Woodland Arms & Village Square Apartments

**Grundyke** · September-14-09, 05:22 PM

Both the Woodland Arms and Village Square apartment communities are bank owned properties. I know a very reputable gentleman that owns properties and he and a partner are looking to purchase these two and are mostly going to close within the next two weeks. I will leave their names out of it since nothing is final yet. He knows there are problem tenants, vacancies due to needed repair, and safety concerns due to non-working gates and obvious managment issues. He owns and runs properties in other areas but foresees certain properties in Detroit as good turnarounds due to the REO prices. I know he will follow through, although nothing is completely fixed overnight. Just for my own curiosities, do people here think this is viable, meaning, if he does make a differance, do you think the current tenants and future tenants will make an effort to keep a clean safe environment? He will bring in courteous professional management and complet repairs. He expressed to me that this is a serious project for him as he was born in Detroit and has done business here his whole life. If these two projects work out good for him [[obviously he will need to make money) and gets support after he makes changes, he would like to purchase other properties in Detroit and make some safe, clean communities. Do you think he is wasting his time [[he does not) or can he be succesful? Sorry for the long post but I just thought since he is succesful in other areas and did not need to do anything Detroit that it was nice that he wants to make a differance.

**EastsideAl** · September-14-09, 07:12 PM

Ummm, where are these apartments?

**Lowell** · September-14-09, 07:29 PM

This one on Woodland?
http://www.detroityes.com/webisodes/2008/080410-the50/111-WoodlandApts.htm

**Grundyke** · September-14-09, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Ummm, where are these apartments?

Sorry about leaving that info out. Village Square is a 190 unit complex at 17150 Meyers Rd and Woodland Arms [[not the same as Woodland Apts) has 164 units at 22045-22065 W. Eight Mile Rd.

crawford · September-14-09, 11:17 PM

Those are pretty piss-poor locations, so unless your friend has some Section 8 deal or other government subsidy program lined up, I can't imagine the upside in these deteriorating neighborhoods.

I mean, his potential tenant base is almost guaranteed to deteriorate over time. These neighborhoods are both emptying out and only getting worse.

**Hamtragedy** · September-14-09, 11:35 PM

No no no no no no no no no and no. Walk away. Shaking down tenants while they trash the place before your eyes is no fun, especially after you've made them nice.

In case your friend hasn't realized, the "A" renter pool bought their own houses in the last seven years, and had every intention of paying for it and living in it. They've since been spit-out and are, sadly, at the bottom of the renter pool, which is substantial in this town.

Besides, the tools don't stand a chance.

**Hamtragedy** · September-14-09, 11:41 PM

Oh, and if he's not going to be living here, then most definitely, NO! There's enough of that shit already. It would do better to burn than have absentee landlord after absentee landlord drag the soon to be eye-sore into the next 15 years with starry eyed intentions but no clue, and the surrounding neighbors or neighborhoods have to deal with it.

Walk Away

**Grundyke** · September-14-09, 11:54 PM

They do have section 8. Although they will not be living there they will not be absentee landlords as he personally lives in the metro area and this is what they do for a living. He has many other succesfull properties with great management as he actually oversees the management. He is definatly not paying top dollar to get them either. Probably not even using his own money but that is not my business. He is definatly not stupid nor does he not understand the situation in Detroit. I thank you guys for the opinions so far and would like to know if this is how most people feel or does anyone feel if he puts in effort it can work. I would just hate to think that if nobody ever thinks like him and tries that nothing will ever turn around. On a side note, I too questioned him on his decision but I am 34 and he is 61 and he has had quite a succesfull life so far I definatly took in some knowledge from our conversation.

**cman710** · September-15-09, 10:12 AM

Keep us posted on how his venture goes. I think everyone will want to see how it turns out.

**Grundyke** · September-15-09, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by cman710

Keep us posted on how his venture goes. I think everyone will want to see how it turns out.

Sure thing. Like I said previously they should be closing within the next couple of weeks. He seems to have no concerns over it. I know one of the complexes was listed at $14000 a unit and one was listed at $12000 a unit I believe and if I know him like I think I do he would not pay asking price. My thinking was that although I know you can never get rid of all crime and make everyone happy all the time, that even if he is succesfull to his guildlines we could there could be two more communities that someone actually cares about and make safer for people living there. If that could be done and continue to be done than that is some sort of a start. At least on that block.

**Pcm** · September-15-09, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Grundyke

Village Square is a 190 unit complex at 17150 Meyers Rd and Woodland Arms [[not the same as Woodland Apts) has 164 units at 22045-22065 W. Eight Mile Rd.

Uh, ok.

Forget about that side of town.

Build upon an area that has at least some potential. Midtown? Corktown? Lower east side?

**davewindsor** · September-16-09, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Grundyke

Do you think he is wasting his time [[he does not) or can he be succesful?

I googled Village Square Apartments and recognized the photo from the classifieds section in the Free Press a month ago and wondered about this building myself for the price, but couldn't understand the posted 70%+ vacancy rate. I guess the key to whether he'll be successful or not is by doing a walkabout to competing apartment buildings in the area. Check a dozen mailbox lobbies and see how many vacant apartments there are to occupied ones when looking at all the names next to the intercom. Pick half a dozen buildings and call the for rent sign and get rental prices and ask to see some of the units. For the most part, he's going to be cutting into the market share of his competition. He's probably not going to bring in higher rents and a different calibre of tenant if competing buildings are not. If competing buildings in similar condition and unit size have 50% vacancy rates, he won't achieve a 5% vacancy rate. He's not going to see results far superior to his competition in that area and that's your answer of whether he will be successful or not. Do you know what the vacancy rates are of competing buildings based on your own observations?

**exdetroiter** · September-16-09, 11:46 AM

The only tenants that will rent in those areas are low-income and/or section 8 recipents. Its worth a try if he can afford to take a loss and encounter unreliable tenants of which he would not be able to garnish is the ran out oweing rent. I think he would be better off restoring a couple of buildings in Palmer Park. Those units are huge and have a lot of character. I don't think he would have a hard time renting either, plus that community really deserves to be restored based on it authentic beauty.

**Grundyke** · September-16-09, 03:37 PM

The vacancy rates are 30%-40% with about 5% of tenants not paying. I actually was in the neighborhood today so I drove by. The are acceptable from the outside. Gates have been fixed as well as roofs. Again, he is not a newbie and is looking to buy others as well as soon as he closes. I did find out though that he is getting one of the projects at $7200 a unit and the other at $8400 a unit I believe. I think initially even before all improvements made he would be happy with them paying for themselves [[until renovations made). I know the multifamily on the other side of Northland roller rink is in far worse shape than Woodland Arms that is on the other side of the rink. And to touch upon what exdetroiter said about Palmer Park, I believe he has been looking at a package deal of about 300 or so units there as well but I have no idea what came of that.

crawford · September-16-09, 04:39 PM

Grundyke, it's seems you and your friend have your minds made up, so I'm not sure what you're asking.

Most people on this forum do not think these buildings hold much value, and most agree they will get worse over time.

**Grundyke** · September-16-09, 04:53 PM

I started this thread just looking for opinions. It has nothing to do with my mind being made up or not. As people post more comments [[which I appreciate) I have added my thoughts or knowledge to them. He is doing it either way and knows nothing of this forum, the buyer that is.

**masterblaster** · September-18-09, 04:13 PM

The address of 17150 Meyers, is basically at the 6 Miles/Meyers/Lodge Freeway area, which is really not that bad of an area, at all - nice housing stock, decent library nearby, and interesting office building at the corner of 6 Mile/Meyers. Near the renovated Northwest Activities Center

Also, the 8 Mile location is at Lahser. It is a decent neighborhood, no swaths of vacant lots, lots of strip-mall businesses, near Plum Hollow Golf course.

It's not like those apartments are in Dexter-Davison-Linwood!

Tell me Crawford,

When is the last time you have been over in the McNichols/Meyers/John C Lodge Fwy area of the city of Detroit? and the 8 Mile/Lahser area? How do you know those areas are piss poor?

**Grundyke** · September-18-09, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by masterblaster

The address of 17150 Meyers, is basically at the 6 Miles/Meyers/Lodge Freeway area, which is really not that bad of an area, at all - nice housing stock, decent library nearby, and interesting office building at the corner of 6 Mile/Meyers. Near the renovated Northwest Activities Center

Also, the 8 Mile location is at Lahser. It is a decent neighborhood, no swaths of vacant lots, lots of strip-mall businesses, near Plum Hollow Golf course.

It's not like those apartments are in Dexter-Davison-Linwood!

Tell me Crawford,

When is the last time you have been over in the McNichols/Meyers/John C Lodge Fwy area of the city of Detroit? and the 8 Mile/Lahser area? How do you know those areas are piss poor?

I actually drove by both locations the other day just so I could see first hand what I have been talking about. I was expecting the 6 mile and Meyers area to be a lot worse than it is because of what people have said to me. I was happy to find that it was in a lot better shape than I thought. Just a half a mile away or so there was a neighborhood that I drove through that was quite nice. I now will go on the record saying that the gentleman is getting a good deal on both properties for the money.

crawford · September-18-09, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by masterblaster

Tell me Crawford,

When is the last time you have been over in the McNichols/Meyers/John C Lodge Fwy area of the city of Detroit? and the 8 Mile/Lahser area? How do you know those areas are piss poor?

The fact that an area has occupied homes is not indicative of a healthy neighborhood. The worst neighborhoods in Detroit have few vacancies.

It's actually the bombed-out neighborhoods that are far safer. Ask any cop. They also have much more upside.

Areas like 8 Mile/Lasher and 6 Mile/Meyers haven't hit rock bottom yet. They still have some homeowners and working people. That's exactly why they would be poor investments.

Dexter Davison has been a pit for years, and will not get worse. Much safer investment than an area plummeting into the abyss. Your comps will be more reliable, and you know what you're getting into.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · September-20-09, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by crawford

The fact that an area has occupied homes is not indicative of a healthy neighborhood. The worst neighborhoods in Detroit have few vacancies.

It's actually the bombed-out neighborhoods that are far safer. Ask any cop. They also have much more upside.

Areas like 8 Mile/Lasher and 6 Mile/Meyers haven't hit rock bottom yet. They still have some homeowners and working people. That's exactly why they would be poor investments.

Dexter Davison has been a pit for years, and will not get worse. Much safer investment than an area plummeting into the abyss. Your comps will be more reliable, and you know what you're getting into.

This punk thinks he's the expert on everything. All he does is trash Detroit and the suburbs. He's the problem instead of trying to help be the solution. What fairytale community do you live in? Please let the the rest of us poverty-stricken detroityes members know.