Windsor Scores 2500 job Stellantis EV Battery Plant

[Lowell]

Good news for our metro family members on the Southside.

https://freep-mi.newsmemory.com?publ...230639b_13483c

[Margaret's boy]

I know this is not exactly a new thread, but the scale and scope of this project puts Detroit/Windsor at the center of electric vehicle production in the 21st century. The details of the new battery plant were finally revealed. Who knows what kind of impact this could have on metro-Detroit, having the largest battery plant in North America located directly across the border with access to all the major Detroit freeways via the Gordie Howe bridge and Detroit's large pool of experienced tech workers. Local plant bigger than combined capacity of current U.S. production | Windsor Star

[casscorridor]

Interesting that they found the land for a 45gw plant in Windsor. But when similar plants where announced by GM and Ford in Tennessee, Ohio, etc the excuses given as to why it was not in Michigan included that there wasn't enough land.

But is the problem not a lack of land but a lack of political will? Michigan is the home of auto manufacturing so naturally it should be the home of EV battery manufacturing as well. Michigan's landers will happily watch as other states steal our crown jewel right from under our noses!

[401don]

It didn't hurt that both the province and federal gov't are spending hundreds of millions on it. Interesting that they didn't want to reveal the numbers at the press conference.

[Canadian Visitor]

It didn't hurt that both the province and federal gov't are spending hundreds of millions on it. Interesting that they didn't want to reveal the numbers at the press conference.

The Federal number is 500M

Not sure about the provincial.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/winds...dsor-1.6396023

It is a get; but I'm really not a fan of corporate welfare.

[Richard]

It didn't hurt that both the province and federal gov't are spending hundreds of millions on it. Interesting that they didn't want to reveal the numbers at the press conference.

That seems to be a growing trend even here in the states,incentives are how things get done but if they are using taxpayers money,they should be required to disclose.

[Lowell]

And who says ICE is dead? This from today's Free Press.

[Zacha341]

^ Yes. BMW and Mercedes has been putting the double-turbs in for a while. Some have had serious overheating issues due to that. I'll stick with the standard aspiration ICE format until the bugs are worked out.

[oladub]

Zacha, Do consider EV technology. I bought a Bolt a year ago January assuming Biden would increase gasoline costs, having two sons who owned Volts; one of whom is EVangelical about EVs, its a simpler technology with fewer parts to go bad.

What I discovered good and bad about EVs. Almost all of my charges take place in my garage. It takes less time to hook up or unhook my charging cord than it takes the garage door to open or shut. Because it is so quiet, I have the best radio sound quality I've ever had. Also, the acceleration is so good that I can beat almost anyone off the line up to the speed limit.

On the negative side, much needs to be done to get more charging stations built off the interstates. I've used superchargers at Walmarts along the interstate that disappoint because I'm not through browsing in Walmart when my phone lets me know I'm already charged to 80% 20 minutes later. However, I frequent a cabin 88 miles away from the city. I can easily make the round trip on one overnight garage charge. However, last week I forgot to charge my car at home and realized along the way the I needed 20 miles more charge to make the round trip. The Plugshare website said the charger i would have preferred to use was broken so i had the option of only three other slower garage speed chargers along the way. I used the first one 25 miles away. It was in the Richland Center community center parking lot. Lowell knows where that is. I went for a long walk for exercise and bought some Kwik-Trip sort of food while my wife went inside and had conversation with some oldsters [[older than us anyway) who were playing cards. It turned out we had some mutual acquantences. With that slower level II charger it took about 70 minutes to add 31 miles of charge but it was free electricity. I wouldn't recommend an EV as a primary car at this point for anyone who does a lot of driving away from the interstates. We aren't there yet. Otherwise, I enjoy it more than any ICE car I've ever owned.

One more thought. If the charger I used had been down or was being used, the next charger, also free, was another 25 or so miles down the highway in Spring Green in front of a veterinary clinic in a residential neighborhood about 6 blocks from the highway. EV charging stations are not at the point of assuming there to be one in the next town.

[Lowell]

^What is the range of your Bolt? My next car will definitely be EV, but I will expect a minimum range of 400 miles by then. Thousand mile batteries, which will come eventually, along with the nationwide charging network in the infrastructure bill, should silence all charging issues. And don't forget the Frank Lloyd Wright's German Warehouse in Richland Center birthplace.

I notice they got finally got their stuff together and are running tours again. https://www.adgermanwarehouse.org/the-1912

[Richard]

I guess it would be subjective to what ICE cars one has owned,if it has been a string of Pintos,Yugos,citations etc. an EV might be refreshing.

This all reminds me of the trajectory that the solar industry took,its not the completed arrays,it’s the bits and pieces that are used in the manufacturing process that has limitations.

The US invented the silicone wafer used in the manufacturing of a solar panel,billions in taxpayer dollars and private investment were spent creating factories and the solar market.

Now China supplies 80% of the solar wafers to the industry,those factories and jobs are now in the wind in this country.

Now the solar farms are leasing massive amounts of farmland at up to $1000 per acre in order to have enough land to make it feasible.Providing clean energy,but no food.

The US and Canada are becoming the hood stores of the world,money flows in from the locals then transferred out, never actually benefiting the hood.


They say there are enough of the raw materials in the ground in order to meet the demand,but demand increases price,you have an entire world competing for those same materials at a time when most countries are at 100% debt to GDP ratios coming out of the pandemic,now they have woken up to the fact that they need to quadruple their military capacity.

When given the option of EVs or protecting your nation,the military will win,which increases the demand for raw materials even more.

If China can produce a trinket,ship it 5000 miles away and sell it in the store for 25c what do people think will happen in the EV world ?

They can say that 60% of new EVs will be built by year XXXX but what they are not saying is,what percentage of the population will be able to afford them,and what percentage of the population will be driven below the line due to the increased taxes needed to incentivize a industry.

The automotive manufacturers have admitted there are goals that are not obtainable,but when the taxpayers throw billions at them in order for them to make it appear obtainable,what are we really accomplishing?

[Margaret's boy]

Personally I'll believe it when I see it. I've been disappointed too often by the grifters up in Ottawa to believe this plant will ever happen.

[oladub]

^What is the range of your Bolt? My next car will definitely be EV, but I will expect a minimum range of 400 miles by then. Thousand mile batteries, which will come eventually, along with the nationwide charging network in the infrastructure bill, should silence all charging issues. And don't forget the Frank Lloyd Wright's German Warehouse in Richland Center birthplace.

I notice they got finally got their stuff together and are running tours again. https://www.adgermanwarehouse.org/the-1912

I bought my 20 Bolt in January of 21. The 21's had come out. I had a GM Card that covered $7,500 of the price and GM was stumbling over itself to get 20's off their lots so I bought a brand new Bolt for about $18,800 plus a bunch of transportation, licensing, and weird dealer things for just a little over $21,000. Its a trimmed out version with seat heaters.

I think it was advertised as having a 259 mile range. However, I have had a fully charged range of only 186 miles in below zero weather and 286 miles in hot July weather. My sons tell me that if the Bolt has a major fault it is that it charges slower than a lot of EVs. That isn't much of a problem with me because I always top it off overnight. If I have 40 miles left on it, I am topped off in 6-8 hours in my garage. For people who work day shifts, my local utility offers a reduced nighttime electricity rate. Wisconsin charges an extra $100 a year registration fee to offset not paying gas taxes. Fair enough. What isn't cool is trying to add 15 miles of charge to make it home sitting in a cold car, to charge it faster, in winter a dark neighborhood in Spring Green.

The Bolt catching fire story is not my concern. Only 1 2020 Bolt has ever caught fire but GM plans to give me a new battery anyway.

Because innovation is improving EV range and charging time so rapidly, older EVs have not held up their resale value. Consider buying last year's model in January like I did or even a fairly new used. EV if you are going to be mostly charging it in your garage.

https://www.plugshare.com for current locations of charging stations. Check Detroit to Chicago vs. the UP.

Levels of charging stations primer: https://www.forbes.com/wheels/advice...arging-levels/

Electrify America introduces new charging center concept: https://insideevs.com/news/575819/el...tation-future/

My 7 year old grandson's take on seeing my Bolt for the first time: "It looks stubby on the outside but has a lot of room on the inside." After that pretty good car review, I decided to nickname it Stubby but my wife likes it so much she doesn't want me calling it Stubby.

[Lowell]

Great stories and charging information and links Oladub. You're a man ahead of your times.

[renf]

There is very much appropriate attention upon the location of the new
battery plants for electric vehicles and some reasonable concern about
what Tennessee offered Ford that Michigan did not.

Is there also concern that the Detroit area and Michigan may lose out
when new plants to produce chips are sited in this country? I think
a major new such plant is scheduled for construction in Licking County
Ohio. Did Michigan lost our on that opportunity?

Which one of the dozen or so candidates for governor has the most
experience and most sophisticated plan for encouraging employment
growth in Detroit and Michigan?

[Jimaz]

... Is there also concern that the Detroit area and Michigan may lose out when new plants to produce chips are sited in this country? I think a major new such plant is scheduled for construction in Licking County Ohio. Did Michigan lost our on that opportunity?...

Here's an article from last year about new chip plants in Arizona: Why Intel and TSMC are building water-dependent chip factories in one of the driest U.S. states.

The article explains that recycling, etc. can compensate for the scarcity of water but that doesn't explain why the plants can't be built elsewhere. "The political machinery in Arizona" and other reasons are given but to me it sounds like the kind of poor decision that would be reached by a panel of "yes men."

That kind of investment needs a stable environment over a long term and Arizona's is simply not sustainable, IMHO.

Ehem, Michigan's water is also recyclable, in case that needed to be said.

[Richard]

The link provided says that there is already a large chip presence in Arizona,kinda like an already established silicone valley in Arizona.

It also says

Ultimately, it largely boils down to politics.
“The political machinery in Arizona is determined to make the state business friendly,” said O’Donnell. “More business equals more and better jobs equals more votes to the power brokers. The recent announcements by Intel and TSMC come via a lot of help from federal, state and local government entities.”


You just have to decide as a state whether you want big government or big business,the people chose big government.

Then your representatives are sending this message


“No one fought harder for President Biden’s agenda than progressives,” Tlaib said. “We rally together with our supporters held town halls in our communities, engage new people, and we even played hardball in Congress. But two forces stood in the way a Republican Party that serves only the rich and the powerful, and just enough corporate back Democratic obstructionist to help them succeed.”


https://www.mlive.com/public-interes...the-union.html

So if you were a large corporation looking to locate somewhere,why would you even think about locating somewhere where you know in advance you will not be welcome?

It’s the rich and powerful that are building these businesses and creating employment opportunities,you are making it clear you want nothing to do with them,outside of forcing them to pay for people not to work or reap the rewards without paying the dues,so it is saying we do not want you in existence,but as long as you are it is your responsibility to pay our way.

Not saying you personally, as in everybody,but it is clearly a general local consensus otherwise they would not be in power.

So you did not get it because you do not want it,who pays the price? Clearly not the nasty big corporations because they have an entire country to choose from,and there are people that are maybe a bit more hungry.

All it is doing is causing more to leave for opportunity in other states which leaves the rest to make up for the difference,well,you guys know the drill,but continue down the same path expecting different results.

[Richard]

We're Not Even Close to EVs Being as Cheap as Gas Cars, Mercedes Says

Reaching so-called "price parity," Schäfer said, just isn't possible with any current commercially available battery technology. The kind of affordable, high-density batteries required to make it possible either don't exist or only exist in tightly-controlled lab settings. Even once we know which one will work, adapting it for the automotive industry—with its high volumes and extremely challenging durability requirements—will be a years-long process. While we wait for a breakthrough, Schäfer says they can't promise that EVs will get any cheaper in the near term.

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/were-not...175700417.html