Michigan population declines for second consecutive year

[Airforceguy]

"Michigan remains the nation's 10th most-populous state, as of the recent data trailing behind Georgia and North Carolina. California and Texas are the most populous.The bureau estimates Michigan lost 3,391 people between 2021, with 10,037,504 to 10,034,113 in 2022.
In 2020, the state estimated to have 10,077,325 people — a 43,212-person decline in the last two years.

The data was released in a new report by the bureau stating that growth in the U.S. population shows early indication of recovery amid the COVID-19 pandemic. The U.S. resident population increased by 0.4%.
“There was a sizeable uptick in population growth last year compared to the prior year’s historically low increase,” said Kristie Wilder, a demographer in the Population Division at the Census Bureau, in a press release. “A rebound in net international migration, coupled with the largest year-over-year increase in total births since 2007, is behind this increase.”
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...s/69752074007/

[401don]

Retired people are either dying or moving to Florida. I'm amazed how many Michiganders I meet when I'm down there vacationing for a couple of weeks. Those auto pensions Obama saved gave a lot of people a chance to retire there.

[oladub]

Michigan offers good recreation, a skilled industrial workforce, and good land-grant universities. Michigan seems suited to make forays into robotic manufacturing markets if tariffs were put on foreign products.

[313WX]

Michigan offers good recreation, a skilled industrial workforce, and good land-grant universities. Michigan seems suited to make forays into robotic manufacturing markets if tariffs were put on foreign products.

Michigan also has strong unions, which scares away manufacturers.

[ABetterDetroit]

Michigan also has strong unions, which scares away manufacturers.

The fifty year old excuse.

If a race to the bottom of low wages is some sort of magic elixir why hasn’t it worked yet? We have been winning that race. But of course let’s ignore the fact that most of the other low wage states have shit economic growth.

The problem is doing the same stupid crap for decades and expecting different results.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ries_by_income

[Richard]

Florida is considered a low wage state

28	Michigan	$32,892	$53,259	$47,982	$59,584	$75,703	10,077,331	3,969,880	2,496,550
29	Florida	$32,887	$55,675	$50,194	$59,227	$71,348	21,538,187	7,905,832	5,083,272

No unions and not much difference between medium incomes with no state taxes verses Michigan.

Economic growth in Florida is 3.1 verses Michigan 1.7 which ranks 50th in the country.

Kinda dispels the theory of low wage states having shot economic growth.

In March alone Florida added 4500 manufacturing jobs,not automotive related,but yet people keep saying manufacturing is dead.

I agree,doing the same stupid crap for decades and expecting different results is not working.

[Richard]

Michigan offers good recreation, a skilled industrial workforce, and good land-grant universities. Michigan seems suited to make forays into robotic manufacturing markets if tariffs were put on foreign products.

Or at the very minimum fair trade.

We want cheap crap,it comes from overseas,in return we get a service economy that pays service economy wages.

Really the American consumer is getting what they ask for then turn around and complain that the standard of living is not acceptable and then demand a higher wage for non skilled jobs in order to maintain a standard of living that they will never achieve by their own making.

Besides,fair trade or tariffs are racist,that’s my story and I am sticking to it even if it takes making us a third world country in the process.

The money is only a small part of why people leave,one can be poor but happy as long as they can put their hand in their pocket and pay their way.

Amazing how back in the day,while the rest of the country was dealing with dust bowls and severe poverty,in Michigan unskilled labor was making 70k a year when the average wage was 5k every place else.

[renf]

The issue of very slow population growth in Michigan is a serious one. On the one hand, if our population continues to decline, some environmental concerns may lessen since we will drive many fewer cars and use much less electricity.
On the other hand, population growth is typically a powerful economic stimulant in a developed economy. I am surprised that the issue of declining population was not discussed this year's campaigns for governor.

Compared to other states, Michigan is a low fertility, high mortality state. We continue to lose population in the exchange with other states and the
state attracts a rather small share of international migrants.

Michigan is now following the pattern of many other states in offering substantial tax reductions to firms who locate here with the hope that
there will be job creation which will lead to some population growth.

[K-slice]

Population stability, or very minimal growth is something to strive for in the short term, and in inevitability in the long term. We need to learn how an economy can function without endless population growth, the associated exurban sprawl, and environmental damage.

Sunbelt states that are booming now will be facing the harsh reality of drought and rising sea levels in 10 or so years. The issues they're having today are just coming attractions. See where those Arizonans go when they aren't allowed their giant pools and green lawns.

[mkd]

This isn't a new problem in Michigan. Our population at the 2000 census was 9.9 million, then 9.8 million in 2010, and we finally managed to hit 10 million in 2020.

In the same time period, GA has gone from 8.2 mil to 10.7 mil, NC from 8.1 mil to 10.5 mil, WA from 5.9 mil to 7.7 mil, MN from 4.9 mil to 5.7 mil, FL from 16 mil to 21.5 mil, TN from 5.7 mil to 6.9 mil, TX from 20.8 mil to 29.1 mil, etc.

[Satiricalivory]

Estimates during the covid era are basically meaningless. And that number is so laughably small, it's a statistical error.

[stasu1213]

No regional mass transit nut instead the Governor is still focusing on fixing the damn roads that are still under construction after four years

[softailrider]

All things considered, I think Michigan is a great place to live - nothing like Michigan summers. If you can get out of here December, January and February it’s even better.

[Former_Detroiter]

No regional mass transit nut instead the Governor is still focusing on fixing the damn roads that are still under construction after four years

What is mass transit nut?

[Henry Whalley]

Our population at the 2000 census was 9.9 million, then 9.8 million in 2010, and we finally managed to hit 10 million in 2020.

Decline is also due to COVID deaths, high infant mortality, fentanyl deaths, and decreased life expectancy for all demographics. IIRC the U.S. has the worst life expectancy in the developed world.

[royce]

Slightly off topic, but what were the top 25 cities in the U.S. according to the 2020 census and where did Detroit rank? I never saw those statistics and I've been curious to see which cities surpassed Detroit. Nashville and Memphis were right on our heals so I'm assuming they have surpassed us. If you can get the info, I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

[Jimaz]

Slightly off topic, but what were the top 25 cities in the U.S. according to the 2020 census and where did Detroit rank?....

This might fill the bill.

The 200 Largest Cities in the United States by Population 2022

[313WX]

Slightly off topic, but what were the top 25 cities in the U.S. according to the 2020 census and where did Detroit rank? I never saw those statistics and I've been curious to see which cities surpassed Detroit. Nashville and Memphis were right on our heals so I'm assuming they have surpassed us. If you can get the info, I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

As of the 2020 census, Detroit proper was the 26th largest.

Metro Detroit is still the 14th largest for now, and *MIGHT* [[barely) hold that spot through 2030.

[ShadowSoarer]

It is complex issue but if Detroit continues losing population then Michigan’s population will continue to be stagnant or decline. Grand Rapids area growth isn’t going to be enough to offset Metro Detroit’s population decline/stagnation. If you ask people out of state to name cities in Michigan a lot of times they can only name Detroit and they only associate negative things with the city.

Immigration is also going to be a factor. Cities like Dearborn and Novi would’ve likely either stayed stagnant or lost population [[for 2020) if it weren’t for the Arab and Asian population growth.

[Lowell]

It is more significant to look Metro Detroit vs. Detroit alone. By that size standard it is 14th in the US at around 4.37 million.

But we are an International metropolis. Add in Metro Windsor-Essex and its .42 million and we bump up to 12th.

[401don]

General question: Are attitudes changing in Michigan or the U.S. in general toward immigration? Here in Ontario I believe most people now understand the need for a large flow of immigrants due to an aging population and shortage of workers, both skilled and unskilled. It's mostly the taxes paid by current employees that pays for retirees' gov't pensions.
It would seem to make sense for Michigan to encourage immigrants and help them financially for a couple of years. They certainly pay a lot per employee to subsidize companies to bring jobs to the state.
One thing I do not understand in Canadian immigration however is why everyone ends up in Toronto, Montreal & Vancouver where there is a shortage of transportation, housing, etc. Why not encourage immigrants to live in less populated areas? There are plenty of ways to do that.

[Henry Whalley]

Are attitudes changing in Michigan or the U.S. in general toward immigration?

Dunno, but I've always favored immigration. I welcome some groups more than others, though. We don't need MI-13 gangs, or other criminal elements from south of the border. In general, immigrants seem to do a better job of raising, educating and civilizing their children than Americans do. It seems to be a lost art or science among American born subcultures.

P.S. Always admired Canada's point system.

[Gistok]

I view these metro area statistics with a grain of salt. They don't factor in such items as surrounding areas that are not included in the metro statistics because they are considered their own metro statistics areas.

Some metro areas are HUGE.... Phoenix includes an area that makes it as big as Michigan's thumb... about 15K sq. mi. Atlanta as well with 34 counties included in the metro area.

If the Detroit statistics were to include Windsor, as well as the Flint, Ann Arbor, and Toledo metro areas [still not even being as big as areas like metro Phoenix and Atlanta]... then you could add 0.42 million [Windsor], 0.65 million Toledo, 0.404 million [Flint], and 0.365 million [Ann Arbor]. That would take Detroit to over 6 million, and still be smaller than the Phoenix metro area.

So the term "metro area" is limited by the fact that there might be other metro areas nearby.

[Richard]

General question: Are attitudes changing in Michigan or the U.S. in general toward immigration? Here in Ontario I believe most people now understand the need for a large flow of immigrants due to an aging population and shortage of workers, both skilled and unskilled. It's mostly the taxes paid by current employees that pays for retirees' gov't pensions.
It would seem to make sense for Michigan to encourage immigrants and help them financially for a couple of years. They certainly pay a lot per employee to subsidize companies to bring jobs to the state.
One thing I do not understand in Canadian immigration however is why everyone ends up in Toronto, Montreal & Vancouver where there is a shortage of transportation, housing, etc. Why not encourage immigrants to live in less populated areas? There are plenty of ways to do that.

I do not think there is a shortage of workers,in the states anyways,when you can make 40k on the public dole and live in places most service workers cannot afford to,it becomes a shortage of incentives to work.

I have been self employed for almost 40 years and it has always been hard to find good help and that phrase was coined long before me.

As a rule immigrants migrate towards the larger cities because of the support structures in place,you could not send 500,000 newly arrived immigrants to Detroit as a city for example because the current residents could not afford to support them for the couple of years it would take for them to be established,plus there needs to be enough businesses that can pay cash under the table verses a small town with limited opportunities.

Catholic Charities is the government contractor of sorts in the U.S. for helping recently arrived immigrants to get established,they only have locations in certain major cities.

For the majority they are coming here for the opportunity that they could never achieve in their country of origin.

People are not anti immigration,it’s a phrase to use in order to make it a political football,people are frustrated because the system does not get fixed and the floodgates get opened,it’s like anything else when you can put a face on something it gives a target.

Its nothing new,during the depression California systematically kicked all the Mexicans out,they were the ones that actually built the cities,some were established homeowners for many years,they also got kicked out.

A large influx of immigrants now is not going to offset the costs,it will be 30 years before the impact will be felt.The boomers are the largest population,once we die off everything will change and most of us came from large families of 6 kids where as it is becoming more popular not to have kids or even for some to figure out if they are even the right gender capable of having kids or even what the necessary parts are for.

It’s hard to nail down exactly why people flock to other parts of the country,so many diverse reasons but everything becomes a trade off when it comes to local,sure Florida is nice because you can be outside instead of trapped inside during the winter months,but then you have the summer where you spend time going from A/C to A/C so you are still trapped in a sense,the only difference is you do not have that depressing grey sky’s of winter.

If the question is could immigrants offset the population loss in Detroit,I guess it could but it would be expensive and take years and you would still have to figure out what to do with the uneven those who pay in verses those who do not,and that goes back to the anti immigration aspect,people do not like it when they go to work in order to have a better life while knowing a percentage of those hours worked go to providing an income to somebody else so they can have a better life without actually working for it.

The part of immigrants that would actually help Detroit would be asylum immigrants from certain countries,I know quite a few that are now cleaning timeshares and working low paid service jobs that were doctors,lawyers,petro engineers etc that were highly educated in their country of birth,so you would not only be bringing somebody with skills you would be raising the standard of thinking,but that would actually be considered detrimental because they fled socialist policies and they are not liberal minded as a majority.

So the politics would not allow it,that’s the problem,politicians are more concerned about their survival that cities across the country are being laid to waste at the cost of millions of peoples lives.

There should be zero reason for anybody to want to flee anywhere in this country,outside of retirement,if people are content they have no reason to leave.

I agree with population counts should be taken with a grain of salt,it’s just a rough guide,there is no way to track everybody or count everybody when there are millions that do not want to be counted in the first place.

[mkd]

Decline is also due to COVID deaths, high infant mortality, fentanyl deaths, and decreased life expectancy for all demographics. IIRC the U.S. has the worst life expectancy in the developed world.

COVID and fentanyl cannot explain our now decades' long stagnation and decline. The people who are here can't be bothered to have kids, people from other states don't want to move here, and immigrants to this country would rather make their starts elsewhere. That's where we've been, where we are, and where we'll continue to be while we watch other states prosper.