Another Handout on the Backs of Taxpayers, Detroit's "Right to Counsel"

**K-slice** · May-11-22, 08:39 AM

I feel like this went under the radar until the final moment, at least, when it comes to the general publics awareness. I'm on several local news sites daily and only heard this on Monday. Apparently the deadbeats have really been rallying for this though as their campaign got everyone on the council to vote yes.

I've been in court for eviction cases, they are usually open and shut. Little evidence needed other than what someone could easily attain by taking pictures and speaking for themselves. "Did you pay your rent? No? Ok, Pay within 30 days or get out. Next case".

Per the Det News:
"The ordinance will provide $6 million in federal COVID relief funds and another $4 million from a philanthropic partner in its first year to fund court representation to those most in need. Advocates say more than $17 million is needed in the first year of the initiative."

Where will all those finds be coming from once the Covid money dried up? Think of what good could be done with $17 million dollars rather than paying lawyers to attempt to defend those already leaching off someone else's hard work.

When it comes down to it, follow the money. Who is benefiting most from this? The lawyers getting those city checks written to them of course. I wont be surprised to see a year from now that the $17 million turned into 25 million and a total of 10 cases were taken on.

**One Shot** · May-11-22, 12:09 PM

Lawyers and the left are the scum of the earth right now. Promises of free everything and get out of jail cards. Why can't society pride itself on doing something to better ourselves instead of making it ok to fail???

**Meddle** · May-11-22, 03:33 PM

The word is counsel and yes, everyone is entitled to legal representation. Foreclosures and evictions are out of control and need to be stopped whenever possible. At the very least, they need court oversight to make sure the landlords aren't abusing the process.

**swingline** · May-12-22, 12:35 PM

There are massive abuses on both sides of the landlord/tenant equation. Yes, there are thousands of experienced freeloader tenants who know how to squeeze free occupancy out of the length of time it takes for LL/T cases to get to an actual eviction. Likewise, there are thousands of landlords who take advantage of renters with little money and few choices by avoiding basic maintenance and bleeding units until they cannot be rented any longer. Anyone who leaps to the conclusion that tenants cause all the problems almost certainly voted for Donald Trump which speaks volumes about their objectivity. Providing tenants with legal representation will help level the playing field once the LL/T relationship progresses, or regresses as it were, to court. You can’t evict someone from a unit that has non-working appliances or plumbing, no heat or roof leaks. A tenant lawyer can make sure that doesn’t happen and can make sure that things get fixed. And landlords needn’t worry about scales tipping. If a dispute is simply a matter of unpaid rent and not appalling unit conditions, the best lawyer in the world will not be able to delay the eviction process.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · May-12-22, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by One Shot

Lawyers and the left are the scum of the earth right now. Promises of free everything and get out of jail cards. Why can't society pride itself on doing something to better ourselves instead of making it ok to fail???

At least you don’t paint with and overly broad brush. I’m much more nuanced…..I only think 90% of Trump voters are scum. The other 10% just aren’t paying attention.

**Honky Tonk** · May-12-22, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

At least you don’t paint with and overly broad brush. I’m much more nuanced…..I only think 90% of Trump voters are scum. The other 10% just aren’t paying attention.

Thank God they have libtards to light their way.

**Jimaz** · May-12-22, 09:17 PM

Being unaware that one is unaware is not the same as being aware.

**Wheels** · May-13-22, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

At least you don’t paint with and overly broad brush. I’m much more nuanced…..I only think 90% of Trump voters are scum. The other 10% just aren’t paying attention.

If Libtards had a pronoun it would be was/were.

**Gistok** · May-13-22, 06:08 PM

Well it didn't take long for this thread to become one big name calling food fight...

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · May-13-22, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Wheels

If Libtards had a pronoun it would be was/were.

Please check the definition of pronouns. Those are not pronouns. Even if they were, “was/were” would not be “a” pronoun.

**Zacha341** · May-14-22, 08:23 AM

They [eh, the pronouns] are changing fast - incoming! TicTok is a popular portal where pronoun variables, and amendments are declared/ updated daily. One of my employers using official email signatures has so far not mandated, or soft-cudgeled the use of pronouns [I choose to opt out].

Some have given a nod to the 'option', by adding theirs. One added this link to help others understanding the pronoun reasoning:

https://www.mypronouns.org/what-and-why/

If you work in some mental health services, media and other areas of employment you're nearly a pariah - sometimes 'labeled', if you don't declare YOUR pronoun preference. As if your 'choice' not to is an offense to someone choosing to do so...

... funny how 'options' shift....

**Zacha341** · May-14-22, 08:55 AM

What?! You don't LIKE the affirmed race-to-the-bottom we're seeing at the social and economic levels increasingly?

Originally Posted by One Shot

Lawyers and the left are the scum of the earth right now. Promises of free everything and get out of jail cards. Why can't society pride itself on doing something to better ourselves instead of making it ok to fail???

**K-slice** · May-16-22, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by swingline

Providing tenants with legal representation will help level the playing field once the LL/T relationship progresses, or regresses as it were, to court. You can’t evict someone from a unit that has non-working appliances or plumbing, no heat or roof leaks. A tenant lawyer can make sure that doesn’t happen and can make sure that things get fixed. And landlords needn’t worry about scales tipping. If a dispute is simply a matter of unpaid rent and not appalling unit conditions, the best lawyer in the world will not be able to delay the eviction process.

That's what a judge is for, or multiple city and state agencies that already exist to support tenants. Laws prevent slumlords from being able to operate, and if they do so despite the law, then reform the system.

Does a tenant need a lawyer to understand a rented space should be habitable? No
Does a tenant need a lawyer to take pictures of unacceptable conditions and take them to court? No
Will a lawyer needed to provide substantial legal advice on tenant law which, when it comes down to it, just basic common sense for the most part? No

My point is that this giveaway to lawyers is, at best, marginally beneficial to those who actually need help, and ripe for those who will exploit it to keep cases pending while they leach off the owner.

If the city wants to help, employ someone who knows rent law and can provide assistance on a hotline, or in scheduled meetings... Oh wait, they already do that [[rightfully so), and this whole exercise is a totally redundant cash giveaway.

**JonWylie** · May-16-22, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by K-slice

That's what a judge is for, or multiple city and state agencies that already exist to support tenants. Laws prevent slumlords from being able to operate, and if they do so despite the law, then reform the system.

Does a tenant need a lawyer to understand a rented space should be habitable? No
Does a tenant need a lawyer to take pictures of unacceptable conditions and take them to court? No
Will a lawyer needed to provide substantial legal advice on tenant law which, when it comes down to it, just basic common sense for the most part? No

My point is that this giveaway to lawyers is, at best, marginally beneficial to those who actually need help, and ripe for those who will exploit it to keep cases pending while they leach off the owner.

If the city wants to help, employ someone who knows rent law and can provide assistance on a hotline, or in scheduled meetings... Oh wait, they already do that [[rightfully so), and this whole exercise is a totally redundant cash giveaway.

I assume you're not an attorney? Because the idea that the Court is going to stick their neck out for a tenant is asinie.

**swingline** · May-17-22, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by K-slice

That's what a judge is for, or multiple city and state agencies that already exist to support tenants. Laws prevent slumlords from being able to operate, and if they do so despite the law, then reform the system.

Does a tenant need a lawyer to understand a rented space should be habitable? No
Does a tenant need a lawyer to take pictures of unacceptable conditions and take them to court? No
Will a lawyer needed to provide substantial legal advice on tenant law which, when it comes down to it, just basic common sense for the most part? No

My point is that this giveaway to lawyers is, at best, marginally beneficial to those who actually need help, and ripe for those who will exploit it to keep cases pending while they leach off the owner.

If the city wants to help, employ someone who knows rent law and can provide assistance on a hotline, or in scheduled meetings... Oh wait, they already do that [[rightfully so), and this whole exercise is a totally redundant cash giveaway.

All of your arguments apply equally to landlords. So to make it fair, why don't we make a rule prohibiting landlords from hiring an attorney to represent themselves in LL/T court? The law and procedure is just as simple for them, right?

**Rocket** · May-17-22, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by swingline

All of your arguments apply equally to landlords. So to make it fair, why don't we make a rule prohibiting landlords from hiring an attorney to represent themselves in LL/T court? The law and procedure is just as simple for them, right?

True. They don't really [and certainly the government isn't paying for the lawyers]

However I think most landlords use an attorney just to save time. If they have 40 or 100 units for example, they might be at the courthouse all the time, and never be able to get any repairs done on their rental units.

I have a neighbor who runs apartment buildings. He and a few other landlords share a guy that is at the courthouse a lot. And that guy walks their cases through the system for them.

**Richard** · May-17-22, 02:49 PM

I can already see how this will play out,based on how the city I live in does it.

In city limits - Landlord has to have a rental permit- to many complaints they lose the ability to rent.

If the tenant has an issue with the LL,they take the monthly rent check and deposit it with the clerk of court until it goes to court,legal assistance is provided but not legal representation in court.

On the day of court they provide proof of LL negligence in photos and proof that the funds were deposited in good faith,there is no case,no need for lawyer.

The end result is

There are some who have figured out how to use the system and by using the system they can delay the actual eviction for up to a year,it would not matter if they were in the wrong in the first place.

So in order to counter that LL now requires 1st last plus deposit and credit check and no evictions on record.

So that leaves a percentage of the population that is reduced to renting not so nice places after signing a agreement that they are full aware of the existing condition of the property and are paying a reduced rate in consideration of.

It makes it pretty cut and dry.

Interesting to note,in Florida the LL is only required to provide heat and not A/C,people online,it’s 100 degrees in this house,I am not paying my rent until they fix the A/C - good luck with that.

The only appliances the LL are required to fix are the ones that were in the house at the time of rental.

In the UK they took that one step further,tenants provide their own appliances including refrigerator,the only thing the LL provides is the heating boiler,kitchen sink,toilet and tub.

I had a house I rented to section 8,the woman met a guy and decided she was going to move in with her boyfriend and wanted to transfer benefits,but she was still under lease contract,so she told section 8 that the heater was not working,so they withheld payment to me,and allowed her to break lease and transfer benefits.

She stole the thermostat off of the wall,which caused the heater not to work,in the middle of the summer.

Section 8 paid me the balance of the lease term and she is no longer eligible to have section 8 ,but that process took 4 months,they said they had another tenant lined up if I wanted,it was easy to say,no.

It just becomes more feasible and less headaches to rent to established people with good credit,which in turn removes a lot of housing suitable for low income.

Eventually you get like California with 60,000 homeless in the streets,because you have removed all options.

**Dennis2021** · May-17-22, 05:28 PM

The world has been turned upside down into the twilight zone. Something for nothing. Take care of those able to work for the sake of votes. Sickening.

**Henry Whalley** · May-17-22, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

Please check the definition of pronouns. Those are not pronouns. Even if they were, “was/were” would not be “a” pronoun.

Wheels prolly skipped school the day they taught pronouns

**oladub** · May-17-22, 10:40 PM

"Per the Det News:
"The ordinance will provide $6 million in federal COVID relief funds""

If a tenant couldn't pay their rent because of the effects of Covid, this might make sense but it should be given to the landlord or bank whose payment was overdue. To use it to fight landlords, if that is what's happening, is instead a perversion of the intent for which that money was given.

**Richard** · May-18-22, 01:58 AM

Cities and states are in a tizzy figuring out how to spend all of this free money,the problem is when they use free money as start up money,when it runs out,you either have to shut the program down or increase taxes to pay for it.

Usually with social programs it ends up increasing the taxes.

It used to be that you had to follow intent when it came to fed funds but as of late it is just equivalent to dumping truck loads of free cash on states and cities with the have at it attitude.

I bet you with all of this free money under the guise of COVID,there will be no city or state that builds up its emergency pandemic supply of ventilators or masks or even toilet paper,then when the next pandemic hits,they will all be blaming the feds like last time in front of the cameras all day,while people die.

They could save the planet and give everybody a free solar panel with the funds,but then they would have to actually believe in it.

They used COVID funds to trim the trees in my neighborhood for the first time in probably 50 years,a majority were protected granddaddy oaks over 100 years old,now it looks like they sent a crackhead through with a chainsaw as butchered up as they are ,I have to get a special permit to even trim mine,but they can come through willy nilly.

They are just manufacturing ways to spend money before it disappears,the feds pretty much said it can be used for anything but paying down debt or pension obligations.

**K-slice** · May-19-22, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by swingline

All of your arguments apply equally to landlords. So to make it fair, why don't we make a rule prohibiting landlords from hiring an attorney to represent themselves in LL/T court? The law and procedure is just as simple for them, right?

You're right, they do, but the property owners aren't getting the taxpayers to shell out for their legal representation. Therein lies the difference.

If a tenant wants to pay a lawyer to represent them then so be it, same for the property owner. I don't want my tax dollars going to either of them.

Pretty big distinction you missed there.

**Dumpling** · May-21-22, 06:54 AM

Is there an upside to being evicted and how often?

Is there a financial case to be made to John Q Detroit
Taxpayer for not evicting tenants?

Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City: Desmond, Matthew: 9780553447453: Books - Amazon

More often than not JQDT mows the grass for
the vacant property between evicted tenants.

Sometimes, depending on the tenants, this is
the desirable alternative, but more often it is
better to have the tenants be there to mow
the grass and keep up the property in other ways.

"Evicted" paints the eviction picture in the extreme
but very often people are evicted for rather low
amounts of unpaid rent that they fell behind on.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · May-21-22, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Dumpling

Is there an upside to being evicted and how often?

Is there a financial case to be made to John Q Detroit
Taxpayer for not evicting tenants?

Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City: Desmond, Matthew: 9780553447453: Books - Amazon

More often than not JQDT mows the grass for
the vacant property between evicted tenants.

Sometimes, depending on the tenants, this is
the desirable alternative, but more often it is
better to have the tenants be there to mow
the grass and keep up the property in other ways.

"Evicted" paints the eviction picture in the extreme
but very often people are evicted for rather low
amounts of unpaid rent that they fell behind on.

Thanks for the link.