Ontario nurses fleeing Canada for American jobs

**Margaret's boy** · August-14-22, 01:40 PM

This story is more for anyone planning to visit Ontario from Michigan. Canadian, not just Ontario, health care is crisis, with nurses fleeing hospitals in Windsor, London and Toronto for nursing jobs in Michigan, Ohio and New York. I would love to hear from the American forum on how health care in Michigan compares to Ontario and how we can fix it .VITAL SIGNS OF TROUBLE: Many Ontario nurses fleeing for U.S. jobs | Toronto Sun

**Satiricalivory** · August-14-22, 02:17 PM

Healthcare in the states is garbage. Compares horribly to any public healthcare system in the developed countries of the world.

**401don** · August-14-22, 02:47 PM

It's been the same thing for years. You have a private system next door to a public system. There are obvious advantages and disadvantages to both. Canadian doctors, particularly specialists, have fled to the U.S. for decades for the higher salaries. That of course makes the biggest Canadian problem, wait times, much worse. On the other hand, as a Canadian who's had a few surgeries in recent years, I certainly wouldn't change our system for theirs. The nursing shortage is becoming critical however with the ER depts. that have closed at various times.
Canadians cringe at a fee payer system but the fact is if you allow some privatization for specific tests and procedures it would reduce both costs overall and wait times for those receiving free gov't care.

**Margaret's boy** · August-14-22, 02:58 PM

It's not the same old story. I've witnessed loved ones being failed by our troubled health care while those with deep pockets can go anywhere to access the best health care. It's time the chattering classes in Canada shut up, quit drinking the propaganda our political establishment feeds us through the media, and listen to the nurses, who are the true champions of Canadian health care.

**Seven&wyo** · August-14-22, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

Healthcare in the states is garbage. Compares horribly to any public healthcare system in the developed countries of the world.

Yes like the health system in Italy that collapsed from the flew in 2018[[maybe 16) or the health system of Canada where nurses are under paid and people go months in need of a doctor. Yes we pay for medicine but the incentive to make a profit drives innovation in medicine. Also 80%-90% of all hospitalization in the US are lifestyle driven of that group over 75% are obese. If you want to stay out of the hospital here don’t be a fat fuck. You are completely wrong about this

**Ray1936** · August-14-22, 04:16 PM

Hey, we're all gonna die anyway. Even the nurses and doctors. So there.

**401don** · August-14-22, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Margaret's boy

It's not the same old story. I've witnessed loved ones being failed by our troubled health care while those with deep pockets can go anywhere to access the best health care. It's time the chattering classes in Canada shut up, quit drinking the propaganda our political establishment feeds us through the media, and listen to the nurses, who are the true champions of Canadian health care.

Exactly where do those with deep pockets go within Canada? Obviously they can pay and get the care in the U.S., the same as wealthy Americans. If you think our system favors the wealthy, you must really hate their system. If the U.S. had universal care, like every other industrialized country in the world, the pay structures would be similar to ours and Canadian doctors and nurses wouldn't be going there.
My wife needed a special stent for her brain a few years ago and our gov't flew in the stent and a surgeon from California to oversee the procedure. The cost of that, excluding the surgery, was $40,000.

**oladub** · August-14-22, 06:23 PM

Average Canadians lifespans are 3 years longer than those in the USA. So, on average, Canadian healthcare is better. I don't know of a better way to measure it. However, Americans with insurance and rich Americans who have really good insurance have better care than those who do not. Even my union's health care policy, combined with Medicare does a good job. The only bills I have are regular payments to both plans and the first $10 of each prescription. When my wife had a heart attack, I saw bills for $64,000 but didn't have to pay a penny of it. I do have some problems scheduling appointments with my regular doctor. They always want to assign me to a nurse but I can show up in clinic to see a doctor I don't know within a couple of hours.

Canadian nurses leaving is nothing new. About 30+ years ago, I met two northern Ontario nurses who spent some months every winter working in a different part of the States. It was like a working vacation for them. I know they went to Boston and Florida on two of their forays.

**Seven&wyo** · August-14-22, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

Average Canadians lifespans are 3 years longer than those in the USA. So, on average, Canadian healthcare is better. I don't know of a better way to measure it. However, Americans with insurance and rich Americans who have really good insurance have better care than those who do not. Even my union's health care policy, combined with Medicare does a good job. The only bills I have are regular payments to both plans and the first $10 of each prescription. When my wife had a heart attack, I saw bills for $64,000 but didn't have to pay a penny of it. I do have some problems scheduling appointments with my regular doctor. They always want to assign me to a nurse but I can show up in clinic to see a doctor I don't know within a couple of hours.

Canadian nurses leaving is nothing new. About 30+ years ago, I met two northern Ontario nurses who spent some months every winter working in a different part of the States. It was like a working vacation for them. I know they went to Boston and Florida on two of their forays.

Americans are severely over weight that’s why it’s lower, not healthcare.

**Lowell** · August-14-22, 08:04 PM

Canadian nurses in US hospitals, especially Detroit, is ancient news. They are not “fleeing” Canada, they are attracted by a wasteful US healthcare system that has driven up cost everywhere particularly for the consumer.

Although Healthcare coverage in US has greatly expanded, thanks to the affordable care act a.k.a. Obamacare, it still requires effort to renew every year and pay every month.

For those who get coverage through their jobs it requires them to keep their jobs. If you lose your job you lose healthcare coverage and are on your own. That is not the case in Canada. you may have to get to in line to get certain procedures in Canada but at the basic level you are taken care of regardless of your job fortunes.

Over time huge numbers of Americans have been driven to bankruptcy by lack of healthcare coverage. It is unlikely that has ever happened in Canada.

And, as noted by Oladub above, healthcare outcomes in Canada are superior to those in the United States unless you can afford the very expensive healthcare coverage that the better off or those on Medicare have. This explains why no Canadian politician would seriously challenge Canadas national health program anymore that any American politician would dare challenge Medicare.

**canuck** · August-14-22, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by Margaret's boy

It's not the same old story. I've witnessed loved ones being failed by our troubled health care while those with deep pockets can go anywhere to access the best health care. It's time the chattering classes in Canada shut up, quit drinking the propaganda our political establishment feeds us through the media, and listen to the nurses, who are the true champions of Canadian health care.

My health care heroes are assistant nurses. Beyond that, we can root for nurses, assistants and orderlies, but let’s not forget that if you need some surgery, it’s nice to leave that in a surgeon’s able hands, too.

**Satiricalivory** · August-14-22, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Seven&wyo

Yes like the health system in Italy that collapsed from the flew in 2018[[maybe 16) or the health system of Canada where nurses are under paid and people go months in need of a doctor. Yes we pay for medicine but the incentive to make a profit drives innovation in medicine. Also 80%-90% of all hospitalization in the US are lifestyle driven of that group over 75% are obese. If you want to stay out of the hospital here don’t be a fat fuck. You are completely wrong about this

This is bootlicker drivel. Paying the highest costs for healthcare in the world doesn't drive innovation at all, it only lines the pockets of greedy CEOs and billionaires. We have the worst and most expensive healthcare of any western country by far, it's franky embarrassing.

**Honky Tonk** · August-15-22, 01:56 AM

The United States ranks about 18th as far as Healthcare in the world, depending which survey you believe and how they go about gathering their information. We are the most expensive and least cost effective without a doubt, which is why Canada is losing nurses. It's all about the money. Either the AMA or the NRA rank #1 for having the most powerful lobbying group. That makes sure they stay lucrative. You can easily look all this up by using your favorite search engine.

**Dexlin** · August-15-22, 04:36 AM

Seriously, the Toronto Sun? lol Come on, now.

**Seven&wyo** · August-15-22, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

This is bootlicker drivel. Paying the highest costs for healthcare in the world doesn't drive innovation at all, it only lines the pockets of greedy CEOs and billionaires. We have the worst and most expensive healthcare of any western country by far, it's franky embarrassing.

Profit doesn’t drive innovation at all? You think finding a cure to a sickness or finding a way to make it more excessable to more people isn’t a drive for profit? I think I smell an angry Bernie voter

**Rocket** · August-15-22, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

We are the most expensive and least cost effective without a doubt, which is why Canada is losing nurses. It's all about the money. Either the AMA or the NRA rank #1 for having the most powerful lobbying group. That makes sure they stay lucrative. You can easily look all this up by using your favorite search engine.

The AMA is the overwhelming problem in USA healthcare, and needs to be neutered.

It was never intended to help the public.

It was started by John D. Rockefeller to increase his profits. Anyone interested could look up Abraham Flexner to know more.

**Lowell** · August-15-22, 07:31 AM

Betcha Canada doesn't have this...

High deductibles, copays and health care costs are fueling a massive debt crisis in the U.S. Medical debt is a burden that 41% of adults in this country carry, according to a new poll from the Kaiser Family Foundation.

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/30/11090...=1660566472207

**Wheels** · August-15-22, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

Healthcare in the states is garbage. Compares horribly to any public healthcare system in the developed countries of the world.

Ya I guess that’s why nurses are leaving the powerful socialist system in Canadian and coming to our woeful system in the States right genius?

**jcole** · August-15-22, 08:24 AM

The US lost a lot of nurses during the height of the pandemic; they felt worn out, unappreciated and just burnt. Also, many got ill and had no desired to come back and catch Covid again. I'm sure Canadian nurses decided the higher wages in the States were desirable. But, what I found interesting in the link posted it says most of the nurses that are leaving Canada are LPNs. The US doesn't even offer LPN training any more; most American nurses in training are becoming RN's and BSNs. So, the States are getting cheap Canadian nurses and the LPNs are getting better money than they make in Canada

**Seven&wyo** · August-15-22, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Betcha Canada doesn't have this...

High deductibles, copays and health care costs are fueling a massive debt crisis in the U.S. Medical debt is a burden that 41% of adults in this country carry, according to a new poll from the Kaiser Family Foundation.

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/30/11090...=1660566472207

Canada isn’t an overly fat country like the US. My 75 year old father has never had a medical insurance and never needed to because he’s healthy. Most Americans health problems come from being over weight and I’m not paying for a bunch of fat slobs who can’t control themselves.

**southen** · August-15-22, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Seven&wyo

Canada isn’t an overly fat country like the US. My 75 year old father has never had a medical insurance and never needed to because he’s healthy. Most Americans health problems come from being over weight and I’m not paying for a bunch of fat slobs who can’t control themselves.

As someone who is diabetic through genetics and has to pay through the nose and deal with one political party denying low cost insulin to people because apparently it will "drive innovation" you can respectfully fuck off. Blaming the entire healthcare system on fat slobs shows you have the understanding and intellect of someone with an IQ of 60. In another country you might be able to get assistance for that.

**Seven&wyo** · August-15-22, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by southen

As someone who is diabetic through genetics and has to pay through the nose and deal with one political party denying low cost insulin to people because apparently it will "drive innovation" you can respectfully fuck off. Blaming the entire healthcare system on fat slobs shows you have the understanding and intellect of someone with an IQ of 60. In another country you might be able to get assistance for that.

I actually feel quite sorry for sufferers of type 1 but given how you’re only .5% of the population and type 2 is almost 10% and we are over 70% overweight if I had to choose I’d still pick our system. At the end of the day the vastVAST majority of people with type2 lack self control and I’m not paying for it. I’m sorry stats, facts and personal responsibility hurt your feefees.

**Satiricalivory** · August-15-22, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Wheels

Ya I guess that’s why nurses are leaving the powerful socialist system in Canadian and coming to our woeful system in the States right genius?

Oh yeah we're so much better hurr durrh. And I guess that's why people go bankrupt or just fucking die because they don't have healthcare in the United States, and that's why our life expectancy is lower than Canada too.

You're really smart.

**Seven&wyo** · August-15-22, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

Oh yeah we're so much better hurr durrh. And I guess that's why people go bankrupt or just fucking die because they don't have healthcare in the United States, and that's why our life expectancy is lower than Canada too.

You're really smart.

Hey dude if you want to make a point statistics and facts could help. How many of those bankruptcies were from preventable diseases? How many actually die? Why is life expectancy lower here than Canada? Time to do some thinking buddy

**southen** · August-15-22, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Seven&wyo

Hey dude if you want to make a point statistics and facts could help. How many of those bankruptcies were from preventable diseases? How many actually die? Why is life expectancy lower here than Canada? Time to do some thinking buddy

Facts like your father being 75 and being in perfect health therefore it is just out of shape people that have issues? Facts like the "vast VAST" majority of Type 2 diabetics not having any self control? Facts like that? Apparently being a jackass making wild assumptions about huge swaths of the population is now a "fact."