The Future of Coleman Young Airport

[renf]

There was a news story recently about how few flights now use this airport. Mayor Young tried to modernize that airport in 1989 but that would have required extending land strips into
Gethsemane Cemetery. There was opposition and that never happened.
Kettering High School has been converted into an auto parts manufacturing center. The same thing happened at Southwestern High School. The first firm there gave up the property but Mr. Gilbert bought the campus and, I think, another parts firm will open there soon. And one of the
former Cadillac plants on Conner is being revitalized into
a building for warehousing and light manufacturing.
Does this suggest that, in the Detroit area, there is a need
for manufacturing space for the firms that will produce
component parts for the new EV vehicles?
Has any thought been given to converting Coleman Young
airport into a location for manufacturing?

[RaumVogel]

Executives need a way to get downtown without battling traffic on I-94. Maybe make it into a Heliport? They could then shuttle from DTW to CYA.

[K-slice]

Gotta get some of those federal dollars like Oakland County does. Lots you could do with this airport but it all starts with competent, committed leadership and a plan for the future.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...t/10285918002/

[Jason]

A few years ago the city did a study to figure out what to do with it. They found that basically by doing basic maintenance and investment and running it competently it should be able to get enough business to not bleed money. I don't know what has happened since then.

Duggan had wanted to get rid of the airport and use the land for industrial development, but he didn't get his way.

I think in the end it was decided to bring the airport up to standards, and to develop the land around the airport for industries that have synergy with the airport.

I'd be interested in an update as well if anyone knows what's been going on.

[Seven&wyo]

A few years ago the city did a study to figure out what to do with it. They found that basically by doing basic maintenance and investment and running it competently it should be able to get enough business to not bleed money. I don't know what has happened since then.

Duggan had wanted to get rid of the airport and use the land for industrial development, but he didn't get his way.

I think in the end it was decided to bring the airport up to standards, and to develop the land around the airport for industries that have synergy with the airport.

I'd be interested in an update as well if anyone knows what's been going on.

I saw somewhere that Dugan said that they’ve submitted some kind of proposal to the FAA, but that the process for them to review takes a long time.

[bragaboutme]

Gotta get some of those federal dollars like Oakland County does. Lots you could do with this airport but it all starts with competent, committed leadership and a plan for the future.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...t/10285918002/

Lol, this is why our area is soo behind. Oakland county should be embarrassed. This article is for them to justify to keep getting the federal funding over the City Airport. They even have a family fun day for a place where families will never fly out of. Everyone with half a brain can see through this. Oakland County should be giving that 175 they gross to Pontiac, but nope! They give it to Waterford?

[Meddle]

First off, rename it.

Second, re-establish E. McNichols.

Third, I don't really care after that.

[Richard]

It may apply by summer for grants for extending the landing strip and other upgrades. The changes would require about $82 million over the first five years, and $150 million in all within 20 years, Annalise Frank reports. The airport last accommodated commercial flights in 2000, when Pro Air ceased service.

The Free Press reported in 2018 that the city hasn't staffed a Detroit Fire Department station on grounds for years, which has prevented some business aircraft from landing there because of insurance concerns.

https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/arti...er%20upgrades.


Back in 2018

Mayor Mike Duggan's administration has reportedly floated the idea that KDET could be permanently closed. Ann Arbor-based Avflight president Carl Muhs said that he offered to spend $4 million on a terminal and hangars at the airport in exchange for a mulit-year lease. The city declined the offer. It has not entertained multi-year tenant leases for several years. Muhs said that airport officials told him that the status of the airport is unsure, and pulled out of negotiations for a long-term lease with the company.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?d...c-9b68bd549cc7

It kinda gives the impression that the city is trying to starve it out of existence.

On a side note ,there is a company that owns the land needed to expand the runways,but they have been quiet when one would think they would be using their political power to move it along.

Before the pandemic there was a EV company that wanted to establish there for multiple daily regional more personal flights but not much more on that.

At a conference in the UP the mayor told manufacturers that he would find them the land within the city,anyway possible,Kinda like Poletown style.

[K-slice]

Lol, this is why our area is soo behind. Oakland county should be embarrassed. This article is for them to justify to keep getting the federal funding over the City Airport. They even have a family fun day for a place where families will never fly out of. Everyone with half a brain can see through this. Oakland County should be giving that 175 they gross to Pontiac, but nope! They give it to Waterford?

$175 million isn't profit, it's economic impact. In other words without the airport the GDP for Oakland county would be $175 million less than it is. There is no money to "give" to anyone...

And what exactly should they be embarrassed about? Proper management? Effective leadership? General success?

This isn't an us-vs-them issue. There is plenty of federal money to go around, but the city doesn't seem interested in chasing it down Like OC does. Detroit has no one to blame but themselves for the disparity.

Agree with Meddle too, if they do ever want to do something with it, the first step should be renaming it... Detroit City Airport, simple.

[CassTechGrad]

First off, rename it.

Second, re-establish E. McNichols.

Third, I don't really care after that.

And forth, restore the old "Gas is Best" storage tank.

[Meddle]

Executives need a way to get downtown without battling traffic on I-94. Maybe make it into a Heliport? They could then shuttle ...

... to and from anywhere.

I've said that many times. Restore it to corporate jets and general aviation small aircraft with a heliport. Use it as a commuter hub to Metro, Troy, OC, Willow Run, Toledo, Windsor or most anywhere else. Include tourist and sightseeing Helo flights.

Maybe even some cargo flights.

[Zacha341]

^ Yep. Some flights come in now - limited small training-type aircraft or private from what I see. Incredible to think I used to fly to Chicago, Midway out of City airport - Southwest Airlines. Can't recall Aircraft... DC 9 or 10s [shudder to think I flew in those] - it was the mid and late-eighties.

Rotation was pretty low for pull-up per that short-runway. You could almost read the tombstone names of the nearby cemetery on the climb-out!

There was even talk of retail along the Conner strip. Long abandoned.

It would grand to see smaller chartered flights, if not the heavies.

[KnnNike]

Detroit has no one to blame but themselves for the disparity.

Mmm...I'll still happily put a ton of blame on OC for this. The airport at Waterford is the culmination of 50 years of Brooks Patterson-style fear mongering. In the minds of most economic development officials in Oakland county, Detroit is dead...they want to position themselves as the economic center for the region, rather than trying to carve out a niche for themselves in a region anchored by Detroit.

I am certain that some version of the "don't fly to City Airport, it's in the middle of a terrible ghetto city and you'll probably be robbed or shot" conversation happened many, many times over the years as the OC airport tried to recruit new business.

[Richard]

It’s actually more about this and always has been,they are just waiting for the GHB to finish.

https://www.detroitaero.org/the-region/airports/

The map

https://accesswayne.org/aerotropolis/

City airport was taken out of out picture by design long ago,even by the city itself.

The next meeting is September 8th

If you look at the notice and scroll down you can see the players,Wayne county is but not COD.

https://www.detroitaero.org/wp-conte...ember-2022.pdf
S2. Ep. 21 - Chris Girdwood, Executive Director - Detroit Region Aerotropolis

JULY 06, 2022

Podcast of what is HAPPENING

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1568437/10890119

[Junkin4Life]

First off, rename it.

Second, re-establish E. McNichols.

Third, I don't really care after that.

Are you talking about East McNichols between French Road and Conner?

[softailrider]

Mmm...I'll still happily put a ton of blame on OC for this. The airport at Waterford is the culmination of 50 years of Brooks Patterson-style fear mongering. In the minds of most economic development officials in Oakland county, Detroit is dead...they want to position themselves as the economic center for the region, rather than trying to carve out a niche for themselves in a region anchored by Detroit.

I am certain that some version of the "don't fly to City Airport, it's in the middle of a terrible ghetto city and you'll probably be robbed or shot" conversation happened many, many times over the years as the OC airport tried to recruit new business.

You can happily put a ton of blame on Oakland County for the demise of City Airport but please do not absolve the City of Detroit for allowing it to sink to the level it is at now. That airport has been in terrible condition for 20 years maybe longer. I would say whatever government entity disallowed the lengthening or adding a longer runway is way more to blame then Oakland County is.

Do you think Oakland County would allow that abandoned two-story motel on Conner and Gratiot to just sit there for the last 10 years? It's an important corner. For openers, how about getting rid of that? It's just not a good look.

[Richard]

Yea I do not get the whole reasoning behind the constant shooting oneself in the foot.

Get rid of the island,get rid of the city airport,build a bridge that bypass es commence through the city,even worse turn away commercial traffic that would have made it profitable,it’s not like they are starving for footprint.

All of that stuff creates a viable asset and lowers the overall tax burden on local residents.

That’s the hardest part to figure out,motivation.

The bridge company bought up the land needed for the expansion in the late 70s,they knew back then what was needed and could see what it would take to become a viable asset,otherwise they would have never speculated.

The mayor wants to shut it down and develop it,I guess that is a viable option because the fairgrounds have proven to be such a massive development success to follow,just like Poletown was.

Thats the problem,you have a city trying to move into the future but so many that are more interested in short term cookie jar grabs that hurt the overall bigger picture.

It is hard to tell who is actually on whose side,and whose best interests are actually being served.

The airport and the port,two things the city could easily sell bonds for that would pay for themselves,lower the tax obligations for the local residents,and provide jobs,without increasing local taxes.

But yet everything they are doing as far as development is doing the exact opposite,unless the goal is to increase the city tax burden so high,that only certain people can afford to live there,in effect a cleansing of the city,then it would be understandable.

All of these major airlines cost cutting by eliminating regional service opens the door for the city airport to provide easy excess to short term regional flights.

It’s not like they have to compete with buses and trains.

[Burnsie]

As of 1990 Southwest had to use weight and fuel restrictions to allow landing at City Airport with its 737s. Coleman Young wanted to build a runway with an initial length of 6500' but the planes would have been as low as 47' over the Mt. Olivet Cemetery entrance. Jet exhaust blasts would have been 75 to 100 MPH at the cemetery entrance. The permanent new runway length was going to be 7400'. Not much they can while hemmed in by Gethsemane and Mt. Olivet cemeteries. Runway length of 5092' vs. Oakland's 6251'.

[Richard]

Depends on what one wants to identify as,5000’ works for aircraft under 200,000 lbs.

So based on today it’s a commuter airport of sorts,it could be used to fly 100 plus to Ann Arbor for the day or a junket from Chi - .

If one looks at the electric commuter air planes,most are lift straight up n go,there was a electric air plane company that wanted to establish service there as a regional carrier,but the city would not allow commercial so not sure what happened to them.

There was also a drone company that wanted to establish there.

The city has to decide,either continue to give it a slow death by design or allow commercial enterprises there,outside of that it does not matter how long the runways is.

Just have to wait until the cities plan is finalized and published.

[313WX]

As of 1990 Southwest had to use weight and fuel restrictions to allow landing at City Airport with its 737s. Coleman Young wanted to build a runway with an initial length of 6500' but the planes would have been as low as 47' over the Mt. Olivet Cemetery entrance. Jet exhaust blasts would have been 75 to 100 MPH at the cemetery entrance. The permanent new runway length was going to be 7400'. Not much they can while hemmed in by Gethsemane and Mt. Olivet cemeteries. Runway length of 5092' vs. Oakland's 6251'.

With the neighborhood to the west now emptied out, the city could explore the option of new diagonol runways that go up to the Van Dyke and 6 Mile intersection.

[K-slice]

Mmm...I'll still happily put a ton of blame on OC for this. The airport at Waterford is the culmination of 50 years of Brooks Patterson-style fear mongering. In the minds of most economic development officials in Oakland county, Detroit is dead...they want to position themselves as the economic center for the region, rather than trying to carve out a niche for themselves in a region anchored by Detroit.

I am certain that some version of the "don't fly to City Airport, it's in the middle of a terrible ghetto city and you'll probably be robbed or shot" conversation happened many, many times over the years as the OC airport tried to recruit new business.

The existence of a competitive alternative wasn't the death knell for city airport though. The two are far enough away from each other that both could have survived.

To an executive privately flying in to visit GM or another downtown entity back in 2000, it would be much more convenient to fly into city airport than any other.