Windsor city planners look to copy Holland's roads

[Margaret's boy]

I know this has been talked about before on this forum, but with the new Gordie Howe Bridge incorporating bike lanes, could there come a day when Detroit and Windsor become as bike-friendly as Amsterdam? Planners, engineers look at going Dutch on local roads | Windsor Star

[Johnnny5]

That would be wonderful, but I sure hope they take into account the one huge issue. SNOW! Holland gets little to none of it, while Detroit and Windsor see 2-3ft in an average year.

"Painted bike lanes, raised sidewalks through intersections and flex posts popping up in the middle of streets are just some of the ideas that are new to Windsor and are being considered to make local streets safer and more comfortable for cyclists and pedestrians."

Unfortunately, while all of these features would make it safer for pedestrians and cyclists they also make it nearly impossible to efficiently clear the roads in the Winter. As someone that spent nearly a decade in the snow removal business, things like this would have given me nightmares.

That said, I'm also a cyclist so I understand the desire for safer roads. I just hope they don't seriously underestimate the difficulties and long term costs that will be involved in maintaining them during the Winter.

[K-slice]

How many months per year do we really get accumulating snow? I HATE the "it's cold, snow exists here" excuse as to why things can't improve.

You can comfortably ride your bike into November most years and snow sticks around MAYBE through March. Mind you, I'm talking about snow that sticks and accumulates. So maybe 4 months of the year people don't bike.

I would argue too that the explosion of e-bikes and scooters is all the more reason to build roads for transport mediums other than cars.

[Richard]

I think there is a difference between being bike friendly and safe bike friendly,we have bike lanes up the yazoo but Florida ranks 3rd in the nation for bicycle deaths.

We have dedicated bike trails,that connect cities that you can ride for days,they are always busy,the actual bike lanes not so much.

[EGrant]

Most of our "bike lanes" are just lines painted on the street, or some plastic dividers to separate traffic from the lane, which is still dangerous. Real bike lanes offer safe and separate paths for bikes, and we have almost none of those.

[Canadian Visitor]

Where roads are wide enough, this is my preferred way of providing safe on-road cycling: [[proposal for Toronto's Sheppard Avenue East)

[Canadian Visitor]

On a different, but related note, I wish Windsor [[and Toronto) would copy, Holland Michigan's sidewalks!

https://www.holland.org/snow-free-holland

They use snow-melt technology under them.

[Richard]

^ if they can do that then they can provide free heat and hot water to all the houses,because they burning waste to generate the heat,of course one would not want to drink it after running through miles of toxic plastic pipe,better to keep ‘em buried.

It looks like Toronto is not very rail friendly either,in that proposal,it’s not even in the thought process,or even pedestrian friendly cross walks.

[Canadian Visitor]

It looks like Toronto is not very rail friendly either,in that proposal,it’s not even in the thought process,or even pedestrian friendly cross walks.

Rather off-topic; but also nonsense, there's a subway right under that road, and you can see the station in that rendering!

There's no crosswalk there, because the perspective is taken from under a railway underpass and mid-way between 2 traffic lights where there are places to cross.

[canuck]

Rather off-topic; but also nonsense, there's a subway right under that road, and you can see the station in that rendering!

There's no crosswalk there, because the perspective is taken from under a railway underpass and mid-way between 2 traffic lights where there are places to cross.

This guy from London Ontario immigrated to the Netherlands and produces a bunch of Videos for his Youtube channel. He is an urban planner and he may have influenced the Windsor folks to act on this street design.

https://youtu.be/ORzNZUeUHAM

[Embee]

^ The city of London, Ontario has been experimenting with this over the past few years. That city is in the Lake Huron snowbelt so if it can work there it would work anywhere.

[expatriate]

Yes, the "Not Just Bikes" channel on YouTube has some terrific pieces on urban design.

[expatriate]

How many months per year do we really get accumulating snow? I HATE the "it's cold, snow exists here" excuse as to why things can't improve.

You can comfortably ride your bike into November most years and snow sticks around MAYBE through March. Mind you, I'm talking about snow that sticks and accumulates. So maybe 4 months of the year people don't bike.

I would argue too that the explosion of e-bikes and scooters is all the more reason to build roads for transport mediums other than cars.

Agreed. It can be done. Arguably Finland has much harsher winters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

[Richard]

Rather off-topic; but also nonsense, there's a subway right under that road, and you can see the station in that rendering!

There's no crosswalk there, because the perspective is taken from under a railway underpass and mid-way between 2 traffic lights where there are places to cross.

You posted a link that referenced Hollands Mich. snow melt system,so you went off topic,is there a subway line under the roadway rendering that you posted?

Why would they have to use a perspective based on standing on a bridge? One would think if they are showing a perspective of a roadway they would include how all forms of transportation fit into that picture including how pedestrians and bicycles navigate it safely.

Because that is really what it is about.

[Johnnny5]

How many months per year do we really get accumulating snow? I HATE the "it's cold, snow exists here" excuse as to why things can't improve.

You can comfortably ride your bike into November most years and snow sticks around MAYBE through March. Mind you, I'm talking about snow that sticks and accumulates. So maybe 4 months of the year people don't bike.

I would argue too that the explosion of e-bikes and scooters is all the more reason to build roads for transport mediums other than cars.

My issue isn't with the cold and snow preventing cycling [[Although is will for some), but with basing our infrastructure improvements on a system from a relatively snow free area. These options are just not likely to work as well in Detroit as they do in Amsterdam, and some would not only create expensive maintenance headaches, but would be unusable to cyclists for extended periods every Winter.

I just watched the video Expatriate posted and it covers the issue very well. It shows one town in Finland [[Oulu) where cycling is commonplace even during the cold and snowy winters. I'd encourage those interested to watch and see how it's been done. A hint, it's not "Painted bike lanes, raised sidewalks through intersections and flex posts popping up in the middle of streets".

[Richard]

Amsterdam has always had a heavy bicycle presence,because of its density,just as most of Europe,mostly because people could not afford a car.

Lots like to make comparisons on how it is elsewhere without taking into consideration,like in Spain where 80% of the population lives on 1/4 of the available land where a bicycle ride to destinations are minutes verses miles and has been a part of their culture for decades and the automobile is considered a secondary form of transportation.

I do not think every city can mimic what every other city does,because every city is unique in its own way,there are some basics as to what works safely,innovative like what Holland Mich is doing in order to solve the seasonal aspect etc and put together a plan for the city.

Then you have places like in the Philippines and Vietnam and China where everybody shares the same lane no matter what the form of transportation is in a form of poetic madness,but it works.