Political correctness - Farmington HS Sub Fired

[expatriate]

I grant that I am old, but I have never thought of this common expression as in any way a racial slur. If one is to interpret it that way, one must consider that a lot of white share croppers also picked cotton.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/farmington/2022/02/10/farmington-schools-remove-substitute-teacher-following-racist-language/6740617001/

[jcole]

I will admit I heard this phrase a million times as a kid, and didn't think twice about it but then I heard a lot of shit when I was a kid. Hearing it or reading it now, I do understand how it is considered racist. After all, whose hands picked cotton for the most part? Or shall I say, whose hands were forced to pick cotton for the most part?

[Henry Whalley]

Hearing it or reading it now, I do understand how it is considered racist.

Same here. I never thought about it before, but knowing that it's offensive or hurtful to blacks, I'll remove it from my vocabulary.

P.S. The substitute teacher may not have realized that the phrase was offensive. And it would be humane if the offended student let the teacher off the hook.

[EGrant]

I will admit I heard this phrase a million times as a kid, and didn't think twice about it but then I heard a lot of shit when I was a kid. Hearing it or reading it now, I do understand how it is considered racist. After all, whose hands picked cotton for the most part? Or shall I say, whose hands were forced to pick cotton for the most part?

This is the measured response we should all have.

[Dumpling]

I heard this phrase all the time when
I was growing up in the sixties and
seventies from my Dad who had been
an army brat [another somewhat
disparaging term] who was stationed
at various places throughout the south
during WWII. To be clear my grandfather
was in the army at the time.

The phrase is not at all intended
to be reverent. It has a sting like
rapping knuckles with a ruler.

It is possible though that the
substitute was raised by army
brats and used the phrase
without intending a racial
connotation.

This phrase shouldn't be used
and rulers shouldn't either.

But it can be seen that it probably
arose when children got on someone's
last nerve. This phrase almost has
reduplication

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduplication

with a staccato emphasis.

[Richard]

So is it PC correct not to patronize a Soul Food restaurant?

Sense it is based on the slave diet of chicken,greens,pork,boiled corn etc. which out of respect are also items that should also be avoided.

So it makes me wonder,when my mother told me to keep my cotton picking hands out of the raw cake mix,did she really view me as a little black boy and if an African American mother told her child to keep his cotton picking hands out of the raw cake mix,did she really view him as a little slave child?

Reminds me of a case recently in the UK where a 86 yo politician used the phrase *igger in the woodpile , and it boiled down to intent.

Every catch phrase and every word has been used for centuries,they all originated somewhere somehow how and can be individually interpreted,do we know trace down the origins of every word and scrub those which may offend somebody somewhere?

I think being called a cracker is offensive,but yet I am traumatized every time I go shopping because there are boxes of them in the shelf.

They removed Aunt Jemima from the pancake and syrup containers because they said it was racist,even after the family said she never felt that way and was proud of it.

Millions through decades saw her warm welcoming grandmother face on their syrup box,how many said I am not buying that because it represented oppression.

I think you could devoid the entire world of everything in it and somebody could still find something to be offended by.

You can drive around in a Jeep Cherokee or a Jeep Renegade but you cannot name a team Washington red skins because that is offensive.

The main crops slaves picked,cotton,rice,sugar cane,tabbaco.

So if you tell your loved one,come here and give me some sugar,are you really ordering them as a slave to come to you and fill your demands as a master?

Granted it could lead to whips and chains or even handcuffs - oops,sorry that’s 3 more words to scrub.

[313WX]

People's personal feelings or experience with the phrase aside, this substitute teacher I'm sure is old enough to have known better than to use the phrase in an era where society has become very PC, especially saying it to a black person.

[Richard]

People's personal feelings about the phrase aside, this substitute teacher I'm sure is old enough to have known better than to use the phrase in an era where society has become very PC, especially saying it to a black person.

Not for nothing but you posted “A black person”

I know a lot of “black” people,they are just as diverse in their thinking as everybody else,so to me it is racist in itself to group and categorize them into a single group as a separate race.

Brcause they are black it does not mean they have their special way of thinking outside of being beige or white.

Sometimes I wonder who exactly is this singular black spokesperson that represents everybody in the African American community as a singular mindset.

Like I posted,anybody can find offense in anything,it does not mean that automatically becomes offensive to the entire group.

I find rap offensive,so by default every white person finds rap offensive so let’s ban it - today preferably.

But what about the white people that like rap,or those who do not care one way or another,are their personal views or stance on rap now thrown out the window because I decided I do not like it.

Thats like saying the south is racist because they had slaves and the plantation owners were at fault and greedy.

But where was the market for those goods? The densely packed northern cities who willingly purchase those goods knowing full well that they were picked by slaves,so how were they any less complacent?

[One Shot]

Ridiculous plain and simple. Grow a spine people. This is the new game pick apart every word/sentence to look for an offense. Screw that.

[Lowell]

There is a lot of unconscious bias and prejudice that became embedded in language, used by adults who didn't know what they were saying, copied by kids, and so perpetuated, aided all along by lack of knowledge of history.

People grew up saying gyp, meaning to con someone, having no knowledge the word derived from Gypsy, which in turn was another ignorant word created when, again from lack of historical accuracy, people had incorrectly come to believe the Roma came from Egypt.

This event is a Jack Morris-level offense [recall his putting on an oriental accent to describe Japanese superstar baseball player Shohei Otani]. The teacher should have been offered the same opportunity he did to learn some cross-cultural sensitivity, not lose his job.

Learning, not punishment, is the only way were are going to move beyond the legacies inherited from our great national sins of slavery, the Native American holocaust, and other sins of of our ancestors.

[Scottathew]

The teacher should have been offered the same opportunity he did to learn some cross-cultural sensitivity, not lose his job.

Learning, not punishment, is the only way were are going to move beyond the legacies inherited from our great national sins of slavery, the Native American holocaust, and other sins of of our ancestors.

I agree with this perspective and the perspective of jcole.

There's a time to fire/cancel people. There's a time to educate, grow, and learn. From what I've read this was a growth opportunity.

It's sad that some people still try to say that the phrase, "cotton-picking" is OK. Just because a phrase is so much a part of our culture that it begins to lose its meaning doesn't mean that we shouldn't reexamine whether or not its usage is appropriate, fair, and sensitive.

Some people are being dragged, kicking and screaming, into this reality where we actually have to acknowledge how past and present racism affects our world. Firing the substitute for what could have been a growth opportunity only further divides those deeply rooted in the past and those of us who want to be fair, compassionate, and considerate.

[southen]

I know a lot of “black” people,they are just as diverse in their thinking as everybody else,so to me it is racist in itself to group and categorize them into a single group as a separate race.

Brcause they are black it does not mean they have their special way of thinking outside of being beige or white.

In other threads you described black people as being brainwashed by the Democratic party almost as if there was no diversity or intelligence within that specific group, an act mind you, that you just labeled as "racist". Weird.

The "special way of thinking" you reference is called perspective, and no, you can't actually have the perspective of a minority in this country. You can listen, you can try and understand, but despite what you think you know about the world you will never see it exactly through their eyes. Maybe instead of going through the routine of "old white guy knows best" you let marginalized groups tell you what they feel is racist. Just a thought.

[DeLemur]

I'm all for fixing our language when appropriate. Yes, still some of these sensitivities have gone too far.

But let's remember none of these situations are only about language they're about power dynamics. A substitute teacher is extremely expendable and a passionate student base isn't. Much easier to fire them and move on.

[swingline]

Another poorly reported and edited story from the Free Press. The story quoted the superintendent: "What we can't do is screen what's in the hearts and minds of people." "Let's just be clear: If anyone harbors those kind of racist sentiments, do not apply to Farmington Public Schools." But nothing in the story established the intent of the teacher. Yes, the phrase in question is offensive and white folks should be aware of it as such. But the Freep has an obligation to the community it reports about to describe the origins and history of the phrase and address the obvious issues of degree of offense that have been triggered. It did none of that and apparently did not question the superintendent about how he concluded that the teacher was so racist that he/she had to lose their job. Is it a unanimous belief in the black community that one who utters the phrase must be banished from their jobs? Did the offense warrant a student walkout and protest? At a minimum, interview a DEI professional and get some information and background. There's all kinds of deep to this issue and to this story that the Freep just ignored. The Freep's handling of this story gives license to too many black folks to conclude that most white folks are irredeemable racists. The thin reporting also enables too many white folks to jump to the conclusion that black folks are too sensitive to innocent language mistakes. Everybody gets to claim they're a victim and everybody loses. The Free Press needs to do better.

[Zacha341]

Some Muslims don't want their small or older children taught things not reflecting their particular religion and Islamic values either. They don't demure easily when accused of being .ists or .obes.

Push-back is not solely coming from some Christian communities. Or Florida.

...Because, of course, a few Christianists might not like it. Nobody is more overly sensitive than racist homophobes.

[Jimaz]

You forgot to add gender bathroom usage! That would be in the Constitution,...

Heh, gender-specific chamberpots comes to mind.

[Meddle]

Now hold on just a cotton-pickin' minute!

[Zacha341]

Hah! It's an old story as we [black people] continue to find ourselves handled and spoken for -- for our 'best' interests as it is popular now!

Sometimes it was easier to navigate the rough yet familiar waters of pure unvarnished racism, over the soft-gloved bigotry and condescension [we know what you need and what you need to learn/ know about] we sometimes now receive from our new 'friends' in high places. Sadly in the context from those power, etc. you still can still get the treatment: '...if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black." as stated in 2020 by then campaigning POTUS Biden.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/polit...ack/index.html

Biden was initially highly shocked by the push-back his interview comments garnered [apparently not understanding his audience]. His chagrin stood as but another stock example of an over-reach, inaccurate assessment of black America - black people as individuals, and the individual minds of black people. This is NOT not to say that we would have all voted for Trump. No. The bigger point is that we STILL have choice, QUESTIONS, concerns and critiques - not be silenced just because dems seek, or have power, and control.

This was the point that DJ Charlamagne tha God was trying state when he challenged Biden's broad-brush rebuff of black people as a group! This needs to end before we can have effective dialogue. For sure we are not a monolith in our thinking or values. Ask us how we think before making assumptions. A variety of opinions will come forth and not all will be to the far left [as has been so hastily assumed].

...The "special way of thinking" you reference is called perspective, and no, you can't actually have the perspective of a minority in this country. You can listen, you can try and understand, but despite what you think you know about the world you will never see it exactly through their eyes. Maybe instead of going through the routine of "old white guy knows best" you let marginalized groups tell you what they feel is racist. Just a thought.

[Zacha341]

I agree. Punishing will only lead to more resentment and people going under-ground with their racism and biases fully intact. Nothing changed.

Just more phony smiles and appearances of niceness - fellow feeling. That is far worse. I usually knew how to handle and resolve direct racism in my face.

Learning, not punishment, is the only way were are going to move beyond the legacies inherited from our great national sins of slavery, the Native American holocaust, and other sins of of our ancestors.

[Jimaz]

Here's a related story that {I didn't seek, but} found me today:

German dictionary changes definition of 'Jew' after outcry

The leading dictionary of standard German has changed its definition of Jew, or “Jude” in German, after a recent update caused an uproar in the country’s Jewish community — a move reflecting the sensitivities that persist eight decades after the Holocaust.

The Duden dictionary had recently added an explanation to its online edition saying that “occasionally, the term Jew is perceived as discriminatory because of the memory of the National Socialist use of language. In these cases, formulations such as Jewish people, Jewish fellow citizens or people of the Jewish faith are usually chosen.”

This explanation led to an outcry from leading Jewish groups and individuals who stressed that identifying themselves or being called Jews is not discriminatory, in contrast to what Duden's definition implied....

So I suppose attempting to be PC can sometimes actually be politically incorrect.

On the one hand you could use the sticks and stones argument but on the other you could say the sticks and stones argument sometimes excuses malicious intent.

It's a knot that humans will never untie because of our cursed obsession with words. It is the speaker's intention that really counts.

Do animals ever have these problems?

Respect.

[Bong-Man]

Some folks here would complain if they were hung with a new rope.



Meet the Robstown Cotton Pickers. Things must be different when you're from somewhere everyone had to pick.

[Dan Wesson]

Excellent thread. Articulate well thought out reply's so far.

Question

I was just wondering if that sub teacher was one of the non teacher folk recently allowed to fill the chair during these difficult days?

[CassTechGrad]

“White Privilege”, without a doubt the most divisive, racist, offensive, polarizing, hateful word used today. It implies that something can be known of a person’s behavior by just simply looking at the color shade of the skin. That word is used today as a weapon by bigots to attack people who are different then them. It was created as a cover for racist to hide behind so they do not have to “come out of the closet” and expose there’re true bigoted, intolerant, prejudiced nature and intent.

[Henry Whalley]

Heh, gender-specific chamberpots comes to mind.

Back in the 1960s, we all laughed when the professor teaching Intro to Philosophy said that manhole covers should now be called person-hole covers. But she was prophetic.

Speaking of which, 'Ghostbox Cowboy' is a film comedy about the decline of our system and the rise of the PRC. Its vision would be dystopian were it not so realistic.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7473036/

[southen]

“White Privilege”, without a doubt the most divisive, racist, offensive, polarizing, hateful word used today. It implies that something can be known of a person’s behavior by just simply looking at the color shade of the skin. That word is used today as a weapon by bigots to attack people who are different then them. It was created as a cover for racist to hide behind so they do not have to “come out of the closet” and expose there’re true bigoted, intolerant, prejudiced nature and intent.

Somebody say that to you to trigger you? It implies a lack of perspective and not having to know what it is like to be a marginalized group in this country. Your reaction is hilariously ridiculous.