Calling all realtors

[David L]

With property crime being a huge issue in Detroit, why did Realtor.com and Zillow stop showing crime statistics in it's listings?

[Mackenzie68]

They also dropped it in California.

[Richard]

The real estate companies have removed the data due to growing concerns that it could perpetuate racial inequity.

https://magazine.realtor/daily-news/...ta-on-listings

Maybe that’s why they are listing houses in the hood where you need steel shutters in order to deflect the drive by shots for $350,000 by me,unsuspecting buyers buying over the internet.

The new Jeep factory is having the same issues

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...?ocid=msedgntp

[Zacha341]

They did/ do this to be politically correct.

In the meantime, you'd best do your own research and watch for adjacent streets that can bleed crime onto otherwise nice block.

With property crime being a huge issue in Detroit, why did Realtor.com and Zillow stop showing crime statistics in it's listings?

[Lowell]

Why bother with crime statistics. If one wants a quick measure of local residents' opinion count the percentage of houses with metal bar doors.

[DeLemur]

With property crime being a huge issue in Detroit, why did Realtor.com and Zillow stop showing crime statistics in it's listings?

Good question.
Crime stats are usually pretty poorly assembled. Before buying a house I always visit it later at night to see what the street life is like around it. Talk to neighbors about crime ect..

[Wesley Mouch]

They did/ do this to be politically correct.
...

Yes, but....

I think we need to look more critically at Zillow's motivation.

The current politically correct culture [[aka cancel culture) isn't a white paper sitting in an academic's desk, its an active campaign to 'shame' those who don't follow. [[See NYTimes recent article.)

So I don't think they just decided one morning meeting that it was 'politically incorrect' to 'stigmatize' neighborhoods -- I believe they are responding to incentives to comply with their younger staff who have less respect for 'free speech' and more for 'we are all racists'.

As such, this is one more battle in the world of CRT. If you really want an analysis of how CRT is dangerously Marxist, seek out James Lindsay and his 'New Discourses' podcast.

Sorry to bring CRT into this, but CRT affects Detroit significantly. It takes the side of Malcolm X rather than MLK. It encourages division by identity group, and it defines much of the world by racism, not our commonality. I think we're better served by less division [[X) and more unity [[MLK). Taking CRT's side alienates good white people, with its focus on bad white people. That will hurt Detroit.

Back to Zillow... I think they were shamed into hiding these stats by claims of racism [[CRT says you must confront racism wherever CRT leaders see it, and you must find it even when of no impact [[crime stats) because you must be anti-racist.)

[Sehv313]

Why bother with crime statistics. If one wants a quick measure of local residents' opinion count the percentage of houses with metal bar doors.

That's pratically 99.9% of Detroit. You can find armor-guarded doors from Brightmoor to University District.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Yes, but....

I think we need to look more critically at Zillow's motivation.

The current politically correct culture [[aka cancel culture) isn't a white paper sitting in an academic's desk, its an active campaign to 'shame' those who don't follow. [[See NYTimes recent article.)

So I don't think they just decided one morning meeting that it was 'politically incorrect' to 'stigmatize' neighborhoods -- I believe they are responding to incentives to comply with their younger staff who have less respect for 'free speech' and more for 'we are all racists'.

As such, this is one more battle in the world of CRT. If you really want an analysis of how CRT is dangerously Marxist, seek out James Lindsay and his 'New Discourses' podcast.

Sorry to bring CRT into this, but CRT affects Detroit significantly. It takes the side of Malcolm X rather than MLK. It encourages division by identity group, and it defines much of the world by racism, not our commonality. I think we're better served by less division [[X) and more unity [[MLK). Taking CRT's side alienates good white people, with its focus on bad white people. That will hurt Detroit.

Back to Zillow... I think they were shamed into hiding these stats by claims of racism [[CRT says you must confront racism wherever CRT leaders see it, and you must find it even when of no impact [[crime stats) because you must be anti-racist.)

Oh yes, once again the scary “CRT” threatens white snowflakes. Heaven forbid that one might acknowledge that racism is actually still an issue. So much easier to deny and deflect. And then tune into Tucker.

[Detroit Stylin]

Yes, but....

I think we need to look more critically at Zillow's motivation.

The current politically correct culture [[aka cancel culture) isn't a white paper sitting in an academic's desk, its an active campaign to 'shame' those who don't follow. [[See NYTimes recent article.)

So I don't think they just decided one morning meeting that it was 'politically incorrect' to 'stigmatize' neighborhoods -- I believe they are responding to incentives to comply with their younger staff who have less respect for 'free speech' and more for 'we are all racists'.

As such, this is one more battle in the world of CRT. If you really want an analysis of how CRT is dangerously Marxist, seek out James Lindsay and his 'New Discourses' podcast.

Sorry to bring CRT into this, but CRT affects Detroit significantly. It takes the side of Malcolm X rather than MLK. It encourages division by identity group, and it defines much of the world by racism, not our commonality. I think we're better served by less division [[X) and more unity [[MLK). Taking CRT's side alienates good white people, with its focus on bad white people. That will hurt Detroit.

Back to Zillow... I think they were shamed into hiding these stats by claims of racism [[CRT says you must confront racism wherever CRT leaders see it, and you must find it even when of no impact [[crime stats) because you must be anti-racist.)

You really have no idea of what CRT is do you?

[Zacha341]

Actually, there are some very concerned AA Americans [quite hearty and hardly 'flaked' or default right-winged] also NOT agreeing 100% with the full trunk of goods within the vehicle of CRT [a trouble-some, not easy-to-dismiss factor many CRT proponents did not fully anticipate].

Going into it all could derail this thread. Suffice it to say in these next few paragraphs that while what CRT purports to address in K12 is not all false [America's unquestionable racist history, etc], CRT's solutions such as racial characteristic assigning and other teachings are being broadly questioned.

More POC, particularly parents, are pushing-back on what their children are being taught and handled. Especially broad-stoked assertions re. race. The height of C-19 online virtual teaching blew the lid off instruction re. what students reported/ experienced and what parents saw with their children. The Gabrielle Clark case re. what her high school son experienced is a good starting point re. problems with CRT [from a non-white point perspective].

Yes, she turns up on Fox-snews, but Clark is a mother of her son FIRST, before her story was covered there and other places such as link I provide above--first sentence and here [the Atlanta Black Star news]: Biracial Son Received Failing Grade In Class for Refusing to Confess His ‘White Dominance'.

There's more content re. the push-back against CRT beyond upset right-winged white folks hand-wringing as the surface narrative purports.

Oh yes, once again the scary “CRT” threatens white snowflakes. Heaven forbid that one might acknowledge that racism is actually still an issue. So much easier to deny and deflect. And then tune into Tucker.

[Zacha341]

Do you? To know more check out what black people have to say about it.

You really have no idea of what CRT is do you?

[Zacha341]

Indeed. I used the term Politically Incorrect as sort of a short-hand version of the broader ideologies and world views afoot you mention. Remember if you question any of this you're a racist. Course black folks [I'm black/AA] are used to being called names by everyone, and I mean eva-body! LOL! Even from those who claim us on their 'those who are oppressed' check-list. Sigh......

Anyway, if you have an area in mind to move in visit on a summer Saturday night. That'll give some indication of what's going on. Good as most stats!

...So I don't think they just decided one morning meeting that it was 'politically incorrect' to 'stigmatize' neighborhoods -- I believe they are responding to incentives to comply with their younger staff who have less respect for 'free speech' and more for 'we are all racists'.

As such, this is one more battle in the world of CRT. If you really want an analysis of how CRT is dangerously Marxist, seek out James Lindsay and his 'New Discourses' podcast.

Sorry to bring CRT into this, but CRT affects Detroit significantly. It takes the side of Malcolm X rather than MLK. It encourages division by identity group, and it defines much of the world by racism, not our commonality...

[Dumpling]

So the question from the OP was,
why did Realtor.com [and Zillow]
drop the crime layer in their listings?

I am simply a DetroitYes poster so
I don't have the power to know
exactly why this might be without
checking references!

Here is an explanatory link of the
CEO of Realtor.com explaining the
thought process:

https://therealdeal.com/2021/12/15/r...-fair-housing/

Though I didn't check the article after
seeing the link to it, there is an article
that Realtor.com "is first to disclose
flood risk for all home listings".

The CEO seems to be considering
how to reincorporate neighborhood
safety information into the listings.

Crime map information is still out
there even if real estate sites no
longer incorporate it. When Duggan
became mayor, crime information
from Detroit no longer went to
crimemapping.com but to a city
database, so the instant side by
side community comparison
was no longer there.

[Richard]

Yes, but....

I think we need to look more critically at Zillow's motivation.

The current politically correct culture [[aka cancel culture) isn't a white paper sitting in an academic's desk, its an active campaign to 'shame' those who don't follow. [[See NYTimes recent article.)

So I don't think they just decided one morning meeting that it was 'politically incorrect' to 'stigmatize' neighborhoods -- I believe they are responding to incentives to comply with their younger staff who have less respect for 'free speech' and more for 'we are all racists'.

As such, this is one more battle in the world of CRT. If you really want an analysis of how CRT is dangerously Marxist, seek out James Lindsay and his 'New Discourses' podcast.

Sorry to bring CRT into this, but CRT affects Detroit significantly. It takes the side of Malcolm X rather than MLK. It encourages division by identity group, and it defines much of the world by racism, not our commonality. I think we're better served by less division [[X) and more unity [[MLK). Taking CRT's side alienates good white people, with its focus on bad white people. That will hurt Detroit.

Back to Zillow... I think they were shamed into hiding these stats by claims of racism [[CRT says you must confront racism wherever CRT leaders see it, and you must find it even when of no impact [[crime stats) because you must be anti-racist.)

They could have simply said

Due to the underreporting of crime as a standard for law enforcement,we can no longer offer crime statistics as it would be based on unreliable information.

All they did before was look at the FBIs crime statistics as reported by local law enforcement,they did not actually go to the neighborhood and check it out.

So they had two options

1 Be inclusive and submit a statement like I posted.

2 Be divisive and take the route that they took.

Personally I think they are using divisiveness as a marketing tool in order to boost sales or traffic.

With a strong market,nobody really needs them,everybody knows their market estimates are worthless,the crime statistics are available from the FBIs website without their services,you can get a realtor to pull data off of the MLS and there are thousands of free Internet forums where you can get a more detailed look at any given area in any city in the country.

So these companies are actually exploiting African Americans for profit with the support of white social justice warriors acting like African Americans do not have the mental capacity to think for themselves it’s like taking a child by the hand and saying,it’s okay I will protect you,which I think is actually insulting.

[Dumpling]

Yes, but....


Sorry to bring CRT into this, but CRT affects Detroit significantly. It takes the side of Malcolm X rather than MLK. It encourages division by identity group, and it defines much of the world by racism, not our commonality. I think we're better served by less division [[X) and more unity [[MLK). Taking CRT's side alienates good white people, with its focus on bad white people. That will hurt Detroit.

It's a bit disingenuous to "take the side of
Malcolm X rather than MLK." Both leaders
were fighting social forces that devalued
African Americans. While Malcolm X took
a harsher tone in his rhetoric, he did come
from a harsher background than MLK
[he grew up in the Lansing area of Michigan]
and his family experienced many hardships
there.

While "that was then" [back in an era when
lynching was commonplace and lightly
punished whereas in our time it will
be prosecuted as a federal hate crime]
here is a bit of background on Malcolm X.

https://scholarworks.umass.edu/cgi/v...3&context=cibs

"What people don't understand is that
Malcolm X was part of a whole, that he
was part of a particular experience,
part of a tradition, part of a family
that resisted the corner into which
America tried to push them."

[Dumpling]

So these companies are actually exploiting African Americans for profit with the support of white social justice warriors acting like African Americans do not have the mental capacity to think for themselves it’s like taking a child by the hand and saying,it’s okay I will protect you,which I think is actually insulting.

I don't know much about Realtor.com's practices,
but Zillow went into real estate brokering for itself,
and even priced its offerings too high at one point,
so make no mistake, they will exploit anyone.
I would even go so far as to say that whites and
model minorities [aka low crime rate] would
have been more exploited by Zillow than African
Americans would have been due to their likely
higher home values that were artificially
pushed up further by Zillow.

[Richard]

^ they lost $420 million in 3 months on that bs,they are directly responsible for artificially inflating the market which pushed many first time home buyers out of the market.

Now the taxpayers are expected to bail them out in the form of subsided low income housing.

If you or I pulled that stunt we would be in jail.

They had to lay off over 2000 employees as their stock tanked.

By me anyways it did hurt the African American community more because it pushed the price of a fixer upper in their communities over $350,000 which caused the rents to double and triple.

[Wesley Mouch]

You really have no idea of what CRT is do you?

I regret that I chose to use CRT as the motivating factor in Zillow's action. Still true, IMO.

Why do I regret bringing it in? Because there's no agreed upon definition of CRT. You suggest its an acknowledgement of racism. I think it is reverse-racism.

One can hold both the view that we still have work to do on racism, and believe that the application of CRT's 'white fragility' argument is racism itself.

Other posters have said much about CRT. What matters to me is that we see that CRT has infused education and now corporate culture with stupid ideas like you can only be anti-racist if you are engage in their fight on 'systemic racism'.

But all that's irrelevant. Corporate culture now demands that leaders bend the knee. Leaders give in where they need to to keep their employees happy [[see NYT for example). I think this Zillow crime-stat action is motivated by this mistaken idea.

For another bad idea, it is now common in many Real Estate fields to use the term 'Primary Bedroom'. In my work, IU see the term 'Master Bedroom' being eliminated even in fields like architecture. When we seek to ban all uses of the word 'master' from some imagined slight, some imagined 'words are harm' reason... we are going down a road that will really harm Detroit as more people view AfricanAmericans as focused on race more than success -- and this divisiveness will harm all of us.

So let's leave the CRT chat behind us. It was just shorthand for the current politically-correct corporate culture war. And I'm sorry I let it in the door.

[Richard]

^ so is that the future of the assembly line worker in Detroit ?

What do you do?

I install the thingmagiggy that holds the brake fluid .

How is Primary bedroom different then Master bedroom? Words are words.

If Jack Aubrey is no longer master and commander of the seas,does his books and movies get burned?

[Dumpling]

The original use of the term in the description
of the bedrooms in the floor plan for the Sears
Glen Falls luxury kit home is:

"Master's Bedroom"

[including that apostrophe s] meaning
the Master of the House. This was published
in the mid 1920's. Women had just obtained
the right to vote in 1920. There were no
women who were Master of the House.
Even into the 1970's it was the case,
even more so for the upper classes,
that women would most often not work
outside of the home and furthermore
would not be in charge of the
household finances.

The current picture is that upper
income classes now mostly have
couples in which the woman
is every bit the high income
outside professional as well as
familiar with the household
finances. She may well have
credit cards in her own name.

Hence the change to "primary
bedroom".

[Richard]

Actually there was women that were masters of the house.

Was watching a video about barns and silos,German immigrant family came in the 1800s started a farm ,short of it all and 8 kids later the wife ran the farm after her husband died at age 45 ,into her 80s,before she turned it over to the kids.

Lots of war widows became the master of the house,even today talk to most men and their wife is the master of the house,they cannot even buy a bag of chips without their wife’s permission.

So all of the educated folk that earned their masters cannot apply for student loan reductions because their degree is no longer valid.

It’s a zero sum game.

[Detroit Stylin]

Do you? To know more check out what black people have to say about it.

Actually i know quite a bit about it and the way its been characterized as divisive and having a negative impact on society is patently false which is why predictably MOSTLY the right wing/conservative block is so heavily against it. Most of what it teaches is how the legacy of slavery and racism in this country still impacts Black folks and other POC to this day.

Everything from the legal system, to economics, and the school to prison pipeline and how law enforcement engages communities of color, as well as how it exposes the privilege of white folks. A lot of them don't want to really learn just how dirty their ancestors were, even though through no fault of their own in modern times how they have BENEFITED from that privilege.

But my question is why are so many people upset that people want to bring CRT into the curriculum, but completely silent on the fact that some schools districts in some states like Texas, have rewritten books that minimizes slavery and in some cases have even taken it out; eliminated teaching about the civil rights movement; or don't even teach about the atrocities that have taken place in this country like the Rosewood, Tulsa, Oklahoma and the overthrow of the democratically elected government of a city in North Carolina by white supremacists post civil war?

But we are upset at how some people will FEEL about what's historically ACCURATE? You may want to really read up on what CRT really teaches and not just listen to your conservative friends. While I don't listen to everything that comes out of the conversative/liberal echo chambers how can I deny that CRT needs to be taught when it STILL impacts POC every day?

[Satiricalivory]

Now get rid of the made up school ratings on these real estate websites. How the hell is that legal?

[Zacha341]

Not listening to 'conservative friends'. But if questioning CRT makes yah' conservative I guess they/ we'll have to be so ascribed! We're pretty thick skinned to even mount opposition against what is suppose to so good for us!

As I stated in post #11, talk to not just a few black people hardly right-winged about CRT. They're not all on board [a factor not anticipate by those pushing CRT]. As I detailed, I don't have a problem with many of the historical and current racial issues and facts CRT purports to address. But CRT's solutions are questionable. Creating more division beyond what it claims to solve.

Further, as I stated, check out what some black people say! Sure they may turn up on the conservative news outlets, but setting that aside [if possible] their concerns stand - withstanding any conservative affirmation. Can they not? Is their voice to be disallowed? Again? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs46FYD4ZuM&t=1093s.

AA [again hearty and hardly default right-winged] are NOT all on board. NOPE. That stance IS LEGITIMATE and at the SAME TIME can contain critique and challenge upon those who want to SILENCE or deny racism as you state. It is not an either/ or! Both are problematic. CRT indulges apposition as groups are forced even further apart from any real authentic resolution. Perhaps that's the end goal......?

Again, check out black people who've experienced the rough-edge of CRT [or whatever it may have been called]. The Gabrielle Clark case re. what her high school son experienced is a good starting point re. problems with CRT [from a non-white perspective]. Biracial Son Received Failing Grade In Class for Refusing to Confess His ‘White Dominance'.

...A lot of them don't want to really learn just how dirty their ancestors were, even though through no fault of their own in modern times how they have BENEFITED from that privilege.

But my question is why are so many people upset that people want to bring CRT into the curriculum, but completely silent on the fact that some schools districts in some states like Texas, have rewritten books that minimizes slavery and in some cases have even taken it out; eliminated teaching about the civil rights movement; or don't even teach about the atrocities that have taken place in this country like the Rosewood, Tulsa, Oklahoma and the overthrow of the democratically elected government of a city in North Carolina by white supremacists post civil war?

But we are upset at how some people will FEEL about what's historically ACCURATE? You may want to really read up on what CRT really teaches and not just listen to your conservative friends....