Detroit's Infrastructure Wish List

**Lowell** · February-07-22, 09:15 AM

With the passage of the $1.2T federal infrastructure law, the City of Detroit has lined up a $2.5B wish list according to this Free Press article. The article calls it "Detroit's priority wish list" but it is not clear if this is the exact order of priority. For instance I would not think this I-375 conversion would top the list. Noticeably absent is mention of drainage repair that is at the heart of Eastside basement flooding.

Detroit's priority wish list
· $350 million to transform Interstate 375 into a boulevard.
· $100 million to clean up industrial land for redevelopments.
· $450 million to complete streetscaping initiatives along state trunk lines, including
· $88 million on Grand River Avenue, from Southfield Freeway to downtown, $100 million on city roads and $170 million on Gratiot Avenue from Eight Mile to downtown Detroit.
· $175 million to modernize electric infrastructure, which includes removing Public Lighting Department infrastructure, underground streetlight power lines.
· $25 million for expanding internet access.
· $100 million to remove old Public Lighting infrastructure impacting the city's power, and another $50 million to add fiber for broadband.
· $51 million in small business support.
· $400 million to replace lead service lines.
· $100 million to fund construction of the Joe Louis Greenway, a 27.5-mile pedestrian and cyclist trail.
· $105 million to fund home repairs, including roofs and sewer lines.
· $74.6 million in workforce development and building a talent pipeline.
· $13 million to increase GOAL line access for after-school programming.
· $75 million to reduce violence in the city and on freeways.
· $1.5 million to fund Detroit pre-K to ensure every 4-year-old has access to a full day of pre-K.
· $50 million to improve Belle Isle.
· $10 million to increase mental health services.

**401don** · February-07-22, 10:01 AM

Definitely a wish and not a needs list. All of the dangerous bridges in the country, regardless of location, should be the priority.

**JonWylie** · February-07-22, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

Definitely a wish and not a needs list. All of the dangerous bridges in the country, regardless of location, should be the priority.

Most bridges wouldn't fall under the City's expense list, as they are mostly highway/rail lines.

**401don** · February-07-22, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by JonWylie

Most bridges wouldn't fall under the City's expense list, as they are mostly highway/rail lines.

Obviously. I'm simply saying that every community in the country will get money thrown their way to spend on "wishes" and in 5 years half the bridges and other vital infrastructure will still be crumbling. This is why people hate the way gov't spends money.

**JBMcB** · February-07-22, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

This is why people hate the way gov't spends money.

*This*

A balance of repair and improvement is fine when infrastructure has been properly maintained. It hasn't. Roads and bridges are falling apart.

A few weeks ago a bridge collapsed in Pittsburgh. It would have cost a couple of millions of dollars to fix. Thing is, Pittsburg spends about $6 million a year on maintenance, but spends $8 million a year on improvements, like adding bike lanes, improving walkability, and beautification projects. All of those are important expenditures, but not at the cost of fixing stuff that is broken.

All infrastructure monies should be spent on things that are broken *now* The only exceptions would be improving things that are broken, not ripping out already working infrastructure to replace it with better infrastructure.

**JonWylie** · February-07-22, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

*This*

A balance of repair and improvement is fine when infrastructure has been properly maintained. It hasn't. Roads and bridges are falling apart.

A few weeks ago a bridge collapsed in Pittsburgh. It would have cost a couple of millions of dollars to fix. Thing is, Pittsburg spends about $6 million a year on maintenance, but spends $8 million a year on improvements, like adding bike lanes, improving walkability, and beautification projects. All of those are important expenditures, but not at the cost of fixing stuff that is broken.

All infrastructure monies should be spent on things that are broken *now* The only exceptions would be improving things that are broken, not ripping out already working infrastructure to replace it with better infrastructure.

Bike lanes and beautification projects are not prohibiting the upkeep of bridges and roads. The continued expansion and widening of roads with inadequate population and tax revenue increases are creating problems with the amount of infrastructure the state and federal government needs to account for. Bike lanes and small changes to local roads are million dollar projects by cities and counties, while these large road and bridge projects are state and federally funded.

Maybe we should put a freeze on building new roads and expanding highways before we can account for the ones we already have built. Especially in a state like Michigan which hasn't seen population growth in over a decade, yet we somehow need more and more roads in far flung suburbs.

The PDOT had just received funding from the Biden Infrastructure Bill for the bridge that collapsed.

**LeightonGeo** · February-07-22, 12:36 PM

"$75m to reduce violence." Sounds like fluff. How would that even be spent? On what? More cops isn't always the answer. Violence is a generational problem with deep roots in a lot of directions.

I say scratch that line and roll the entire amount into the measly $10m listed for mental health services.

**JBMcB** · February-07-22, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by JonWylie

Bike lanes and small changes to local roads are million dollar projects by cities and counties, while these large road and bridge projects are state and federally funded.

And, instead of funding two $1 million dollar road improvement projects, Pittsburgh could have prevented a bridge from collapsing. Unless your money supply is infinite, you need to prioritize projects.

Maybe we should put a freeze on building new roads and expanding highways before we can account for the ones we already have built.

Absolutely. Fixing existing things that are broken should take priority. Not improving existing things or building new things. That doesn't mean that if you are rebuilding a broken road you can't add bike lanes or better pedestrian throughways, but adding that stuff to existing, perfectly adequate infrastructure should go on the backburner until we get to the point that sewers aren't imploding and bridges aren't collapsing.

**Richard** · February-07-22, 01:33 PM

LANSING — The transition of Detroit's historic Belle Isle to a state park began Tuesday after the Michigan Emergency Loan Board approved a 30-year lease with the city.
The state has promised to make up to $20 million in improvements to the park over the next three years, while saving the city — which is seeking bankruptcy protection — $4 million to $6 million a year in operating costs. An entrance fee for motorists begins next year.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-park/3514141/

So if the city leased the island to the state,as a state park in order to save money - what is the 50 million for?

Unless the state said,okay we are going to give you these funds but you have to kick the 50 billion into the park?

The funding was not allotted to Detroit,it was allocated to the state who then split it up.

Giving up the island did not save the city 4 to 6 million in operating costs,because now they are paying the 50 million,so they gave up control of the park,needlessly,and now are kicking in 50 million to boot,gotta love government math.

**Gistok** · February-07-22, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Giving up the island did not save the city 4 to 6 million in operating costs,because now they are paying the 50 million,so they gave up control of the park,needlessly,and now are kicking in 50 million to boot,gotta love government math.

Having never been to Detroit, and therefore never set foot on Belle Isle before or after the state takeover, you sure are making a lot of assumptions about the island being run by the state based on little more than a list... A LIST....

When there is something more substantive about what exactly the city's SPECIFIC goals are... we'll get back to you on your lanai somewhere in Florida...

**401don** · February-07-22, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-park/3514141/

Not sure why they think most of the country would care about this story. I realize Gannett owns the freep and USA Today but are they that hard up for content?

**Richard** · February-07-22, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Having never been to Detroit, and therefore never set foot on Belle Isle before or after the state takeover, you sure are making a lot of assumptions about the island being run by the state based on little more than a list... A LIST....

When there is something more substantive about what exactly the city's SPECIFIC goals are... we'll get back to you on your lanai somewhere in Florida...

Yea that would be you once again babbling on about what you think you know verses what you actually know.

The thread was posted for discussion and not posted for your singular pleasure,unless you have a frog in your pocket.I have yet to see the forum nominate you as everybody’s spokesperson,stick with legos.

Besides it has been freezing in the 60s the last few days,so posting from my lanai,if I had one,would be the last place.

**Richard** · February-07-22, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

Not sure why they think most of the country would care about this story. I realize Gannett owns the freep and USA Today but are they that hard up for content?

Well if you had looked at the date and understood that the reason for posting the link was to refresh peoples memory as to the deal that was struck.

As for most of the country ? The infrastructure package is being paid for by all of the country,we are not like Canada where free money falls from the trees.

It kinda defeats the purpose of giving up city assets in order to save money while still having to fund it in excess of what would have been spent in the first place had it been retained.

30 years of lost opportunity.

Kinda like funding a bridge based on anticipated traffic that will never exist.

It is infrastructure funding,it can only be used towards infrastructure,so a lot of the wish list,is that,most of it does not qualify.

Unless they are combining the COVID funds with the infrastructure funds,which are two different things and in total represent more then what is actually specified,some would refer that presentation as,a slight of hand.

What they actually did was take the $250 billion in COVID relief and moved it over to the infrastructure package.

So the COVID losses wishlist gets thrown in the trash like it never existed and just renamed a infrastructure wish list.

Even that is not a guarantee because they only actually have $500 billion,they are trying to get to the 1.5 trillion by taxing cripto,clawing back the scammed COVID funds and uncollected tax revenue.

But mass transit is absent from this wish list,but not from the feds intentions.

It is just a discussion

If the island is considered a state park,why is the city on the hook for the 50 million,which can only be used in infrastructure or climate change related?

You can run new roads,lights,caulking windows of existing buildings,or clean up contamination if it exists,the states commitment over the 30 year term was 20 million and the yearly upkeep and the city became nothing more then the leaseholder,putting $50 million into it now is a zero sum game because it is not the cities requirement.

It would be different if it could be used to improve it with more revenue generating options,or fixing up existing venues,but as a state park the city would not be able to reap the investment rewards as much as they would if they invested it in the actual city.

When you are looking at federal funding stuff it is usually better to fix the stuff that will decrease the tax burden on the local taxpayer,stuff that you will not have to sell bonds for.

For instance,replacing water mains and pipes,it creates up to a 30% reduction to the cost of the taxpayer based on future maintenance costs.

If used for the big ticket items,you do not have to sell bonds to pay for them or pay the interest for decades,the goal being to drive the current tax rate down for the residents.

**401don** · February-07-22, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Well if you had looked at the date and understood that the reason for posting the link was to refresh peoples memory as to the deal that was struck.

Sorry I should have read the tiny print and realized you would post a link from 9 years ago without mentioning it. Yeah, Canada does have money to burn. We are not nearly as careful with it as the United States. Guess that's why our debt to gdp is less than half of the U.S.

**Honky Tonk** · February-07-22, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

Guess that's why our debt to gdp is less than half of the U.S.

Yes, but that's in CANADIAN dollars...

**southen** · February-07-22, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

LANSING — The transition of Detroit's historic Belle Isle to a state park began Tuesday after the Michigan Emergency Loan Board approved a 30-year lease with the city.
The state has promised to make up to $20 million in improvements to the park over the next three years, while saving the city — which is seeking bankruptcy protection — $4 million to $6 million a year in operating costs. An entrance fee for motorists begins next year.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-park/3514141/

So if the city leased the island to the state,as a state park in order to save money - what is the 50 million for?

Unless the state said,okay we are going to give you these funds but you have to kick the 50 billion into the park?

The funding was not allotted to Detroit,it was allocated to the state who then split it up.

Giving up the island did not save the city 4 to 6 million in operating costs,because now they are paying the 50 million,so they gave up control of the park,needlessly,and now are kicking in 50 million to boot,gotta love government math.

There have been many improvements to Belle Isle from state oversight but there is a great deal more needed for the island, especially regarding infrastructure. I have no doubt a great deal of that money would go to measures to help prevent or mitigate the flooding that has happened on the island in recent years. There is also a need to update the beach area and maybe finally install the splash pad they announced a few years ago. The Nancy Brown Peace Carillon is also in dire need of repairs as is the Remick Band Shell. Those are two expensive projects that may make more sense now given the investment in the Oudolf designed garden at the foot of both of those monuments and the renewed interest in that area. These are all things that probably need an influx of cash versus what the state is willing to spend at the moment. Their focus has been updating roads, adding sidewalks and bike paths and recently removing little used roads and replanting them with trees.

If you aren't in the park frequently or paying attention to what has been announced for it you may not understand where that money would go or why the island needs the investment regardless of whether or not the state is running things.

**RO_Resident** · February-07-22, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

Definitely a wish and not a needs list. All of the dangerous bridges in the country, regardless of location, should be the priority.

The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act is making $27.5 billion available over 5 years to improve bridges. Roughly $563.1 million will be coming to Michigan over that period. The state estimates that 129 local bridges and 24 MDOT bridges will be fixed over that period.
https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9...5602--,00.html

**Gistok** · February-08-22, 01:51 AM

Lowell... remember when the talk [not sure if it was at the local or state level], but the discussion was that it would be cheaper to fill in I-375 than to fix it. Well I don't know about that. At $350 million, sounds like fixing bridges and roadways for 1 mile would be a hell of a lot cheaper than that sum. Also, from those 6 different options, it didn't look like there would be that much additional development space freed up.

And like you said... there are some serious sewer infrastructure that needs fixing in the city that is more important.

And the $100 million for the Joe Louis Greenway? Wow... a lot of money for walkers runners and cyclists. There are so many more blight related issues in the city than need help, rather than this dreamscape.

https://detroitgreenways.org/project...ouis-greenway/

**401don** · February-08-22, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by RO_Resident

The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act is making $27.5 billion available over 5 years to improve bridges. Roughly $563.1 million will be coming to Michigan over that period. The state estimates that 129 local bridges and 24 MDOT bridges will be fixed over that period.
https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9...5602--,00.html

That article states there is funding in the bill to repair 15,000 bridges nationwide. Meanwhile this article states 45,000 bridges nationwide are in poor condition.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...se/6377722001/

**Lowell** · February-08-22, 08:17 AM

To answer my own question above about the absence of an item regarding correction drainage issues, I'm uncertain as to where drainage authority lies. Now that I think of it, it seems likely that is a county responsibility and perhaps is on Wayne County's wish list [something I'd like to see reported along with other counties.]

Also, I think there is a lot of "ask big and hope" on that list, like in normal bartering.

And I see today where Detroit has disaster relief funds and announced a plan for fixing flood prone basements and have started a thread on how that works and how affected homes can obtain relief.

**JonWylie** · February-08-22, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Lowell... remember when the talk [not sure if it was at the local or state level], but the discussion was that it would be cheaper to fill in I-375 than to fix it. Well I don't know about that. At $350 million, sounds like fixing bridges and roadways for 1 mile would be a hell of a lot cheaper than that sum. Also, from those 6 different options, it didn't look like there would be that much additional development space freed up.

And like you said... there are some serious sewer infrastructure that needs fixing in the city that is more important.

And the $100 million for the Joe Louis Greenway? Wow... a lot of money for walkers runners and cyclists. There are so many more blight related issues in the city than need help, rather than this dreamscape.

https://detroitgreenways.org/project...ouis-greenway/

You're only looking at one time costs though. The goal would be to reduce the overall maintenance and reconstruction cost. Replacing the bridges as is would be cheaper for one time cost, but removing 5-6 bridges from the list that need maintenance over the long term will decrease the overall cost. Not to mention the social and economic benefits of removing the highway.

**Wheels** · February-08-22, 09:59 AM

Anyone taking bets yet witch politicians fill their pockets first and who will be the first to fall for corruption?

**JonWylie** · February-08-22, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Wheels

Anyone taking bets yet witch politicians fill their pockets first and who will be the first to fall for corruption?

Boooo, come up with some new material

**Richard** · February-08-22, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by southen

There have been many improvements to Belle Isle from state oversight but there is a great deal more needed for the island, especially regarding infrastructure. I have no doubt a great deal of that money would go to measures to help prevent or mitigate the flooding that has happened on the island in recent years. There is also a need to update the beach area and maybe finally install the splash pad they announced a few years ago. The Nancy Brown Peace Carillon is also in dire need of repairs as is the Remick Band Shell. Those are two expensive projects that may make more sense now given the investment in the Oudolf designed garden at the foot of both of those monuments and the renewed interest in that area. These are all things that probably need an influx of cash versus what the state is willing to spend at the moment. Their focus has been updating roads, adding sidewalks and bike paths and recently removing little used roads and replanting them with trees.

If you aren't in the park frequently or paying attention to what has been announced for it you may not understand where that money would go or why the island needs the investment regardless of whether or not the state is running things.

I understand what you are saying and do not disagree with your intent,but,federal funding comes with restrictions,they have to be used for their intent.

None of the buildings on the island are considered infrastructure,the funds can be used to prepare existing buildings for climate change,more insulation,widow caulking etc. infrastructure is,power,water,streets,now Internet is considered infrastructure,so basically the core services needed to operate a city.

The wish list is confusing because it incorporated the wish list from the expected grant from the COVID relief where the funds could have been used for that purpose,but by incorporating those funds into a infrastructure package,it is now limited to what they can be used for.

It would have been nicer if the city was able to receive the COVID funds in a timely manner in addition to the infrastructure grant,but it is what it is at this point and has changed from a wish list to prioritizing projects that will drive down the taxpayers obligations which in turn gives people more money to spend in local shops and frees up infrastructure costs from the general fund,which then can be used to fix up the buildings on the island.

I never agreed with the city giving up the park based in that moment in time,it was an asset,as we see now and with the books in order the city could have well afforded to retain it and it would have been easy enough to pull a bond in order to fix everything at once,but that is water under the bridge and it will be 30 years before the city gets that chance again.

The problem with wish lists is sometimes with those lump sums,cities do things that will actually increase the tax demand because they add something more that requires a constant maintenance fee,instead of fixing dire projects where the savings from those repairs actually pays for other improvements without increasing demand on the taxpayers.

The city did receive some COVID funds and even though they could have been used to do some of these projects,they were used to replenish the general budget,which put the city on solid ground and they were able to sell bonds while paying some of the cheapest rates in the country,that was a good move because it saved the taxpayers millions in interest payments,now and 25 years into the future.

It may seem rough now but the city is actually on more solid ground financially then a majority of the cities that you yearn to be,they are where you were 8 years ago,1 step away from insolvency.

**kuuma** · February-08-22, 12:03 PM

Can we please allocate even like $5 for snow removal in this town? I made the mistake of biking downtown yesterday, and by biking i mean walking my bicycle through the unplowed streets and sidewalks filled with LAST WEEK's snow, passing rows of snowed-in cars parked behind barricades of slush.

It's unbelievable to me that we're talking about EV-charging roadways when we treat our pavement like absolute garbage.

Love to see I-375 top the list, but with $2.5B coming through, if we're not covering our most rudimentary infrastructure maintenance needs, [[which can't take more than a tiny fraction of that budget), we're still moving backwards.