Why Detroit matters

**Detroitgayhistoryguy** · September-14-09, 07:24 PM

I see allot of suburban people on here and just in general have this same old "Screw Detroit, I live in the suburbs" attitude. This is a problem that we've had for a few decades now. The results have been disastrous. The fact that the city of Detroit has such a bad national reputation negatively effects all of southeast Michigan. If you live in Macomb Twp, Holly, West Bloomfield, Trenton, Flat Rock, etc, the fact that Detroit is such a mess does effect you. Think of this: you've got a billionaire/CEO businessman in New York who is thinking of where he can locate a new office or business. He has the whole country to choose from. He probably does not know that Troy, MI is nice, all he thinks about when Detroit is mentioned is the bad reputation that Detroit has nationally. Second, he has to be able to attract talent to work at his new office/business location. Most college educated people who are not from Michigan have a negative view of Detroit. They don't know what Troy, MI is! They just know that Detroit is bad and they don't want to move here to work. This is why the city of Detroit does matter to everyone in southeast Michigan. My point is this: Everyone in southeast Michigan has to care about the revitalization of the city of Detroit. It does effect everyone in the region.

**detmsp** · September-14-09, 09:13 PM

Well telling people that they are the problem and that they need to change is a real great way to not win them over.

**7miledog** · September-14-09, 09:17 PM

My personal feeling is that we are currently living through the first time America has experienced the death of a major city. People say without Detroit the rest of the state will suffer. If recent history is any indication, that is probably true. But I think it is still too early to tell.

**bike4beer** · September-14-09, 09:32 PM

I am a suburbanite that definitely does not say "screw detroit". If I am not at work or sleeping I am generally in the city. I am also someone that trys to get the surburbanites that you are referring to to change their minds/attitudes about the city. I have talked to more then a few suburbanites that think that the will be killed if they even step foot in the city. How can I convince people otherwise?

2blocksaway · September-14-09, 09:54 PM

Thank you Captain Obvious.

Retroit · September-14-09, 10:00 PM

Screw New York, I live in Detroit.

crawford · September-14-09, 10:11 PM

Sorry I don't buy this.

First thing, just because someone lives outside the city doesn't mean they hate Detroit, and just because someone lives inside the city doesn't mean they like Detroit.

Second, the decisionmakers for major facilities tend not to be idiots. They can distinguish between Bloomfield Hills and Blightmoor.

Every U.S. metropolitan area has wealth and slums, and decisonmakers know this.

**Detroitgayhistoryguy** · September-14-09, 10:57 PM

I didn't say that everyone in the suburbs hates Detroit. All I'm saying is that everyone in southeast Michigan needs to care about the revitalization of the city of Detroit. I think the people in Lansing need to realize this as well. We have got to make the city of Detroit better or everyone in the region suffers.

@Crawford: Most decision makers outside of Detroit and are not from Michigan, have a negative view of Detroit. PLUS, they talent that they need to to attract also has a negative view of Detroit. Suburb or not. All they hear is Detroit, they don't know what Bloomfield Hills is. They hear Detroit and they think "dump"

**Det_ard** · September-15-09, 10:53 AM

Most decision makers are smarter than you. C-level executives know every major metropolitan area has very nice areas for the wealthy, no matter how crappy the central city. I've heard transferees comment that compared to other metros, Detroit has "world class suburbs". For the 75% of the populace that wants to live in the suburbs, that's a selling point. For the more urban oriented Detroit does have a pretty bad reputation.

Would a revitalized Detroit help? Sure. Just don't assume business leaders are totally ignorant about how people can live in the Detroit metro. I'm sure they don't think Bill Ford and Roger Penske are living in a crumbling shack at Mack and Bewick.

**Detroitgayhistoryguy** · September-15-09, 05:46 PM

Ok, ask graduating students from UCLA or NYU what they would think about taking a job in Detroit. You would get laughed out of the room. If you can't attract talent to a city, then the decision makers will not invest in new business there.

**vetalalumni** · September-15-09, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitgayhistoryguy

Ok, ask graduating students from UCLA or NYU what they would think about taking a job in Detroit. You would get laughed out of the room. If you can't attract talent to a city, then the decision makers will not invest in new business there.

One exception is those grads seeking to be a big fish in a little pond. There are other exceptions such as financial incentives.

**Detroitgayhistoryguy** · September-15-09, 06:06 PM

There are always going to be exceptions, but ask college grads from around the country [[who are not from Michigan) and I'd bed 99% of them would laugh and say the very idea of locating in Detroit is laughable. Meaning it would be one of the last choices on their list for a place to want to locate for a job.

**jams** · September-15-09, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitgayhistoryguy

There are always going to be exceptions, but ask college grads from around the country [[who are not from Michigan) and I'd bed 99% of them would laugh and say the very idea of locating in Detroit is laughable. Meaning it would be one of the last choices on their list for a place to want to locate for a job.

Just beating out Billings, Montana.

**Detroitgayhistoryguy** · September-15-09, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by jams

Just beating out Billings, Montana.

Which goes back to my original point. The city of Detroit's national image matters to everyone in southeast Michigan. You can't live in a suburb and say "screw Detroit" ... your screwing yourself. Which is why everyone in the region has to get together and help fix the city of Detroit's problems. I think the News/Free Press have done a good job of staying on top of corruption stories, and they need to continue. We have to get Lansing involved, instead of them also saying "screw Detroit" As long as the city of Detroit has a bad national image, we all suffer.

**Tripper** · September-15-09, 08:26 PM

As a Detroiter who never wanted to leave...but had to to find a job....Detroit is always my hometown. I am on city # two [[Chicago then Boise, Idaho) but I never fail to say good things about the Motor City...return every year to see the Tigers and spend some time to reconnect. In Boise we have annual "Detroiters in Boise" parties. I will always be a Detroiter.

**Det_ard** · September-16-09, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitgayhistoryguy

There are always going to be exceptions, but ask college grads from around the country [[who are not from Michigan) and I'd bed 99% of them would laugh and say the very idea of locating in Detroit is laughable. Meaning it would be one of the last choices on their list for a place to want to locate for a job.

You're right. Coastal college grads avoid Detroit like the plague. Chicago is also thought of as second-rate compared to NYC, SF, Boston, London, etc., even though as urban living goes it's far better than Detroit.

What makes Detroit's poor reputation among coastal college grads less important to a company is the fact that recent college grads are seldom a key success factor to a company. Recent college grads don't like to hear this, of course, and you may be one, but few companies rise or fall based on their under-25 work force. The real movers and shakers are the boring middle-aged guys who do boring things like raise families, mow their suburban lawns, go to junior's little league games, increase market share, ink new joint venture contracts, buy and sell divisions, patent new technologies, open a Chinese sales office, monitor offshore production facilities and increase profitability.

These guys matter and they're not going to dismiss Detroit or other unglamorous places out of hand. They know they can have an enjoyable career and lifestyle just about anywhere. They don't need to live in some urban Disneyland to feel alive.

**agirlintheD** · September-16-09, 11:05 AM

Personally, I think if you've never lived in Detroit, you will never understand how deeply the city gets in your soul. There's just something about it. We've seen what it was...we see what it has become...which is probably why we get so damned pissed off with the stories of firebombings, shootings, unsolved crimes, beautiful pieces of architectural history being turned into a heap of rubble, delapitated buildings/homes standing empty, inviting scrappers....we've heard the jokes, we've probably told some, we've seen the national news stories, we've watched as fires blaze out of control and know that we've lost another piece of our city, we've seen part of who we are turn into a memory in our mind. Why does Detroit matter? Because it does. You wouldn't understand.

**7051** · September-16-09, 02:39 PM

Crawford [[and anyone else who thinks that transit, successful urban areas and related amenities don't attract companies and their needed workers),

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090916/...s_wealth_young

"What often happens is that those factors attract the young and educated who then end up staying," he explained.

"Sixteen of the top 50 counties in the United States with the highest share of wealthy young people are in the Washington, D.C. area"

Interesting on how this area has a lot of good jobs...might transit orientation and successful urban areas play a role in attracting the young [[who are the most mobile), which attract employers, which attract employees, etc. etc.

Today's "wealthy young people" become tommorrow's "decision makers" and those in charge.

As Crawford said in another thread "he lives in NYC because the job he wants is not here [[Michigan/Detroit). " Why isn't that industry/employer here? Enough said.

**vetalalumni** · September-16-09, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

You're right. Coastal college grads avoid Detroit like the plague. Chicago is also thought of as second-rate compared to NYC, SF, Boston, London, etc., even though as urban living goes it's far better than Detroit.

What makes Detroit's poor reputation among coastal college grads less important to a company is the fact that recent college grads are seldom a key success factor to a company. Recent college grads don't like to hear this, of course, and you may be one, but few companies rise or fall based on their under-25 work force. The real movers and shakers are the boring middle-aged guys who do boring things like raise families, mow their suburban lawns, go to junior's little league games, increase market share, ink new joint venture contracts, buy and sell divisions, patent new technologies, open a Chinese sales office, monitor offshore production facilities and increase profitability.

These guys matter and they're not going to dismiss Detroit or other unglamorous places out of hand. They know they can have an enjoyable career and lifestyle just about anywhere. They don't need to live in some urban Disneyland to feel alive.

Cogent remarks Det_ard. Thanks.

"Superstar" new grads in the Detroit metro area are [[or have been) heavily recruited [[away) by the likes of American Express, Proctor & Gamble, and 3M. Ford, GM, Chrysler, and Compuware have not always been as aggressive. And the smaller suburban companies, even as far out as A2, are typically less strategic [[budget) in this regard. Personal recommendations are far from always fair, however they decrease risks. Entrepreneurs might sweeten deals with autonomy, equity, and other perks [[i.e. telecommuting, flex-hours, indirect non-financial prestige).

Boise, Boulder, and Austin have also been attractive to new grads for many years.

lilpup · September-16-09, 02:51 PM

Get real - Washington D.C. is *not* attracting people due to its transit system and there's no way the nation's capital will be relocated to an international border city.

**313WX** · September-16-09, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

Get real - Washington D.C. is *not* attracting people due to its transit system and there's no way the nation's capital will be relocated to an international border city.

The point WAS Washington's good urban planning is much more attractive to the younger generation than Detroit's [[largely) suburban infrastructure.

You can't tell me you can travel from Metro Airport to Downtown Detroit to Somerset Mall to Metro Beach without a car easily and in reasonable time without purchasing a car.

crawford · September-16-09, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by 7051

Crawford [[and anyone else who thinks that transit, successful urban areas and related amenities don't attract companies and their needed workers),

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090916/...s_wealth_young

"What often happens is that those factors attract the young and educated who then end up staying," he explained.

"Sixteen of the top 50 counties in the United States with the highest share of wealthy young people are in the Washington, D.C. area"

Interesting on how this area has a lot of good jobs...might transit orientation and successful urban areas play a role in attracting the young [[who are the most mobile), which attract employers, which attract employees, etc. etc.

Today's "wealthy young people" become tommorrow's "decision makers" and those in charge.

As Crawford said in another thread "he lives in NYC because the job he wants is not here [[Michigan/Detroit). " Why isn't that industry/employer here? Enough said.

You are confusing correlation and causation, and missing the metric being evaluated.

This study does not look at cities or metros; it looks at counties. And it does not look at raw numbers; it looks at percentages.

Therefore, small, heavily white-collar counties will rank the highest. The DC area has many such counties [[Arlington/Alexandra/Falls Church) while big places like LA County are [[not surprisingly) ranked much lower, even if they are no less of a draw to the young and successful.

More important, there is no implied link between transit and attracting the young. The young are attracted to DC for the relatively well-paying jobs and strong economy, not because of the transit.

**EMG** · September-16-09, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitgayhistoryguy

There are always going to be exceptions, but ask college grads from around the country [[who are not from Michigan) and I'd bed 99% of them would laugh and say the very idea of locating in Detroit is laughable. Meaning it would be one of the last choices on their list for a place to want to locate for a job.

You're absolutely correct, but at this point I would say that would be just as much an "anti-Michigan" issue as "anti-Detroit" issue. Michigan is widely known around the country as the WORST state for unemployment, and Dumb Jenny is ridiculed by everyone who isn't stupid enough to believe that a state can tax its way out of a depression. If someone actually has the wherewithal and the ambition to invest in a college education with the hope of a commensurate career, why on God's green earth would they want to live in Michigan [[even if it's 200 miles away from Detroit) and pay those high taxes and have an EXTREMELY difficult time finding ajob when there are so many other places in the country where the taxes are lower, the jobs more plentiful, and even the climate much better?

Frankly, I threw my last snow shovel away almost a decade ago, and believe you me, there isn't a salary an employer could offer me that would be high enough to convince me to come back to Michigan. I'm perfectly content to see the Great Lakes in pictures and the winter weather on video newscasts.

And, from the employer point of view - why would an employer want to set up shop in Michigan? And pay those inflated union wages as well as the high taxes? No way - the smart employer goes to a southern right-to-work state so he can be competitive.

If and when Michigan wakes up, adopts a right-to-work law, and gets real on the tax issue, then and only then will it have a fighting chance - even though unfortunately there isn't much hope for fixing its weather.

**gazhekwe** · September-16-09, 08:26 PM

I've traveled here and there and been in parts of Boston, Baltimore, Portland, OR, and Savannah that were revitalized quite recently. Before and after pix of some of the renovations of some of the buildings were amazing. Pix of the storefronts on the streets before an after were also like night and day. The streets were neat and clean, the storefronts were all active and vibrant, and the price differences for the housing were stark, from buildings initially going for under six figures, to upper six figures for just one floor condos. In Boston, there was very little parking available, but there were food shops every few blocks, florists, dry cleaners, restaurants. There was a down side, as people continue to wring their hands about "gentrification" and where did the prior residents go who were priced out?

Winter Park FL is another smaller town just outside Orlando where that is happening.