Car Museum

[stasu1213]

Would a car museum be a good destination addition to downtown Detroit? The museum could have classic cars from the big 3 as well as companies such as Desoto, Studebaker as well as foreign cars such as Toyota Honda, Mini Coopers, Mercedes, BMW etc.

[401don]

The key word is "destination" addition. It would have to be massively large and expensive to actually draw visitors beyond those who might visit while already downtown. We already have the Henry Ford for antique vehicles and the Dream Cruise to see muscle car area, etc. There are also a lot of specialty car museums throughout the country such as the Corvette Museum, etc. Also keep in mind young people have much less interest in cars today than baby boomers. Maybe some day they will want a crossover/suv museum of today's vehicles. It would be smaller, since every vehicle looks the same.

[jiminnm]

Michigan already has a first class car museum, the Gilmore Car Museum, on 90 acres in Hickory Corners just NE of Kalamazoo [[or NW of Battle Creek). Last I remember, they have more than 300 cars and motorcycles.

https://gilmorecarmuseum.org/

[Lowell]

I dunno. Flint's Auto World fiasco does not offer much encouragement. It would also be in competition against not-that-faraway Henry Ford Museum's collection, Stahl's in Chesterfield Township or even the budding collection at the Piquette Ave. Plant. Maybe a world class aquarium or an architectural museum, or something else that doesn't exist, might be in order.

[Kathleen]

Agreed. And in addition to the already mentioned car museums, there is the National Automotive Hall of Fame Museum in Dearborn [[adjacent to The Henry Ford), the Ypsilanti Automotive Heritage Museum, the R.E. Olds Transportation Museum, the Buick Gallery and Research Center in Flint, among others. Plus there are a myriad of auto-related historic sites around Southeast Michigan and within the state. The MotorCities National Heritage Area promotes our automotive history through programs, tours, and online resources to create your own tour of the area. So Detroit is not lacking when it comes to automotive historic sites!

[DeLemur]

I like the idea. But it would have to have a focus. Perhaps, electric vehicles only? Give people a sense of what technologies are currently available and it would be focused on the future.

[401don]

I like the idea. But it would have to have a focus. Perhaps, electric vehicles only? Give people a sense of what technologies are currently available and it would be focused on the future.

I think the auto show was really intending to promote electric and new technologies with demo areas outdoors, etc. but sadly they missed the boat two years now due to the pandemic and it looks like electric is already quickly going mainstream. Car museums are all about design and I don't think a museum based on technology would work - unless you have 200 years of it like the Henry Ford.

[Wheels]

I like the idea. But it would have to have a focus. Perhaps, electric vehicles only? Give people a sense of what technologies are currently available and it would be focused on the future.

What do you call a museum of the future?

[401don]

What do you call a museum of the future?

A world's fair.

[stasu1213]

The only thing we have in Detroit is the Fird Piquette museum. Everything else is in the suburbs. Have one spot, it could even be in an inflated dome structure, where all brand of historic cars especially the 40s through 60s Era in the same space. The cars could be rotated each month with different models

[401don]

The only thing we have in Detroit is the Fird Piquette museum. Everything else is in the suburbs. Have one spot, it could even be in an inflated dome structure, where all brand of historic cars especially the 40s through 60s Era in the same space. The cars could be rotated each month with different models

You want to showcase the motor city's vehicle history by sticking them in a bubble downtown? Aside from the terrible impression, it's not realistic. These vehicles have to be stored in exact temperature/humidity conditions and rotating in and out of storage would cost a bundle.

[southen]

In the very earliest renderings of the Hudson's site it looked as though Gilbert was going to put some sort of design and automotive museum on the site as part of a cultural campus. Obviously that didn't happen and the programming changed but I wouldn't be surprised if he's still thinking along those lines somewhere downtown. Gratiot or the lots along the riverfront that GM owns would both be logical spots for that.

[softailrider]

I like the idea. But it would have to have a focus. Perhaps, electric vehicles only? Give people a sense of what technologies are currently available and it would be focused on the future.

An electric vehicle only automobile museum? That Chevrolet Volt section would be positively soul stirring.

[Danny]

We already have car museums. Check out the Ford Piquette Plant and the Henry Ford Museum.

[stasu1213]

The Ford Piquette museum only have antique Fords.

[401don]

In the very earliest renderings of the Hudson's site it looked as though Gilbert was going to put some sort of design and automotive museum on the site as part of a cultural campus. Obviously that didn't happen and the programming changed but I wouldn't be surprised if he's still thinking along those lines somewhere downtown. Gratiot or the lots along the riverfront that GM owns would both be logical spots for that.

Pretty sure those were simply renderings of event space, similar to how MGM hosted exotic cars during the auto show.

[Packman41]

In a word, No. We do not need any more car museums in the Detroit area or Michigan.

First, we have enough already. And second, the business model is not sustainable.

Look at what we already have. What marque is missing or under-represented??

1. The Gilmore Museum
2. Classic Car Club – partner in Gilmore
3. Franklin Automobile – partner in Gilmore
4. Cadillac/LaSalle – partner in Gilmore
5. Ford Model A – partner in Gilmore
6. Lincoln Motor Car – partner in Gilmore
7. Pierce Arrow Club – partner in Gilmore
8. Horseless Carriage Club – partner in Gilmore
9. The Henry Ford
10. Ford Piquette Plant
11. Stahls Automotive Foundation
12. Packard Proving Grounds
13. Wills Sainte Claire Auto Museum
14. Automotive Hall of Fame
15. RE Olds Museum
16. GM Historic Archives
17. Ypsilanti [[Hudson) Auto Museum
18. Michigan Firehouse Museum
19. Sloan [[Buick) Museum
20. Pontiac / Oakland Car Museum
21. Roush Auto Collection

Sustainability – there has never been an auto museum to survive from entry fees alone. Most museums charge in the $8 to $12 dollar range and have about 15,000 paid guests a year. At $150,000 a year that does not pay for curator and staff salaries, let alone utilities, maintenance of the building and car collection, insurance, and general operating costs. This is all assuming someone bought the land and constructed a building for FREE.

All museums rely on either a “sugar daddy” or some other source of income to keep the doors open. Supplementary income sources include fundraisers, donors, legacy gifts, grants and renting the property as an event venue.

Do a search of the financial filings of the IRS 990 report forms for non-profit auto museums and see the long list of operating costs. Don’t be surprised at how many museums are losing money.

Again, who is not already in the area? And who has a sustainable business plan?

[Don K]

I dunno. Flint's Auto World fiasco does not offer much encouragement. It would also be in competition against not-that-faraway Henry Ford Museum's collection, Stahl's in Chesterfield Township or even the budding collection at the Piquette Ave. Plant. Maybe a world class aquarium or an architectural museum, or something else that doesn't exist, might be in order.

Actually, an Aquarium of the Great Lakes sounds like a good idea, focusing on the fauna of our very own local waters. Maybe a transition section on the changes in habitat as one goes from the Great Lakes, down the St Lawrence, to the Atlantic. Hell, start in the lakes of the UP, northern LP, and Oakland County, and show how the habitats of these very different places harbor unique combinations of flora and fauna.

Thanks to the happenstance of the inadvertant mothballing of, e.g., MCS, Book, etc., because they were too expensive to tear down, plus the continued usage of Fischer and the GM Tech Center, Detroit already is a museum of American architecture of the 20th century. Maybe a permanent museum to tie everything together, plus driving tours based on themes such as residential, industrial, office, or KAHN!! could be a draw for architecture fiends.

[Richard]

In a word, No. We do not need any more car museums in the Detroit area or Michigan.

First, we have enough already. And second, the business model is not sustainable.

Look at what we already have. What marque is missing or under-represented??

1. The Gilmore Museum
2. Classic Car Club – partner in Gilmore
3. Franklin Automobile – partner in Gilmore
4. Cadillac/LaSalle – partner in Gilmore
5. Ford Model A – partner in Gilmore
6. Lincoln Motor Car – partner in Gilmore
7. Pierce Arrow Club – partner in Gilmore
8. Horseless Carriage Club – partner in Gilmore
9. The Henry Ford
10. Ford Piquette Plant
11. Stahls Automotive Foundation
12. Packard Proving Grounds
13. Wills Sainte Claire Auto Museum
14. Automotive Hall of Fame
15. RE Olds Museum
16. GM Historic Archives
17. Ypsilanti [[Hudson) Auto Museum
18. Michigan Firehouse Museum
19. Sloan [[Buick) Museum
20. Pontiac / Oakland Car Museum
21. Roush Auto Collection

Sustainability – there has never been an auto museum to survive from entry fees alone. Most museums charge in the $8 to $12 dollar range and have about 15,000 paid guests a year. At $150,000 a year that does not pay for curator and staff salaries, let alone utilities, maintenance of the building and car collection, insurance, and general operating costs. This is all assuming someone bought the land and constructed a building for FREE.

All museums rely on either a “sugar daddy” or some other source of income to keep the doors open. Supplementary income sources include fundraisers, donors, legacy gifts, grants and renting the property as an event venue.

Do a search of the financial filings of the IRS 990 report forms for non-profit auto museums and see the long list of operating costs. Don’t be surprised at how many museums are losing money.

Again, who is not already in the area? And who has a sustainable business plan?

If one looks at a couple of key words and suggestions already like creating destinations and rotating stock.

One could create a large auto eccentric museum that is actually represented by all of the other museums under one roof,rotating stock so the been there done that aspect is eliminated.

The other participating museums would gain more exposure and could branch of from there in a kinda like here is a taste of what we have to offer in a more specific setting.

You collect at the main event and hand them a coupon for a reduced price to visit,the Packard Proving grounds where it actually happened,raise your price there to $25 for the more personalized experience,give them a coupon for $5 off,you are now collecting double admission.

You are doubling,at least,your exposure,the building is paid for by the bed tax so what are you really out of pocket in order to create more exposure?

Yes it does always boil down to expense and museums are money pits,but they are important money pits when it comes to the public.

Where the tourist destinations kick in,bed taxes are levied to fund them.

They also fund convention centers and other facilities tourist related,you have 3 things that the world knows Detroit for,architecture and how to destroy it,the automobile and the music scene.

All of those could be capitalized,I do not think a central automotive museum would canibalize the other auto museums.

When people come from all over the world to visit Disney world,they do not stop there,even though they stay on the property and have at their fingertips everything they could desire,they still span out and spend millions in the local economy,they can buy trainloads of little Chinese made Mickey Mouse figures right there on Disney property,but they still buy them in local shops.

Disney world spends millions every year trying to figure out how to keep guests trapped within their space,they go out of their way so people do not leave the property,but yet millions still do.

I would not be so quick to look at it as a competition,more so a concerted effort in order to build a tourist based automotive destination as part of the bigger picture,where everybody is represented and benefits from increased traffic.

Maybe a representative from each existing museum forms a automotive museum tourist council that oversees it,so everybody is represented equally.You guys know your game better then anybody else.

They use the bed tax in order to fund things because it takes the tax weight off of the locals.

The world already knows Detroit,recognition is half the battle,give them a reason to re-discover you,they saved up all year for the trip,they are looking for a place to spend that money.

Like Art the history of the automobile past will never go away,Monet has been dead for how long? But people still pay money and want to see those paintings because they are representative of a style that will never go out of fashion anybody that says a early brass era car or even a lot of 30s 40s 50s 60s car are not rolling works of art is blind.

Do not underestimate the power of the tourist dollar and what it can do for a local economy.

If somebody can stick a massive mall out in the middle of Bumphuck nowhere and it becomes an international tourist destination I would think you guys have a lot more to offer a bit more exciting then a day at the mall.

Do not have anything to lose by at least checking the idea out.

[K-slice]

GM has so much empty "retail" space in the Ren Cen with virtually no chance of filling it. Something like this would make sense for them. I'm sure GM even has old concept cars sitting around somewhere that they could rotate in and out. That would actually be a draw for some enthusiasts, much more so than another Mustang or Corvette.

[Gistok]

Richard, I believe you've not been to metro Detroit...

But The Henry Ford... [Henry Ford Museum & Greenfield Village] is the largest indoor/outdoor museum in the country, and 2nd only to the Smithsonian when it comes to Americana.

It pretty much sucks much of the visitor dollars from people wanting to see history here in Detroit.

Besides being the premier museum of American innovation, it has a vast collection of cars, airplanes, trains, machinery. It also includes such historic items as the limo in which President Kennedy was assassinated, the Ford Theatre Chair in which Lincoln was assassinated in, the Rosa Parks Bus... and everything imaginable of historic Americana.

And in the Greenfield Village area next door it has [on a scale reminiscent of Colonial Williamsburg] a vast village of historic relocated buildings, such as Thomas Edison's entire Menlo Park NJ complex, Lincoln's Logan County Courthouse, Wright Brothers Home and Cycle Shop, Firestone Farm, and nearly 100 other famous buildings that were all relocated here. Henry Ford even attempted to buy Independence Hall in the early 20th Century, but was denied... so he built a facsimile as the Museum front.

Detroit really does have 2 world class museums in the Detroit Institute of Arts and The Henry Ford. Nothing else here comes close...

P.S. Hotel and [by the glass] liquor taxes already are paying for the last expansion of Detroit's Convention Center.

[Richard]

With tourism you have to have a wow factor with a little ringling brothers thrown in.

Being it is Detroit,the birthplace,I would think people would want to see how the automobile evolved through the ages for all brands with representative vehicles that showcase that.

I can go to a local car show and see any kind of vehicle I want for free,if I am expecting an automobile experience I would expect to pay for it.

When people go see a movie in a theater,are they going for the movie or the experience that come with it?

If you start out with all of the brands being represented,you are getting a taste and if for instance you want to see more model T representatives,well step right up because we have more in the plant that they are actually built in right over here.

The main event is the bait or the seduction,once you get their interest peaked you get them into a more intimate setting for an up
close and personal,who can resist?

Of course along the way,they have to eat,get gas and hey let’s check that place out!

It’s totally different when you deal with tourists verses locals,tourists are there for one reason only,for you to seduce the cash out of their pockets,if not they would not even be there in the first place.

But they are expecting an experience to remember in exchange.

[Gistok]

The Henry Ford Museum experience is pretty amazing...

https://www.google.com/search?q=the+...ih=577&dpr=1.5

[Richard]

Richard, I believe you've not been to metro Detroit...

But The Henry Ford... [[Henry Ford Museum & Greenfield Village) is the largest indoor/outdoor museum in the country, and 2nd only to the Smithsonian when it comes to Americana.

It pretty much sucks much of the visitor dollars from people wanting to see history here in Detroit.

Besides being the premier museum of American innovation, it has a vast collection of cars, airplanes, trains, machinery. It also includes such historic items as the limo in which President Kennedy was assassinated, the Ford Theatre Chair in which Lincoln was assassinated in, the Rosa Parks Bus... and everything imaginable of historic Americana.

And in the Greenfield Village area next door it has [on a scale reminiscent of Colonial Williamsburg] a vast village of historic relocated buildings, such as Thomas Edison's entire Menlo Park NJ complex, Lincoln's Logan County Courthouse, Wright Brothers Home and Cycle Shop, Firestone Farm, and nearly 100 other famous buildings that were all relocated here. Henry Ford even attempted to buy Independence Hall in the early 20th Century, but was denied... so he built a facsimile as the Museum front.

Detroit really does have 2 world class museums in the Detroit Institute of Arts and The Henry Ford. Nothing else comes close...

I think Ford sucks,as a tourist,you got any other things to offer ?

I have a friend that has 16 model A and T s,he drives a different one to work every day to the barbershop like he has for the last 50 years.

As a tourist I can go take Amtrak to Washington DC ,pay $20 for the Old town bus tour that drops me off at every museum that costs nothing to get into including the Smithsonian.

Nothing is stopping the city of Detroit from levying it’s own bed tax,or expanding it to AirBNB,as far as I know anyways.

But tourism effects everybody in the state and it should be a state wide objective to exploit all avenues across the board and create new ones.

Do not take this the wrong way and think that I am disrespecting what you currently have to offer,you are right,I have not been there,so I cannot judge,people spend to much time telling me I have not been there,verses giving me a reason to be there.

You are correct,I see Pure Michigan adds but they concentrate on strictly natural resources and not anything else you have to offer,every state has beauty in their natural resources.

You could very well have the best art institutes in the country or Ford may very well have a excellent museum,but if the world does not know about it,it does no good.

On the international aspect,tourists are spending $10,000 plus in that week,you have to keep them entertained for that week with a full schedule all day long,even if rail progresses and you draw day trips,you still have to be able to fill those 1 to 3 day trips.

If funds are being siphoned out of the COD which is preventing tourist trade growth that will help the city and ease the burden on local taxpayers,you have local representatives that have proven that they are not camera shy maybe it is time to light a fire under their ass and get those issues resolved first.

As an internationally recognized city you have to have loftier goals and fluid,not this here and that there,you have to tie it all together into one big revenue generating machine.

Getting back to the automobile museum as an example,it’s tough to survive on your own and all of these little places competing against each other for the dollar when everybody is actually a part of that same circle.

The art institute,Ford museum,Packard proving grounds,the historical architecture etc it is all connected in the bigger picture,you just have to figure out how to stitch it all together.

Combined you have a collection of stuff across a wide spectrum that 90% of the other cities in this country cannot even come close to matching.

But you do not want to share it with the rest of the world,you can,the opportunity is there .

I spent 30 years in Orlando,I saw what it was like when 100s of different entities fought each other for that tourist dollar,it was dog eat dog,until they all got together for a common goal,then everybody made bank.

In that game,nobody survives as an island amongst themselves.

[southen]

I think part of the cultural center revitalization plan includes an expansion of the Detroit Historical Museum which I would hope would include many of their "bubble" cars currently being stored at Fort Wayne.

I know when I travel I look for museums and cultural institutions that are in or around downtown. We have a ton of museums but I feel that lack of a central location near downtown probably hurts the potential of drawing people in for that type of institution. That is just based on how I travel and visit places though, I don't know if the numbers would bare that out.