Council delays vote on Hudson site tax break

[Henry Whalley]

Deadline Detroit | Detroit City Council delays vote on Gilbert Hudson's tax break for third time

Or until fewer people are paying attention?

[Gistok]

Henry Whalley... I have no disagreements with you on this forum, but you might want to use thread titles with just facts, and save the "theory" portion for actual posts. Lord knows this forum is already top-heavy in theories...

I have to admit going from $900+ million to $1.4 billion is quite a lot of money... and this could explain the "go slow" part of the construction project... except they've been going very slow indeed for quite some time.

I can fully understand that with Gilbert being the richest man in Michigan, that he shouldn't have a problem funding this project, especially with his tax breaks so far.

But I seriously wonder if this project will ever fully pay for itself...

[Henry Whalley]

Henry Whalley... I have no disagreements with you on this forum, but you might want to use thread titles with just facts, and save the "theory" portion for actual posts. Lord knows this forum is already top-heavy in theories...

Sorry, I have a low aptitude for subject lines

[Gistok]

Sorry, I have a low aptitude for subject lines

That's OK... your grammar was impeccable!

[Richard]

Because grammar is more important then collecting $60 million from already strapped taxpayers.

The part that reads - The bank that said they would refuse the loan if he could not collect the $60 million,is the bank really saying that $60 million equates to being $60 million over budget that makes the project upside down and risky?

How come that local mortgage company,what’s it called,Rocket Mortgage,does not fund it in full?,unless they said it does not qualify for approval.

The cost of construction has doubled if not more in the last two years,I wonder what the cost difference is in a 1 billion dollar edifice from the time of design to the time of actual start of construction.

The history of a lot of the downtown sky scrapers was filled with downsized original plans,or 1/2 of the overall original plan was filled or economical interruptions etc.

The new laws make available up to $1 billion in taxpayer money for Gilbert's $775 million mixed-use tower planned for the site of the former J.L. Hudson's department store.

https://deadlinedetroit.com/articles/30809/detroit_city_council_tables_vote_on_gilbert_tax_br eak_for_third_time

Got to give him credit,he is getting to add a billion dollars to his portfolio for free.

is financially necessary because of the project's high costs and low anticipated return-on-investment.


Lol ,let’s see the average homeowner in the city pull that one off.

I agree with incentives greasing the wheels of development but when it comes to 1 billion,what’s more advantageous to the city,dumping it into one spot where 80% of the population may never even step foot into or into 100s of projects across a wide swath of the city that will directly impact the residents?

On top of that it will not even add to the tax base for at least another 20 years if not more.

It shows the true cost to the taxpayer for the demolition of the Hudson’s building verses mothballing,1 billion dollars.

In todays money it cost $21 million to demolish the building so the taxpayers will be into that site alone for - do the math,it becomes mind boggling after a certain point.

[Danny]

Well done city council. Gilbert is super rich. He can sell half of his assets to finish paying his building debts for a crystal tower while is a debt collector.

Don't be like Trump, Gilbert.

[Gistok]

Because grammar is more important then collecting $60 million from already strapped taxpayers.

See Richard this is one reason why so many on this forum challenge you. You think we don't notice your twisted logic... such as comparing grammar with a $60 million loan...

"False equivalence is a logical fallacy in which an equivalence is drawn between two subjects based on flawed or false reasoning. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency. Colloquially, a false equivalence is often called "comparing apples and oranges."

I'm surprised that someone with your real estate acumen doesn't know that "that local mortgage company" of whence you speak... Rocket Mortgage... is America's largest mortgage lender...

[Rocket]

The new laws make available up to $1 billion in taxpayer money for Gilbert's $775 million mixed-use tower planned for the site of the former J.L. Hudson's department store.

https://deadlinedetroit.com/articles/30809/detroit_city_council_tables_vote_on_gilbert_tax_br eak_for_third_time

I didn't see that [1 Billion in taxpayer money] in the article.

The article said that Gilbert was contributing $1 Billion in equity or cash, and financing $400 Million.


Others have mentioned tax breaks, but those too aren't "Taxpayers funding" anything. A tax break is City Council agreeing to collect less than the full tax rate. But of course that's still more than if the building wasn't built at all. So it's a tax break off something that wasn't going to exist at all. And that's a very different animal to giving away actual dollars collected from taxpayers.

The hope of course is that the city will be better off having a shiny new building, more jobs, more employees paying city income tax, more contractors, suppliers, maintenance and cleaning contract companies, food service companies, restaurants and shops in the bld paying taxes, etc, and the city will be better off for it having been built.


It seems a lot of these things don't work out for cities, but perhaps it's just because we hear about the failures, and the successes go about their business without controversy?

[Richard]

^ my apologies I forgot to add the link.

https://www.metrotimes.com/news/how-...oticed-5981552

How Dan Gilbert just scored up to $1 billion in taxpayer money — and few noticed

I agree with what you posted,but also think there needs to be a balance,because in the future it will effect the cities ability to sell bonds.

Bonds are backed by taxpayer dollars ,anticipated revenue collections,if you are eliminating the tax collection by giving relief to a majority of the current development with the use of tax capture, you will not have that growth to depend on and will have to increase the tax on the current residents in order to sell the bonds in the future.

Because that will become your only way to secure them.

It’s a balancing act of adding new growth with incentives verses adding new growth that will immediately add to the tax coffers.

Hence why I posted before - what is happening now is great for 10-20-30 years down the road,not so much for that time period in-between.

I do not think the councils opposing this is not about giving graft to billionaires but actually realizing what is going on and taking steps to prevent that.

Or maybe I am trying really hard to believe that they are actually practicing good governance. If that is the case,wow.

A lot of cities are punch drunk right now because of the huge influx of cash from the stimulus and infrastructure packages and are doing things and implementing programs based on that,what happens when that money runs out,it goes right back on the taxpayers,and back to the question of how do we pay for this now?

[Richard]

See Richard this is one reason why so many on this forum challenge you. You think we don't notice your twisted logic... such as comparing grammar with a $60 million loan...lol

I'm surprised that someone with your real estate acumen doesn't know that "that local mortgage company" of whence you speak... Rocket Mortgage... is America's largest mortgage lender...

I know exactly who they are,do you think possibly they could be the un-named bank reference in the article?

Sometimes if you stand up things do not go so far over your head

It makes it easy to say,the bank will not give me the funding without the $60 million - when you own the bank.

get it?

[Johnnny5]

Detroit City Council approves $60M tax break for Dan Gilbert on Hudson's project


https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...t/10154753002/


All those who own property or businesses in Detroit should remember this next time their tax bill comes due. You won't be getting a discount for your business, but one of the richest men on the planet is!

I won't claim to be a expert in real estate development, but I have a very hard time believing that Gilbert's Bed Rock was putting up 1 billion in cash and equity yet was unable to finance the remaining 400 million without this tax break.

I wonder how many brown paper lunch bags this project required?

[Danny]

Looks like dirt poor and broke Dan Gilbert will have his financial wish after all. Just in time to do some debt collecting in the midst on global inflation to pay his bills.

Rich people do pay their bills,too.