Interstate 375 to be transformed into street level boulevard

[southen]

“Scholars and academics are on my side guys even though I can’t even regurgitate any of their points even a little they’re on my side” Everytime you and I have a little back and forth you some how sink lower at the end.

Okay I will help you out since you clearly can't google.

https://www.google.com/search?q=free...hrome&ie=UTF-8

From there you can see which reputable news organizations have written on the topic and which institutions have researched and come to the conclusion that I am reiterating. Now you will have to click those links and it will require some reading. I know you are looking for some quick hitting bullet points or the simplicity of calling something "retarded" instead of well researched evidence but I promise you you can do it. Enjoy.

[oladub]

There are scholars who have written on this topic ad nauseam but you got an issue with Democrats so I guess it never happened.

Eminent domain often hurts but it does not hurt on the basis of melatonin levels. Roads are not racist. I wrote in my previous post that the same money spent on education would be a better investment.

Your unnamed "scholars" remind me of the experts who said tobacco was safe. Foreign Marxists can't even imagine stuff like this if they wanted to bring down this country. Spending millions of dollars trashing expensive infrastructure is not going to lead to bucolic scenes of smiling people wandering around or bicycling on trails that architect drawings show when they want to sell a project. There are already plenty of vacant areas in Detroit to build whatever. Put in a couple of more bridges to unite formerly joined neighborhoods if you wish if that's really the goal. How long will it take for even the fill to settle before new roads and buildings can be built there? Where is the fill coming from? If there are three lanes in each direction and sidewalks, the buildings on either side of the street will be at least 120' from each other; hardly a neighborhood concept; more like a few blocks of Gratiot. Suburban people won't want to use an expressway that winds up at a stoplight in a black neighborhood because of fear or racism so their destination will be cut off which brings us to another round of roads cutting neighborhoods off. This is so poorly thought out. There will be a lot of construction contracts moving dirt around and adding some buildings. Those contractors need to be generous with politicians who filled their wallets. Leave it to Democrats and we would all be in six inches of ruble.

I read the first three of those articles and was not impressed. As I recall, churches, housing and businesses were also torn down in white neighborhoods where expressways also split neighborhoods. the articles did not address that. Black people use expressways too. Expressways that have been in place up to 70 years are now part of the landscape and infrastructure. Filling them in, slowing traffic and having more dangerous, mile per mile, surface roads is not a step forward.

[Seven&wyo]

Okay I will help you out since you clearly can't google.

https://www.google.com/search?q=free...hrome&ie=UTF-8

From there you can see which reputable news organizations have written on the topic and which institutions have researched and come to the conclusion that I am reiterating. Now you will have to click those links and it will require some reading. I know you are looking for some quick hitting bullet points or the simplicity of calling something "retarded" instead of well researched evidence but I promise you you can do it. Enjoy.

You completely missed the point of what I was getting at. I said I wanted to know how far back your meter goes as to judge who gets to benefit off who for past crimes relating to prejudice. You didn’t provide any evidence. Secondly I read the first article I saw from NPR and it was pathetic. Yes the freeways went through black and Latino neighborhoods those neighborhoods they didn’t say that they were also violent slums and the people who were forced out a vast majority of them ended up in government housing and welfare ie free college, housing, food and etc so their conditions in life were increased and then those same people trashed those neighborhoods. My good man you need to think harder.

[southen]

Yes inanimate objects aren't racist. Thanks for clearing that up. I guess I should have been more clear that it was the people in government that chose where to place these roads whose policy was racist in some instances. I assumed that was obvious. Oh well.

Is it at all telling that I wasn't the one to bring up political parties or placed blame with one party regarding the issue but you immediately jumped to the defensive as a conservative? I just don't think there is an issue prioritizing minority developers for a plot of land taken away from a policy that targeted them from the get go. I didn't say it was Republicans who did it just as I never said that this cures racism more makes up for what was lost.

[southen]

You completely missed the point of what I was getting at. I said I wanted to know how far back your meter goes as to judge who gets to benefit off who for past crimes relating to prejudice. You didn’t provide any evidence. Secondly I read the first article I saw from NPR and it was pathetic. Yes the freeways went through black and Latino neighborhoods those neighborhoods they didn’t say that they were also violent slums and the people who were forced out a vast majority of them ended up in government housing and welfare ie free college, housing, food and etc so their conditions in life were increased and then those same people trashed those neighborhoods. My good man you need to think harder.

Are we discussing I-375 or racism in this country at large?

Help me out, do you have links to these claims that everyone ended up in better government housing with free college and food in improved conditions? It is also hilarious that you looked at one link from NPR and just labeled it pathetic. I suppose anything put together from people more versed in the subject that conflicts with your view will be pathetic. I guess all of those academics who have devoted their lives to the study of these things just need to think a bit harder and channel message board experts.

[Seven&wyo]

Are we discussing I-375 or racism in this country at large?

Help me out, do you have links to these claims that everyone ended up in better government housing with free college and food in improved conditions? It is also hilarious that you looked at one link from NPR and just labeled it pathetic. I suppose anything put together from people more versed in the subject that conflicts with your view will be pathetic. I guess all of those academics who have devoted their lives to the study of these things just need to think a bit harder and channel message board experts.

Where are these acrdemic papers you speak of cause all I saw were a bunch of anecdote as to what “we” should do to “eradicate racism”. And 375 is a microcosm of a larger discussion yes. Genius

[southen]

Where are these acrdemic papers you speak of cause all I saw were a bunch of anecdote as to what “we” should do to “eradicate racism”. And 375 is a microcosm of a larger discussion yes. Genius

So you clicked the first link to NPR and didn't bother to scroll at all. Genius behavior there.

[southen]

Since you want a comment on the broader issue as a white man I am hesitant to say what should happen as it wasn't my community that was impacted by racism or slavery in this country. Does compensation take the form of a check or is it something like scholarships or favorable home and business loans? I don't know but I am 100% receptive to listening.

[Seven&wyo]

So you clicked the first link to NPR and didn't bother to scroll at all. Genius behavior there.

My good man you’re not paying attention I said I want to know your barometer of how to gage who gets to benefit off who for past digressions and how far back that time period should last. You said there are acedemic papers on the subject and there aren’t any just a bunch of articles about freeways being built and race. I want the barometer.

[royce]

Is there a link you know of to view this material? It sounds like something new that I haven't seen.

As I wasn't able to go, hopefully someone brought up my main thought that the blvd as proposed is toooo wiiiide.

You mentioned about many people complaining about the boulevard being too wide and the number of left turn lanes. I agree that there are too many. I think MDOT is trying to alleviate the Lafayette Park residents' fear about traffic congestion during events, by showing them how easy it will be for event-goers to get in and out of the area. It's overkill. At Lafayette, the left turn lanes basically eliminated any boulevard median. That's ridiculous.

However, looking over the map again, I see that there will not be a left turn lane from Gratiot south of the boulevard to the boulevard. That's a major flaw. Most of any event traffic coming south of the boulevard would be coming from Gratiot south of the boulevard. If you can't turn northbound on to the boulevard from Gratiot, then traffic will have to turn southbound and then use those left lanes to make a Michigan left? I'm going to have to look over the map more closely. Stay tuned.

Edit: there is a link to see the video. It's: michigan.gov/mdot/projects-studies/special-construction/i-375-project

[royce]

You mentioned about many people complaining about the boulevard being too wide and the number of left turn lanes. I agree that there are too many. I think MDOT is trying to alleviate the Lafayette Park residents' fear about traffic congestion during events, by showing them how easy it will be for event-goers to get in and out of the area. It's overkill. At Lafayette, the left turn lanes basically eliminated any boulevard median. That's ridiculous.

However, looking over the map again, I see that there will not be a left turn lane from Gratiot either east or west of the boulevard to the boulevard. That's a major flaw. Most of any event traffic coming west of the boulevard would be coming from Gratiot west of the boulevard. If you can't turn northbound on to the boulevard from Gratiot, then traffic will have to turn southbound and then use those left lanes to make a Michigan left? I'm going to have to look over the map more closely. Stay tuned.

Edit: there is a link to see the video. It's: michigan.gov/mdot/projects-studies/special-construction/i-375-project

Edit: Some changes were made after editing submission time ran out.

[Wesley Mouch]

...snip...but you are telling me that a policy that targeted both of those things for a specific community has no lasting impact and nothing should be done to right that wrong?

Has lasting impact.
Seems like it was targeted.
Yep.
Nothing should be done? Well, not necessarily as part of this particular project. A successful I-375 benefits residents of Detroit. Restoring back to a street is 'something being done'.

The question is whether each and every project should be viewed as an opportunity to correct past wrongs. Or are other things that have been and are being done elsewhere are better state spending at this point.

If there are specific harms that were caused by the creation of I-375, I'm open to lawsuits and class action suits to get capital to those disadvantaged. But getting a good road is all that our highway departments should be doing right now.

[royce]

I was driving along Washington Boulevard and with the way the trees are lined up in the median, I said to myself, "This would actually be a good look for the proposed I-375 boulevard." Again, I have mentioned before that I think the median should be a true median like the one on Moross, or East Grand Boulevard.

BTW, when are the updates on MDOT's last public information session at Eastern Market suppose to come out?

[Danny]

How to turn a freeway into a stroad?

[Junkin4Life]

I have found an interesting article

https://detroitography.com/2022/10/2...l-for-detroit/

[Gistok]

Anyplace in metro Detroit where you have a freeway ending... you have a 6 or 8 lane highway that continues for about a mile... be that the eastern terminus to the Davison Fwy, the southern terminus to the M-53 freeway at 18 Mile, or where I-94/I-69 end in Port Huron. The local road to handle the traffic exiting the freeway end will be WIDE. Not exactly a cyclist paradise, or a great pedestrian way to connect Lafayette Park with downtown.

[oladub]

Is it at all telling that I wasn't the one to bring up political parties or placed blame with one party regarding the issue but you immediately jumped to the defensive as a conservative? I just don't think there is an issue prioritizing minority developers for a plot of land taken away from a policy that targeted them from the get go. I didn't say it was Republicans who did it just as I never said that this cures racism more makes up for what was lost.

I commented as a logical person not trying to throw money at a wall if that's what you mean by conservative. I don't know anything about "minority contractors" being involved nor did I suggest that. I disagree that black neighborhoods were specifically targeted. I-94 plowed through all white neighborhoods from Connors to out past St. Clair Shores. If you think this plan to slow down expressway traffic to build a 1950's like 'neighborhood' across 120 feet of pavement is a better idea than improving Detroit Public School with the same $104.6M then you should be giving Democrats credit.

[royce]

I have found an interesting article

https://detroitography.com/2022/10/2...l-for-detroit/

Interesting article indeed. The idea of ending the Lodge freeway at the Davison really caught my eye. I knew of suggestions to end it near downtown but never that far north. Regarding I-375, the question I have about reparations is: "During the "taking of land through eminent domain, how many African Americans owned land in Black Bottom and if they did, were they fairly compensated for their land?

As oladub pointed out, many white families were forced to give up their homes during the building of I-94. Many Jewish shop owners conducted business in Black Bottom. Were they compensated differently from black shop owners when they were forced to leave the area for the freeway? How do you know who deserves "reparations?" Is it a given that blacks are the only people who should be "made whole" in this process? I'm asking all of these questions because there's a lot of people who think that only blacks were harmed by the building of freeways. I think that's a biased opinion, and in many instances regarding the removal of I-375, people are spending too much time and energy on this issue. The focus should be on how to improve that area with the proposed boulevard.

[Junkin4Life]

So does this mean that I-75 will no longer need an exit to continue on I-75?

Instead of taking '75 through downtown Detroit to Flint, you would take '75 to '96 northbound, and '94 eastbound, and then '75 northbound. John C Lodge fwy [[M-10), from Jefferson to Chicago, would be resurfaced back to Hamilton Avenue as a complete street and would be rerouted to connect to Davison fwy eastbound and then end at '75 northbound/southbound . East Davison would be resurfaced from Dequindre to Conant.

I-75, from Western Market to the Eastern Market, would be resurfaced as Vernor hwy as a complete street

Finally Hastings Avenue would become a complete street project from Atwater to I-94

[Junkin4Life]

As for the portion of the John C Lodge fwy, from Edison Street to Davison, it would also be resurfaced as a complete street project as either Thomson Street or an extension of Trumbull Avenue.

[Gistok]

As for the portion of the John C Lodge fwy, from Edison Street to Davison, it would also be resurfaced as a complete street project as either Thomson Street or an extension of Trumbull Avenue.

SMH... why don't we close both I-75 and the Lodge at I-94 and make them go over to I-96 and then really make I-94 a clusterfuck bottleneck that will require expansion from 3 to 6 lanes, instead of only 4...

[Junkin4Life]

They are working on the i94 to widen it. The project completion will take place in 2036

[Gistok]

They are working on the i94 to widen it. The project completion will take place in 2036

Yup, MDOT rebuilds about 2 bridge overpasses a year, then the train overpasses, and then a total major rebuild of the I-94 Lodge interchange, and modifications to I-75 and I-96 interchanges... and the side walls of the freeway... all before roadway widening can take place.

[Junkin4Life]

Yup, MDOT rebuilds about 2 bridge overpasses a year, then the train overpasses, and then a total major rebuild of the I-94 Lodge interchange, and modifications to I-75 and I-96 interchanges... and the side walls of the freeway... all before roadway widening can take place.

Eventually, the portion of the John C Lodge fwy would become a complete street project as Hamilton Avenue/6th Avenue/ extension of Thomson Street [[from Atkinson Street to Glendale Avenue)

[Junkin4Life]

before...


and after!!!