Can Greektown be saved?

[401don]

With the closings of so many restaurants in Greektown [[Pizza Papalis, Monroe Steakhouse, New Parthenon, Five Guys, Wahlburgers) can anything be done to revive the Monroe strip? Dan Gilbert never made the effort to activate the street the way he promised or has done along Woodward. We all know that it hasn't been a "Greektown" for years and we know about the crime, changing demographics, casino, etc. There's not much point in rehashing the problems. I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions on what new types of restaurants, retail shops, infrastructure, etc. might help to rejuvenate the area. It's a place suburbanites and tourists still visit and has become much more of a negative than positive for downtown. Or maybe we just give up on it and focus on Woodward?

[K-slice]

Close Monroe to car traffic between Brush and At. Antione.
Activate the storefronts on the SE side of the street.
Develop the parking lot dead zones [[including the Monroe Block) between the CM area and Greektown.

You could almost make it like a Freemont Street type of area.

[401don]

Close Monroe to car traffic between Brush and At. Antione.
Activate the storefronts on the SE side of the street.
Develop the parking lot dead zones [[including the Monroe Block) between the CM area and Greektown.

You could almost make it like a Freemont Street type of area.

The problem of course is finding tenants that can be successful. I used to think a restaurant like the Spaghetti Factory or a Chinese restaurant might do well. The problem is it has become such a bar area now that I'm not sure any individual restaurant can make it. It might take several at once, like you suggest, to transform the area and that won't be easy.
Although Gilbert is no longer the owner I still think you need the casino to be involved but that's unlikely.

[stasu1213]

Bring back Trappers Alley and more Greek restaurants, stores, and sit in bakeries that serve coffee. Bring it back to its original roots

[Danny]

Right now Greektown is hanging a thread by Hollywood CaSINo. I don't think some Greek family business owners are not going to quit Detroit and move on just like Polonia, Little Italy, Germantown, Chaldeantown and China Town. Detroit's Greek Community will find a way to make their mark here in Detroit. When downtown development is in full swing thanks to Dan Gilbert. Greeks folks want their piece of the action. Greektown survive through Detroit's Dark Ages and they will be a part of the city's second renaissance.

[Henry Whalley]

...Or maybe we just give up on it...?

Offers were made that couldn't be refused. And sadly, it's never coming back IMHO.

[Danny]

Offers were made that couldn't be refused. And sadly, it's never coming back IMHO.

Detroit's Greek Community will not give up the rest of the hood to anyone.

[Ray1936]

"You could almost make it like a Freemont Street type of area."

Yup! Only if you are here in Las Vegas as am I, it has only one 'e'. Fremont. Named for an early Nevada explorer.

Forgive me. But my history teacher is beaming in her grave.

[mkd]

Bring back Trappers Alley and more Greek restaurants, stores, and sit in bakeries that serve coffee. Bring it back to its original roots

Greektown's original roots are German, with St. Mary's being the most prominent reminder today

[Gistok]

The Festival Marketplace feature of Trappers Alley had its' heyday, but fell out of favor by the masses. I remember 5 floors of restaurants and small boutiques. It was nice, but people stopped coming.

[GPCharles]

I prefer to call it "Greek Block."

[401don]

The Festival Marketplace feature of Trappers Alley had its' heyday, but fell out of favor by the masses. I remember 5 floors of restaurants and small boutiques. It was nice, but people stopped coming.

A lot of people, including myself, would wander through but I'm not sure how much stuff people actually bought. Remember Martina Navritilova's tennis shop?

[masterblaster]

The Five Guys has actually re-opened.

Close Monroe to car traffic between Brush and At. Antione.
Activate the storefronts on the SE side of the street.
Develop the parking lot dead zones [[including the Monroe Block) between the CM area and Greektown.

You could almost make it like a Freemont Street type of area.

Stasu and K-Slice have some great ideas! Absolutely need to activate the storefronts on the south side of Monroe past the Cold Stone Creamery.

Detroit's Greek Community will not give up the rest of the hood to anyone.

I think there is some truth to this. Last Saturday night, the Exodus Night Club had a Greek night, with Greek music and Greek folks, so to some extent, the Greek community is still invested in Greektown.

I think the reputation of Greektown on Detroityes is more negative than the general public's perception of Greektown.

I also think they missed a great opportunity to create a cool outdoor plaza at Monroe & Broadway, if you compare it to this nice outdoor plaza in Toronto's Greektown on Danforth Street

[Rocket]

The death warrant was signed decades ago when the casino moved in, and then didn't leave like it promised it would.

Occupying all the shopping district that was Trappers Alley was supposed to be temporary, until they built permanent digs behind it. That never happened, so we traded a vibrant shopping and restaurant area for gambling addicts and dying restaurants.

If the casino had been built behind it, and we had hotels, parking structure, Trappers Alley and a casino all connected by heated overhead walkways, and that in turn connected to the people mover, it would be a destination for locals and out of towner's alike.

Then again, casinos kill pretty much everything connected to them. The crowd that does hockey games, Cobo Hall conventions, shopping, Greek fare etc are a different crowd than those that chain smoke cigarettes and gamble away their paycheck at a slot machine.

[401don]

The Five Guys has actually re-opened.

That's good to hear. They have a great location on the corner along with casino access. With Wahlburgers gone they should be able to make a go of it.

[JonWylie]

I get Greektown isn't probably what is used to be, but that doesn't mean it is worse. It it an insanely popular nightlife district, probably the most popular in the City. There are also some strong plans to increase the residential elements of it in the future, including the near completed 16 story apartment building. Gilbert is also getting in on it with the jail and Frank Murphy, which will likely further enhance the residential and entertainment aspect of it.

[royce]

Yeah, the casino has played a big part in the demise of Greektown. They were supposed to offer store fronts along Monroe between St. Antoine and the Chrysler service drive when they built the hotel and parking deck, but that didn't happen. Then they built another parking deck on Macomb Street [[the street immediately north of Monroe Street). It would have been nice to have some additional storefronts on that street.

As a few here have suggested, the southside of Monroe needs to have more store fronts after Cold Stone. Also, they[[city or casino) took away the street parking next to St. Mary's Church on Monroe. Those few parking spaces added foot traffic to the area and it felt safer. Now, once you hit St. Antoine, that's it for the foot traffic, unless you're going to the hotel or parking deck.

I would also add that the crime issue is keeping people away as well. The presence of Buffalo Wild Wings and Five Guys attracts a younger crowd. When you have a younger crowd frequenting an area, you're gonna have more incidents of violence. Think of it as the Northland Mall, Eastland Mall predicament. Stepping up police presence is the only solution to deterring the violence.

Overall, the presence of different kinds of restaurants to me has been a good thing for Greektown. I like attending the sports bar Three Legged Goat, Level One, Red Smoke BBQ and of course Cold Stone and Astoria Bakery. When I feel like Greek food I will go to Pegasus and Niki's Greek Pizza. Other ethnic-food restaurants would be a plus.

One final caveat is residential. It would be great to get more residential in the area such as the redevelopment of the old police headquarters or new construction on a few of the surface lots. Once I-375 is turned into a boulevard, you'll have a chance to build some more residential that can create the foot traffic needed on Monroe from the East.

BTW, I sometimes take a long time to write my posts so I have to do them piecemeal because there is a time limit on how long you can write a post. I've learned that the hard way a few times so I discovered if you finish your writing in the edit mode, you'll have more time to write. So forgive me if you see a post one way and then see it edited later. That's why.

[401don]

Yeah, the casino has played a big part in the demise of Greektown. They were supposed to offer store fronts along Monroe between St. Antoine and the Chrysler service drive when they built the hotel and parking deck, but that didn't happen. Then they built another parking deck on Clinton Street [[the street immediately north of Monroe Street). It would have been nice to have some additional storefronts on that street. And the southside of Monroe needs to have more store fronts. Also, they[[city or casino) took away the street parking next to St. Mary's Church. Those few parking spaces added foot traffic to the area and it felt safer. Now, once you hit St. Antoine, that's it for the foot traffic, unless you're going to the hotel or parking deck.

They did build storefronts on the south side. There was a jewellery store in one of them for a while. I wonder if it is just a case of not being able to find tenants, not marketing the availability or both. It's not like the empty restaurants on the north side are being filled quickly either.

[stasu1213]

Trapper’s Alley closed due to the building was purchased by Greektown Casino. Many of the spaces on the upper levels that once housed small storefronts are still not in use.

[401don]

Trapper’s Alley closed due to the building was purchased by Greektown Casino. Many of the spaces on the upper levels that once housed small storefronts are still not in use.

The casino was hardly the best use for the space but it was almost empty when they bought it.

[Gistok]

^Correct 401don... by the time Greektown Casino came around, Trappers Alley was already almost dead. The Casino didn't kill Trappers... the lack of patrons did. This is even more true of the International Marketplace building [which houses Fishbones]... the Greek owners put a fancy entrance onto the Beaubien St. side facing Trappers Alley, and even added the Atheneum Hotel... but that was never enough to get foot traffic to add small stores on that side of the building. Even the huge atrium of the building with the 10 story waterfall, did little to help the area. Great ideas and money spent on development... but it just didn't pan out when it came to foot traffic or customers.

We can justifiably blame the casino for some of the Monroe St. woes of Greektown today... but Trappers Alley and International Marketplace were already on life supports before the casino opened.

[Warrenite84]

IMHO Greektown has definitely lost its luster for me. Reminds me of Hill Valley circa alternate 1985 with the Biff Tanner Casino nearby. Too much of its Greektown character has been lost.

Less crazy bar scene, more Greek restaurants, cafes, or Eastern Mediterranean choices. I'd like a Pizza Uno for the Pizza Papalis location.

Casino must assist in helping revive the neighborhood it has crushed.

Yes, the casino MUST accommodate parking for the area losing the civic parking garage. NOT just for casino patrons only. That was a big factor that drove me away along with crime. Greektown was the perennial parking spot for the Auto Show events along with Autorama. We always spent dining bucks at The Golden Fleece since 1981 going to those shows.

[EGrant]

The casino doesn't give a damn about the surrounding areas, in my opinion. They are incentivized to keep people inside, wasting their savings away in windowless rooms without clocks.

Detroit casinos are some of the saddest places I've ever been. They're not full of happy vacationers with disposable income like Las Vegas; it's your grandma dragging her oxygen tank around, mindlessly playing the slots. They are predatory institutions where the odds are literally stacked against the customers, all in a city with a median income of $21K.

[swingline]

Solutions for Greektown won't be easy. Royce has identified the two areas of focus that might lead to improvement: increased residential population and crime/safety. Unfortunately, in the past 5 years the area has become a warm weather evening destination for the age 16-35 crowd that is not really interested in quiet socializing with a few of their friends. Instead this crowd tends to form large, loud groups that too often seek out conflict. It's a situation not conducive to a healthy mixed use neighborhood economy. Folks who want to safely spend some money tend to stay away. How does a community discourage unruly non-spending citizens from using its neighborhood as a meet-up while attracting folks who just want to casually shop, eat and drink? Increasing law enforcement presence may not be the solution. People aren't necessarily attracted to an area "crawling" with cops. More apartments in the neighborhood might help reduce this problem by adding a "local" presence to the street scene. Then again maybe not. It will be years before a meaningful increase of units could take place. A difficult problem definitely exists though. Hopefully the stakeholders can find some solutions.

[louis]

Greektown can't even really be called a neighborhood because the only people housed there are at the county jail! Well, at least until the Exchange opens. The Greektown of today is nothing more than a park-and-play office park with a dash of nightlife. Not too dissimilar to Novi's Fountain Walk over by 12 Oaks Mall.

If we want to save it, we need to turn it back into a neighborhood. Thankfully, a masterplan was drawn up in 2019 to provide a framework forward for the area. As of last February, the head of the org gave a speech at the Detroit Regional chambers saying the plan was moving forward and they had secured funding to redo and expand the plaza on Randolph and have been moving forward with plans to convert Monroe into a partially pedestrianized street.

The org want more mid-rise residential to infill the parking lots along Macomb St, with a mixed use replacing the Jails once they move to Ferry St.

Here is the masterplan for those interested: https://detroitmi.gov/sites/detroitm...alDocument.pdf