Detroit to pay up to $6K per household to fix flood-prone basements

[Lowell]

Late last June, when nearly 6 inches of rain fell, more than 32,000 basements saw backed up rainwater or combined sewage. It was deemed a major disaster by Pres. Biden and disaster relief funds have been released to prevent future recurrences largely by installation of backwater valves and sump pumps for which the City will pay up to $6K per house.

To that end City officials announced the Basement Backup Protection Program on Monday. It's an up to $15 million plan, with a pilot phase funded by $2.4 million in federal COVID-19 pandemic relief dollars. Last year, the city of Detroit received more than $826 million in American Rescue Plan Act, or ARPA, dollars - the fifth largest amount among American cities. Of that, $400 million was to address budget shortfalls and the remaining $426 million was for community investments. Presumably these funds are from the latter.

Details of the program, how to obtain support, and neighborhood deployment plans are listed in this Free Press article.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

When do you suppose they are going to CTC ? [[Cut The Check)

[Jimaz]

Here's a dumb question.

Has any community ever constructed a "reverse water tower" system to mitigate flood damage?

During a flood event, flood water could be pumped up into the normally-empty tower then, after the flood ends, the water could be gradually released under control.

Whether or not it's economically feasible would depend on weighing the cost of construction and operation against the cost of the flood damage otherwise incurred.

This would operate like a controlled release from a dam, the main difference being the additional energy required to pump the flood water up to the tower. Some of that energy could be recovered by turbines powered by the water flowing down from the tower.

I should be asking this in some NetherlandsYES! forum.

[Ray1936]

Homes here in southern Nevada are all built on slabs; no basements. Caliche soil is like concrete, so no home builder even thinks about a basement.

On the other hand, rain is extremely scarce out here anyway.

[Dumpling]

I can speak on the case of the Warrendale, Detroit
area.

Last summer we had one rainfall that was seven
inches total in maybe three hours, aka a five
hundred year storm.
Our sewer pipe is designed to readily carry away
two inches of rainfall within a 24 hour period.
Rainfall in excess of that has caused flooding.
The amount of rainfall we received in 2021
did cause severe flooding. We have clay soil
which soaks up a lot of water, but with over an
inch of water per hour, most of it just runs off
into the sewer.

As the officials stated, the intensity of the rain
was a problem. In my opinion the rainfall was
exacerbated by particles in the upper atmosphere
coming from wildfires in the western half of
the United States. In other words, it was
likely caused by climate change. There
were parallel heavy rains in Germany and
China at around this time as well, so
comments on the rains in those areas
may well apply to Warrendale, Detroit.

As part of the DWSD to GLWA transfer in 2014
through 2016, monies were to be transferred to
the City of Detroit for water infrastructure
upgrades.

For decades the region's water and sewer rates
were relatively low but the infrastructure was not
being upgraded as it should have been.

Since there are now lawsuits in progress,
naming GLWA as defendant, concerning
flood damages from the 2021 flooding,
it is not known what the final outcome
will be. However, prior to the 2021 floods,
it was only envisioned to replace the aging
sewer system, probably with a similar
diameter of piping as the old pipes.

The replacement catch basins so far
have a smaller diameter near the top
than the old ones. It will be harder to
put full grown people in there. The
sewer workers of the future will be
robots or small children.

[Dumpling]

A 'reverse water tower' would be limited by
the undersized piping in the sewer system.

What we could envision is a sump pump for
each catch basin that pushes the inflow
back out into a rain garden.

The outcome of the lawsuits might be that
the sewer system will be separated and
a correctly sized system will convey rainwater
to the streams....

....or, a 'reverse water tower' if one is there.
It would be an energy storage.

If it happens, the most likely place for the
first one in this area is at the intersection
of the Southfield Freeway and the Rouge
River. There is the Hubbell-Southfield
CSO basin near there. During recent severe
wet weather events this section of the freeway
completely flooded on both sides and
remained impassable for days at a time.

MDOT did make some repairs to this
part of the freeway in the last several
months.

[Dumpling]

32,000 basements to be upgraded X
$6,000 per upgrade = $192 million.

Pilot phase [this part is okay]: $2.4 million.

It's okay to spend not so much initially
until the program is running smoothly.

BBPP remaining funds UP TO $15 million.

Meh. This amount takes care of the
truly indigent or the truly connected.
$15 million will cover 2,500 upgrades,
which is a lot, but it is only 8 percent
of what's needed.

[Jimaz]

The sewer workers of the future will be robots or small children.

Now there's a not-so-pretty picture. They will all be named "Norton."

[Meddle]

Why do I get the impression that a 'fix' that would normally cost $2, 3 or 4,000 will suddenly cost $6,000?

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Why do I get the impression that a 'fix' that would normally cost $2, 3 or 4,000 will suddenly cost $6,000?

Is the Pentagon in charge?

[Ray1936]

How many times I gotta tell you? We doan' have no rain. We doan' need no steenkin' rain! An we doan' got no steenkin basements!

[Dumpling]

??? What ???

Harry and Tonto - Wikipedia

[hybridy]

Here's a dumb question.

Has any community ever constructed a "reverse water tower" system to mitigate flood damage?

Yes, but due to lawsuits from Illinois. A massive Cryptosporidium outbreak didn't help things, but nasty Lake Michigan water was partially to blame.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e-sewer-system

https://www.mmsd.com/what-we-do/floo...ickinnic-river

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_M...iosis_outbreak

[Jimaz]

??? What ???

Harry and Tonto - Wikipedia

Art Carney also played Norton, a sewer worker, in The Honeymooners, possibly before your time. He was remarkably funny in that role, an equal to Jackie Gleeson.

[Jimaz]

Here's a dumb question.

Has any community ever constructed a "reverse water tower" system to mitigate flood damage?

Yes, but due to lawsuits from Illinois. A massive Cryptosporidium outbreak didn't help things, but nasty Lake Michigan water was partially to blame.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e-sewer-system

https://www.mmsd.com/what-we-do/floo...ickinnic-river

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_M...iosis_outbreak

Well, thanks for that, hybridy!

So essentially, Milwaukee put a "reverse water tower" underground. It's fortunate to have a three-dimensional solution for a two-dimensional problem.

The first step in solving a problem is knowing that a solution exists!

[Jimaz]

I might have posted this before.

The Giant Underground Tunnels Protecting Tokyo From Floods

If you believe the hype, then the Metropolitan Area Underground Discharge Channel stops Tokyo flooding. It doesn't. But it is one colossal part of a huge network of flood defences that protect a city that would otherwise be... well, very wet.

[DetroitSoldier]

This is good news. My East English Village basement has flooded 3 times since 2020 due to weather related issues. I am looking forward to participating in this program.

But I would also prefer that they fix the water main at the corner of Warren and Harvard that has been spewing a constant flow of water 24/7 since early December. There is enough water flowing that it does not even freeze in the 0 degree weather like the other water main breaks.

24/7 for 50+ days. Dozens of phone calls. Dozens of emails. Crickets. My daughter even named it "Cadieux Creek."

[Dumpling]

I'm sorry to hear that you have a severe water
main break. There is probably also low water
pressure in the surrounding area, and there may
be follow-on smaller water main breaks nearby.
In the intersection you probably have a giant
horizontal ice sculpture with two tracker ruts
running through it. Any abandoned car near
there will have become an immovable object.
Or, the ice floe may have been scooped to the
curb by a front end loader, leaving large
potholes in the street.

There are crews that will get to it. It is possible
that the street crews have been decimated by
the omicron variant but there would have been
some time lag before getting to the break even
if this were not the case.
There is an initial crew that comes and assesses
the situation and places signage. Very soon
there should come a day when several work
trucks appear and take out the broken piping
and fixtures. Filling a few jugs of water
with the low pressure water in advance
might be helpful. God bless!