lawmakers.

[Diehard]

They don't look overwhelmingly liberal to me... if they were they would've gotten a plan with a public option passed by now.
What's your point? Are you trying to say only liberal lawmakers got campaign donations from the health-care industry? Or that only conservative lawmakers are allowed to accept them? Please elaborate.

[ccbatson]

Democrat=liberal.