Detroit Amtrak looks to add train route to Toronto

[Jimaz]

Detroit Amtrak looks to add train route to Toronto

People may soon be able to take the train from Detroit to Toronto.

Amtrak is showing its support for the merging of the Canadian Pacific Railway and the Kansas City Southern Railway, which will create a line from Detroit to Toronto.

Passenger service would be provided between Michigan and Ontario, via the Detroit River Tunnel, to Winsor and Toronto, with a connection to VIA Rail Canada.

Once the U.S. government's Surface Transportation Board gives their approval on the merging of Canadian Pacific and Kansas City Southern Railways, the companies will begin the process of integrating their operations.

There's no timeline of when service from Detroit to Toronto may begin, although it's likely to happen within the next few months.

I hear Biden likes trains. Did he have anything to do with this?

[EGrant]

Very cool. I'd love to take the train for a short vacation to Toronto.

[GPCharles]

Note - KCS is a freight line, although it appears the CP purchased KCS rather than a true merger.

[GPCharles]

You have been able to take CN Rail out of Windsor to Toronto for many years right into Union Station in downtown Toronto, across the street from the Fairmont Royal York Hotel.

[Honky Tonk]

I hear Biden likes trains.

Just the electric kind.

[401don]

You have been able to take CN Rail out of Windsor to Toronto for many years right into Union Station in downtown Toronto, across the street from the Fairmont Royal York Hotel.

Are you going to simply switch to Via in Windsor? If there was actually demand for this, the tunnel bus could simply run a shuttle between the Detroit and Windsor stations.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Detroit Amtrak looks to add train route to Toronto

I hear Biden likes trains. Did he have anything to do with this?

Indeed he does love trains. Senator Biden was well known for taking the train back to Wilmington daily to be with his family. He did that for many years; didn’t live in DC.

[JonWylie]

Are you going to simply switch to Via in Windsor? If there was actually demand for this, the tunnel bus could simply run a shuttle between the Detroit and Windsor stations.

I think people from the Detroit area will take it to Toronto, but I definitely think the larger play is Chicago to Toronto, Detroit just happens to be in the middle. So people from Chicago wouldn't want to take the train to Detroit, get off, get on a bus, ride it over to Windsor, and then get on another train.

[Canadian Visitor]

Are you going to simply switch to Via in Windsor? If there was actually demand for this, the tunnel bus could simply run a shuttle between the Detroit and Windsor stations.

Its my understanding that this service will be an extension of one of the Chicago - Detroit runs; so a shuttle bus that takes people from a train probably isn't the right move here.

Quite correct to note, if this service were originating in Detroit, that it would make more sense to either shuttle people over, OR just have VIA start one of its Windsor-Toronto runs on the Detroit side.

[Richard]

I think people from the Detroit area will take it to Toronto, but I definitely think the larger play is Chicago to Toronto, Detroit just happens to be in the middle. So people from Chicago wouldn't want to take the train to Detroit, get off, get on a bus, ride it over to Windsor, and then get on another train.

The merger is intentionally bypassing Chicago with Kansas City as a hub,the merger was to create the first Mexico- US- Canada line and their shareholder list makes Warren Buffet look broke,lots of major players backing it.

Amtrak leases existing rails,this just looks like they can take advantage of a small portion of this run in order to establish the Detroit to Toronto leg,but freight still takes priority,so if Canada kicks up a lot of freight to Mexico and the line becomes busy it may become a slow route for Amtrak.

They are still working on the dedicated high speed rails,but no updates sense Covid hit.

[Burnsie]

LMAO at how WWJ seems to have conflated pending STB approval of the merger with a startup time for a Detroit-Toronto train:

"There's no timeline of when service from Detroit to Toronto may begin, although it's likely to happen within the next few months."

A passenger train through the Detroit River tunnel is only an ASPIRATIONAL VISION, with absolutely no firm commitment or funding specifics given yet from Amtrak, CP, MDOT, VIA or anyone else. Everyone needs to chill out on this.

[Richard]

^ the biggest fly in that ointment is the approval of the merger,which is doubtful,a foreign entity in control of what would be a major part of US infrastructure when it comes to rail,while dominating an entire N to S line which would eliminate future competition.

The past history has been not to allow foreign entities to have control over US critical infrastructure.

Some of their major shareholders are even outside of Canada,London ,Singapore etc. who could leverage control.

The other part of that is,with the cancellation of the keystone pipeline,it will give Canada a direct route via rail to move tar sands oil to the refineries in the south,even all the way into Mexico to be refined and cutting out a few thousand nautical miles for the export to the foreign markets.

That is why the backers signed on with billions,they would not have done that with a regular rail line,there is not that much profit in freight.

It would be the keystone pipeline on wheels,the interesting part would be in watching if the current administration,who stopped the pipeline because of dirty oil looks the other way on this,if the merger is approved it will show more of a slight of hand verses a real commitment.

Some of the biggest names in pension funds and investment vehicles in the world have jumped on this train,they would have never taken that risk if they did not have some kind of insurance that was given behind closed doors that it would move forward.

If it does not move forward,there will be a lot of pension funds losing billions.

Big money is betting on this will move forward and they are betting on moving oil to market over any climate change narrative,with the current administration,they look good in stopping that nasty oil pipeline without actually stopping the flow of oil,win win ,until a train crash and you have a disaster on your hands,but we can deal with that if and when it happens.

That is probably why they are diverting away from Chicago,they do not want that to happen near a major city.

Taking all of that into account,I am leaning towards the probability of a Detroit to Toronto run being high,if it does happen,people need to be aware that it will come with a risk factor.

It will take a year for the surface transportation board to make a decision,but the last time they approved a rail merger was in 1990 and that revolved around rail within the states and not one with international involvement.

[Henry Whalley]

Smells too much like infrastructure to me

[Richard]

On the surface it is as ground breaking as the Lincoln highway was,but if the real intention is to move oil,the goal would be to avoid any major populated areas,but that is what the board will determine,who does it benefit and how.

They have been placing high speed rail up the east coast of Florida,Virgin,if they ran that all the way up north while connecting all the major cities that would truly be infrastructure to support.

Amtrak’s NE corridor is their most profitable if not their only profitable route,by their own estimates it would cost them over 500 million per mile to covert to high speed.

California is spending over $80 million per mile on theirs.

We would not need all of these airplanes if we could move people fast and efficiently through rail,we can put a man in space for lunch,but we cannot figure out how to economically put rails on the ground that could move millions cheaper then it would cost for them to own a car in the first place.

Each city needs that connection that gives people the last mile or a way to get home after they disembark from the high speed aspect.

In Michigan if you concentrate on finishing the high speed rail that could connect to the other states,with branch off legs like the Detroit to Toronto run you are kinda putting the pieces together for a functional mass transit line country wide,it becomes a matter of connecting the dots.

But when it comes to moving the masses efficiently we seem to be more focused on the car instead of giving people a reason not to even have to own one in the first place.

Cities that have mass transit in place,people live a lifetime without even ever owning a car.

I kinda think if we are going to be spending trillions on infrastructure we should be doing it in a way that impacts the most in the most efficient manor,that is by rail.

I think the biggest problem when it comes to mass transit is because the support for it becomes a local issue and outside of who is put in place in Washington is subject to the whims of the administration they serve under.

There are individual pro transit groups in each city but they are not connected on a national level that would create a bigger impact on the national level,if you really think about it a rail line in Detroit should be viewed no different then a rail line in California because everybody is looking for the same results on a national level and it all ties together.

I am thinking if we built a city in the desert,then threatened to burn it to the ground unless people really got serious about what we all know we need to do,but cannot seem to get it organized,gets done.

I am not saying we need to nationalize rail,because in the UK they had nationalized rail and all it took to destroy decades of building it up was one person looking at cost cutting measures.

More along the lines of a nationalize voice that would give those who have a smaller one locally,more of one,when it comes to support.

We are at a disadvantage because everything else in this country that gets done happens because of lobbyists and super pacs of support,but if organized we do have the one thing that money cannot buy,the voice of the people demanding results.

[Burnsie]

^ the biggest fly in that ointment is the approval of the merger,which is doubtful,a foreign entity in control of what would be a major part of US infrastructure when it comes to rail...

...the last time they approved a rail merger was in 1990 and that revolved around rail within the states and not one with international involvement.

Huh? The railroad mega-mergers of UP + SP, BN + Santa Fe occurred in 1996 and 1995, and the split up of Conrail to NS and CSX happened in 1999. In May 1999 the Surface Transportation Board approved Montreal-based Canadian National Railway Co.'s $2.4 billion purchase of the Illinois Central RR, a system that extended from Chicago to New Orleans.

[jcole]

Have been able to catch the CN in Sarnia forever and go to Toronto. I did it for my senior trip about a hundred years ago. There is a horrible delay in London, but other than that, it's a nice trip

[oladub]

Have been able to catch the CN in Sarnia forever and go to Toronto. I did it for my senior trip about a hundred years ago. There is a horrible delay in London, but other than that, it's a nice trip

My hundreds of years ago trip was a CN train ride from Windsor to Toronto with a connection to North Bay in December for my grandmother's funeral. Both routes employed steam engines. The coaches to and from Toronto were modern but the North Bay train had the small narrow windows like museum trains, it's heating system kept the coach at about 90 degrees while it was zero outside, and some drunk guys were singing in French all night.

[Richard]

Huh? The railroad mega-mergers of UP + SP, BN + Santa Fe occurred in 1996 and 1995, and the split up of Conrail to NS and CSX happened in 1999. In May 1999 the Surface Transportation Board approved Montreal-based Canadian National Railway Co.'s $2.4 billion purchase of the Illinois Central RR, a system that extended from Chicago to New Orleans.

If approved, the merger would create the only railroad linking Canada, Mexico and the United States. It would be the first major railroad merger since the 1990s.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...d5q-story.html


A 2.4 billion merger is chump change when compared to a 30 billion merger,which is considered major.

A complete route that connects 3 countries could also be considered major.

Sorry I forgot the word “major” in my post.