Anyone just catch the "investigation" on mcs on WXYZ?

**mcsdetroitfriend** · September-13-09, 10:20 PM

They made it out in the previews to be a very horrible discovery, that the dust was awful only to say that "asbestos was found on a piece of ductwork outside"

Just my thoughts, I was almost worried [[even though I've already spoken to EPA and MIOSHA people) that something new and awful had happened only to realize they had nothing.

**Russix** · September-14-09, 12:11 AM

The written story ends with "Go get a chest X-ray"
http://www.wxyz.com/news/story/Asbes...XUxQBZkEg.cspx

**wolverine** · September-14-09, 12:22 AM

There are much bigger liabilities to worry about when the cleanup isn't professionally organized with equipment, storage of debris, and of course experience. I applaud the efforts of summer in the city, but everyone should have been wearing a mask [[ones that actually cost a lot of money) to protect them from dust and disease [[histoplasmosis, psittacosis, etc). It's fair to raise concern about asbestos exposure, but it's extremely unlikely any of the volunteers will experience health problems in the future.

**reddog289** · September-14-09, 12:30 AM

While watching that story, I said why didn,t anyone think of that?.Given the age of the kids doing the work and with the removal of asbestos a professional job requiring special classes and equipment. All I can say is that CHEAPASS Matty will be long gone before any of these kids come down with the symtoms of asbestos exposure.

**davewindsor** · September-14-09, 08:19 AM

Dr. Michael Harbut/Asbestos Expert, said, "Even though the risk may be extremely small, there is no such thing as a safe level of asbestos."

Talk about confusing the issue. A doctor is saying it was an extremely small risk, but there's no safe level???

Come on, anyone who's lived in a pre-80s house, which is almost everyone in Detroit, will have some exposure to asbestos in their lifetime. The concept of safety is blown way out of proportion. People have a choice to smoke cigarettes and there's no safe level. One person can be exposed to asbestos and live till they're 80 and another person can be killed from a car accident tomorrow. When God says your time is up, it's up whether it's caused by asbestos, cigarette smoke or being hit by a car. There's nothing you can do to avoid fate.

**EastsideAl** · September-14-09, 09:47 AM

Still, while it's nice that some folks have taken this on as a civic project, this is a clean-up that should be being done professionally by the building's owner, who after all is a multi-millionaire.

**Lonyo exit** · September-14-09, 10:01 AM

When God says your time is up, it's up whether it's caused by asbestos, cigarette smoke or being hit by a car. There's nothing you can do to avoid fate.

Yeah, other than not walking around an abandoned building with airborne asbestos fibers.

The asbestos in our old homes is different than ground up and torn asbestos ceiling and floor tiles. When they become pulverized and turn into windborne powders, as they are in MCS and other buildings where it's been allowed to turn to dust, you better believe it's more dangerous than the stuff locked into the floors and ceilings at home.

Keep rationalizing, but going in that building without protection to be worker bees for the billionaire was quite a stupid thing to do.

**kraig** · September-14-09, 11:06 AM

Let's face it. With Kwame, Monica and Martha gone and Sam Riddle not talking. The investigative reporters aren't finding anything worthwhile to report. That MCS story is weak as hell. There are probably some things going on with the Bing Administration, especially with so many Kwame people still there, however, Bing may be to connected for anyone to have the guts to take on.

Also, is Steve Wilson still with Channel 7? I figured if anyone could find out what's going on with Bing, Beckham & Co., it would be Wilson. But, nothing so far. Oh well, maybe they'll catch Martha Reeves leaving with an inkpen and a piece of looseleaf paper.

**Lonyo exit** · September-14-09, 01:47 PM

Weak? A billionaire slumlord convinces some not terribly bright kids into doing his dirty work for him and sends them without adequate protection into a building full of hazardous materials. Seems pretty newsworthy. The Channel 7 version may not be complete, but the story isn't nothing.

**rb336** · September-14-09, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Dr. Michael Harbut/Asbestos Expert, said, "Even though the risk may be extremely small, there is no such thing as a safe level of asbestos."

Talk about confusing the issue. A doctor is saying it was an extremely small risk, but there's no safe level???

Come on, anyone who's lived in a pre-80s house, which is almost everyone in Detroit, will have some exposure to asbestos in their lifetime. The concept of safety is blown way out of proportion. People have a choice to smoke cigarettes and there's no safe level. One person can be exposed to asbestos and live till they're 80 and another person can be killed from a car accident tomorrow. When God says your time is up, it's up whether it's caused by asbestos, cigarette smoke or being hit by a car. There's nothing you can do to avoid fate.

how is "small risk" and "no safe level" confusing the issue? it may not be a huge risk, but it is a risk. why? because exposure to tiny amts of certain materials, incl. asbestos, can cause damage

**davewindsor** · September-14-09, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

how is "small risk" and "no safe level" confusing the issue? it may not be a huge risk, but it is a risk. why? because exposure to tiny amts of certain materials, incl. asbestos, can cause damage

He didn't say "small risk". He said "extremely" small risk. Extremely is a miniscule reference; otherwise, he would have said just small risk. I have an extremely small risk of getting run over by a car tomorrow too. Highly improbably, but it's possible. Anything is possible. Is that enough for me not to want to leave the house? I have a extremely small risk of getting lung cancer from second hand smoke at Greektown casino, does that mean I shouldn't go there or anywhere else in public? It doesn't matter where you go, once you leave the house you're not safe. You can either worry about it or accept fate is fate and live your life. We are not infinite living creatures. We all have a finite life, so just accept fate. How about some probability calculation of some sort and comparison vs. other activity than saying something confusing like the doctor said? I'll bet the risk of getting killed in a plane crash if I fly by plane is higher than getting killed by asbestos.

**Lonyo exit** · September-14-09, 09:00 PM

That is one of the stupidest posts I've ever seen here.

According to OSHA, "Even at the present PEL of 0.1 f/cc there are an estimated 3.2 to 3.7 asbestos related deaths per 1000 workers expected."

Do 3 people die for every 1,000 that fly? Hardly.Your attempt at comparisons fails miserably, and your relativism is simply dumb.

"Leaving the house" is quite different than putting oneself in a relatively closed space where it has been confirmed that circulating asbestos is present. Likewise, comparing second-hand smoke to asbestos shows utter ignorance that the two are considerably different substances.Or as noted in the same link, OSHA is "aware of no instances in which exposure to a toxic substance has more clearly demonstrated detrimental health effects on humans than has asbestos exposure."

http://www.asbestos.org/HealthEffects/DeathRates.html

**BVos** · September-14-09, 09:27 PM

As someone who has worked in home renovation of historic homes and commercial buildings I second Lonyo exit's concern. This is a big deal. Ask anyone who works in the building trades.

I thought about this when we were discussing the pros/cons of Summer in the City in the MCS. I also thought about the presence of lead. This is probably a bigger concern and potential problem than the asbestos, especially for younger people.

**davewindsor** · September-14-09, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Lonyo exit

That is one of the stupidest posts I've ever seen here.

According to OSHA, "Even at the present PEL of 0.1 f/cc there are an estimated 3.2 to 3.7 asbestos related deaths per 1000 workers expected."

Do 3 people die for every 1,000 that fly? Hardly.Your attempt at comparisons fails miserably, and your relativism is simply dumb.

"Leaving the house" is quite different than putting oneself in a relatively closed space where it has been confirmed that circulating asbestos is present. Likewise, comparing second-hand smoke to asbestos shows utter ignorance that the two are considerably different substances.Or as noted in the same link, OSHA is "aware of no instances in which exposure to a toxic substance has more clearly demonstrated detrimental health effects on humans than has asbestos exposure."

http://www.asbestos.org/HealthEffects/DeathRates.html

And, 3.2-3.7 deaths per 1000 is for someone doing it as a "working career", not from a day or two of volunteering with Summer in the City, moron. A "career" is not 1-2 days. Your usage of this statistic in this case is one of the dumbest rebuttals I've seen. When I was talking about an airplane comparison, I was referring to 1-2 days of exposure as a volunteer, not a person who's doing it as a career.

Another interesting point to note about your article is, "Similarly, asbestos is present in the air in our atmosphere. There is no "zero" exposure. This is partly due to the fact that asbestos is a naturally occurring mineral, and partly due to man's usage [[and disturbance) of the material."

So, no matter what, you're gonna be exposed to asbestos and most people should be able to develop a tolerance to small amounts. 1-2 days of exposure is not a small risk, but as the doctor in the original article stated, an "extremely small" risk.

**kraig** · September-14-09, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Lonyo exit

Weak? A billionaire slumlord convinces some not terribly bright kids into doing his dirty work for him and sends them without adequate protection into a building full of hazardous materials. Seems pretty newsworthy. The Channel 7 version may not be complete, but the story isn't nothing.

Yes, weak. You're free to put whatever kind of angle you want on it. But the story that Channel 7 broadcast was weak. None of this stuff came up when Hollywood movies have been filmed.

I'll tell you this, Beard Elementary School is still sitting on the contaminated land that it was built on. If Channel 7 wants to test and report on something, they should report on that. The kids and faculty in that school are being poisoned everyday. Let's get Tlaib to go there and ask the kids to raise their hands if they have asthma. Now that this crap with Mongo is over, she needs to stop being a one issue legislator and address more of the needs of her constituency.

**mcsdetroitfriend** · September-14-09, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by Lonyo exit

...relatively closed space where it has been confirmed that circulating asbestos is present.

The EPA and MIOSHA have never confirmed that asbestos was circulating, they were simply working on the theory that the places they tested [[ie. obvious sources of asbestos: piping, ductwork, etc) had become torn and thus become free and airborne. The dust was never tested.

The concern about lead is a good concern but once again a lot of old buildings contain lead find me an old building in detroit that doesn't contain it!

Obviously things were done poorley and I like the question about Hollywood being in the building, I wonder how all the basketball players and extras in "Crossover" feel about it? They cleaned that area way more than we volunteers did, the film company put an entire basketball court, lights, PA system, etc etc etc inside the main waiting area [[Wayne Brady would be pissed, as would Shia Lebouf - though he simply ran through the building he wasn't brooming up the space).

**Lonyo exit** · September-15-09, 08:27 AM

Thank you, davewindsor, for confirming your simple nature.

The problem is cumulative exposure. Is there any acceptable amount for these kids to have in their lungs while they do the slave work of a billionaire too cheap to pay professionals to do it? You miss the point, but based on your previous posts, this is not a surprise.

**FlyByDon** · September-15-09, 08:43 AM

Click to read more: U.S. Department of Health & Human Services

**kraig** · September-15-09, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by FlyByDon

Click to read more: U.S. Department of Health & Human Services

Good post FlyByDon. That should effectively address Lonyo Exit's concern.

EastSider · September-15-09, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by mcsdetroitfriend

The EPA and MIOSHA have never confirmed that asbestos was circulating, they were simply working on the theory that the places they tested [[ie. obvious sources of asbestos: piping, ductwork, etc) had become torn and thus become free and airborne. The dust was never tested.

The concern about lead is a good concern but once again a lot of old buildings contain lead find me an old building in detroit that doesn't contain it!

Obviously things were done poorley and I like the question about Hollywood being in the building, I wonder how all the basketball players and extras in "Crossover" feel about it? They cleaned that area way more than we volunteers did, the film company put an entire basketball court, lights, PA system, etc etc etc inside the main waiting area [[Wayne Brady would be pissed, as would Shia Lebouf - though he simply ran through the building he wasn't brooming up the space).

Quit trying to dodge the issue of Summer in the City exposing [[exploiting?!) teen-aged volunteers for what? To help a billionaire? Anybody with half a brain knew there are environmental hazards in that building. Dan Stamper is lying in the report when he says they didn't know.

The idea of how these kids and their goodwill toward the city were exploited makes my blood boil. At the same time, I'm amazed that on a left-leaning forum like this, everybody's making excuses for "The Man."

**davewindsor** · September-15-09, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Lonyo exit

Thank you, davewindsor, for confirming your simple nature.

The problem is cumulative exposure. Is there any acceptable amount for these kids to have in their lungs while they do the slave work of a billionaire too cheap to pay professionals to do it? You miss the point, but based on your previous posts, this is not a surprise.

And thank-you for talking like a complete idiot.

Your issue seems to be more about your personal grudge against the owner than your concern for the safety of civic minded people volunteering 1-2 days to make a difference in saving the MCS. Where you a former disgruntled employee of his?

BTW--If someone volunteers to help get things moving, they're not a "slave". That's just plain stupid to say something like that. And your attacking a project that would make this city a better place doesn't help in a city that's dying from too many people who don't give a shit anymore.

**kraig** · September-15-09, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by EastSider

Quit trying to dodge the issue of Summer in the City exposing [[exploiting?!) teen-aged volunteers for what? To help a billionaire? Anybody with half a brain knew there are environmental hazards in that building. Dan Stamper is lying in the report when he says they didn't know.

The idea of how these kids and their goodwill toward the city were exploited makes my blood boil. At the same time, I'm amazed that on a left-leaning forum like this, everybody's making excuses for "The Man."

Take the time to research Summer In The City. They performed cleanups in over a dozen sites this summer. They also conducted youth programs for a large number of Detroit Children. You're attacking a very productive organization.

EastSider · September-15-09, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by kraig

Take the time to research Summer In The City. They performed cleanups in over a dozen sites this summer. They also conducted youth programs for a large number of Detroit Children. You're attacking a very productive organization.

We've been over this issue not too long ago. Summer in the City may be a worthwhile group, but I draw the line at exploiting their volunteers for the service of a billionaire.

There's plenty of work to be done in Detroit without doing it for someone who can pay for it.

**Lonyo exit** · September-15-09, 10:47 AM

To quote from FlyByDon's link:

"Workers involved in demolition and removal of the debris from these disasters, should wear respiratory protection [[a NIOSH-approved respirator such as an N-95 or more protective respirator). It is essential that when these respirators are used, they are properly fit on the worker. Workers should wear the respirator while working inside established work zones."

But forget that, when simpletons like davewindsor insist on fellating Moroun rather than stand up for well-meaning kids who were taken advantage of. Carry on, puckerface. Don't choke on the old man. Nah, you're used to doing that so you probably won't.

When he's finishes up and you wipe off, maybe you can explain how cleaning an empty building but leaving it abandoned with no renovation plans whatsoever on the horizon makes Detroit a better place.

LodgeDodger · September-15-09, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Lonyo exit

Weak? A billionaire slumlord convinces some not terribly bright kids into doing his dirty work for him and sends them without adequate protection into a building full of hazardous materials. Seems pretty newsworthy. The Channel 7 version may not be complete, but the story isn't nothing.

While I understand [[and agree with) your opinion in this matter, I do take offense to calling these kids 'not terribly bright'. When any of us were those kids' ages, would we have given hazmat protection a thought? It was up to the adults in charge to make sure those kids were adequately protected. Dirty bastards.