Massive Ford EV investment in KY and TN, not Michigan

[Burnsie]

I emailed the author asking for follow-up: was Michigan given a shot at bidding for all this stuff, or did Ford decide from the outset to build the plants down there? The workers will have the opportunity to join the UAW. I bet one of the reasons Ford is building in KY/TN [[aside from the usual gazillions in govt handouts) is that they're hoping the workers will reject the union, and they know the governments down there will do all they can to ensure that outcome.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...es/5884985001/

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Ironic in that the hillbillies down there most likely disparage electric vehicles and their leaders are wedded to fossil fuels.

[DTWflyer]

Yep...total horses$%^

This is a complete sham.
I've been involved on the periphery of numerous site selections for manufacturers over the past several years and Michigan is never ever on the short-list.

Its always:
Texas
Georgia
Tennessee
Kentucky
Arizona

Michigan cannot compete with its cost structure. Its completely non-competitive.

FU Ford.

[Satiricalivory]

Who cares? Those states passed like half a billion each in public incentives for Ford, they bent over and took it. Big surprise. All the high paying Ford jobs are here and will remain to grow here, and they just spent about a billion on their electric F-150 plant here.

[Richard]

It says in the article that Ford was given a conditional $250 million for up to 11,000 jobs,in contrast you guys gave Mr Gilbert $200 million,unconditionally.

With all of the climate change fear mongering it appears that the decision had a lot to do with weather,located in a part of the country that has minimal or mild weather.

They purchased 3500 acres,and also reported that it takes massive power consumption and water in order to produce the batteries,so the power grid or excess to a reliable one may have also had a lot to do with it.

As far as hillbillies in the south ?

The population in the south has doubled and tripled from people fleeing the north and west,anymore most parts you would be hard pressed to find people that were born there in the first place.

Long term they are probably looking at those moving trends and following where the labor force is moving.

Considering where technology is heading and the increased use of robotics,it’s probably not going to matter anyways,factories will probably end up with more technicians watching the robots verses actually building anything.

But Michigan should be working on employment diversity instead of trying to retain dependence on the big 2.5 like in the past.

Ford has always been a multinational company with factories everywhere,how is this any different outside of it is being built on US soil instead of south of the border or elsewhere.

I am sure people in Canada are also saying,hey you shut these factories down,how about putting another one here?

[Wheels]

Ironic in that the hillbillies down there most likely disparage electric vehicles and their leaders are wedded to fossil fuels.

Hillbillies? Obviously a libtard. And if you think there is even a slim chance we will eliminate fossil fuel in the near future your living in a bubble.

[MikeM]

Ironic in that the hillbillies down there most likely disparage electric vehicles and their leaders are wedded to fossil fuels.

Ironic in that they disparaged electricity 90 years ago.

[Meddle]

What's funny is all the people that moved north to work in the plants, then retired back south. Now the plants are going south to where the the plant retiree's families are.

[Lowell]

I think this is being read incorrectly. There have been numerous recent new automotive-related developments and expansions here in MI. Need we be reminded of Ford's MI Central campus and the upgrading of the Dearborn tech facilities?

New developments in other states have broader political implications giving companies federal support across other constituencies. The boondoggle-F-35 fighter has parts made in just about every state. Try and stop them.

Characterizing people of KY and TN hillbillies is incorrect and needlessly insensitive. There are many brilliant and technologically and environmentally advanced minds in both states. The governor of KY is Dem. This isn't a cultural issue, it's just business.

[Satiricalivory]

It says in the article that Ford was given a conditional $250 million for up to 11,000 jobs,in contrast you guys gave Mr Gilbert $200 million,unconditionally.

Uhh no, read up more before you comment. Kentucky's legislature passed a $410 million economic incentive packaging for that state alone, for just about 5,000 manufacturing jobs.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...es/5879885001/

These incentives are not comparable to what the state gave Gilbert to save colossal decaying historical buildings that have huge cultural importance and new development, filling them with high paying jobs. Not comparable numerically or in terms of the value it brings to the state.

[Richard]

Uhh no, read up more before you comment. Kentucky's legislature passed a $410 million economic incentive packaging for that state alone, for just about 5,000 manufacturing jobs.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...es/5879885001/

These incentives are not comparable to what the state gave Gilbert to save colossal decaying historical buildings that have huge cultural importance and new development, filling them with high paying jobs. Not comparable numerically or in terms of the value it brings to the state.

Yea how about you actually read the links before telling others to,why go out of your way to act like that?

From the original link

With two Ford plants in Louisville, Kentucky's Gov. Andy Beshear knows Ford well and worked to close this deal. He told the Free Press on Monday that the project involves a $250 million forgivable loan, which requires the automaker to meet its projections for investment and jobs.

From the link you provided

Ford will be able to take advantage of up to $250 million in forgivable loans and $36 million of skills training investment.

The subject was about Ford and their investments and not a particular states total commitment to enticing companies to the state.

It is comparable because that is what it is all about,useing incentives to encourage jobs and growth.

Detroit just received 4 million in fed funding to improve roads leading up to Fords new plant there.

The 36 million in skills training investment was received under the previous administration,you made sure Detroit got theirs right?

I mean if you want to remain competitive you have to have a skilled based to work from.

With Covid that is now 6 years of stagnant skills training in Michigan,that is not Fords fault.

[Satiricalivory]

They literally passed a near half billion incentive package for one state for 5,000 jobs. Even if the whole thing doesn't go directly to Ford, that money is going to Ford's partner. You're still also totally wrong about the jobs.

This is also much worse since Kentucky is directly giving Ford money that they never have to pay back. The Gilbert incentives are future taxes on his projects. Tax money that doesn't exist unless he develops. Michigan didn't give a cent out of the budget to Gilbert.

[hybridy]

Crain's is reporting: "MEDC Chief: Michigan didn't 'actively' bid for new Ford plants" [[paywall)

[CassTechGrad]

This reminds me of a similar situtation back in 1972. Berry Gordy moved the Motown Records operations to California and took all the Detroit jobs with them. I said then that I will never buy anything with the Motown label on it and I never have.

[JonWylie]

This reminds me of a similar situtation back in 1972. Berry Gordy moved the Motown Records operations to California and took all the Detroit jobs with them. I said then that I will never buy anything with the Motown label on it and I never have.

This isn't even remotely the same thing

[Richard]

They literally passed a near half billion incentive package for one state for 5,000 jobs. Even if the whole thing doesn't go directly to Ford, that money is going to Ford's partner. You're still also totally wrong about the jobs.

This is also much worse since Kentucky is directly giving Ford money that they never have to pay back. The Gilbert incentives are future taxes on his projects. Tax money that doesn't exist unless he develops. Michigan didn't give a cent out of the budget to Gilbert.

We must be reading the same link differently

It clearly says 11,000 jobs
It clearly says 250 million in forgivable loans,meaning if the jobs or requirements are not met then they have to pay back the 250 million.

It’s there in both links pretty clearly put.

Mr Gilbert was paid by the city of Detroit and not the state,after that any project that he takes on after the purchase also qualifies for more funds.

I was in contact with them at the beginning when Snyder first announced that they were doing away with the historic tax credits and defunding the state’s incentive pool.

Because at that time it basically shut down all investment in the state and literally killed all projects in the city of Detroit,nobody that had any involvement in incentives or economic growth in the city was put in a state of limbo and nobody knew why.

It was a crunch time for the city,with nobody knowing what was going to happen next.

What did happen next was a month later a EM was announced then the bankruptcy.

People keep wondering why outsiders do not invest in the city or state,it’s no different then what is reflected here,you do not like outsiders and you make things personal when policies are made available for growth.

In case nobody has noticed,the politicians still get rich and you still spin wheels wondering why things stay the same,it is only yourselves and your city that you are hurting.

It’s a really big country out there with a lot of cities with opportunities,if you want to close in the walls,then you have to accept the consequences.

It should not matter who is sitting where,if a politician is offering a solution to make your city a better place,the only people you are hurting by rejecting,simply because you do not like that particular politician,is your self and your city.

Sense the 1980s the city has forgone 100s of millions in aid and programs,those funds would have made a massive difference today.

Nobody is going to ride in on a white horse and save the city,you have to,every administration that comes in has their own view of helping,along with a pile of money,you are not selling your sole for those funds,nor are you required to sleep with the person,waiting every 4 years to encourage growth or encouraging investment along with population increase,is not working.

You cannot possibly build a city with all the trappings that come with it by expecting 4 local billionaires to do it all for you.

Its your job to support policies that help you to set the stage so you can be open for business.

Previously there was an administration that was on their soapbox everyday about bringing manufacturing back to this country and the good jobs that follow,most spent 4 years telling them to piss off.

How did that work out? They are still a billionaire and the only thing you accomplished was losing 4 years of growth.

Now the same companies that joined you in the piss off campaign are saying,well we need to bring manufacturing back to this country.

Now it is critical and it will be another 3 years before they are online.

7 years of wasted opportunity simply because people did not like somebody,

You do not have to like anybody, but when a policy pops up that could benefit the city,it is usually best to take the funds and run with it,because it does not happen every day.

[401don]

This reminds me of a similar situtation back in 1972. Berry Gordy moved the Motown Records operations to California and took all the Detroit jobs with them. I said then that I will never buy anything with the Motown label on it and I never have.

It's been over 30 years since Gordy sold Motown. If you want to buy the "ABC" single now it's okay.

[Gistok]

Mr Gilbert was paid by the city of Detroit and not the state,after that any project that he takes on after the purchase also qualifies for more funds.

<SNIP>

I was in contact with them at the beginning when Snyder first announced that they were doing away with the historic tax credits and defunding the state’s incentive pool.

<SNIP>

State Michigan Strategic Fund money to Gilbert...

https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits...r-new-projects

Renewal of State Historic Tax Credit under Whitmer...

https://www.miplace.org/historic-pre...n-tax-credits/

[Atticus]

There is a reason Michigan won’t attract outside developments like this. Other states are willing to “pay to play”, Michigan significantly isn’t. On the political left, Democrats can’t stomach providing major incentives to big corporations and millionaire CEOs, and on the political right, Republicans are so anti-government anything that fundamentally they can’t be in favor of collecting the needed tax dollars to fund these incentives. Hence here we are.

For Ford, the investments certainly help. But it is also in Fords interest to not just be a Michigan manufacturer. This news will undoubtedly increase Ford sales in those regions. If the business climate turns sour and Ford needs help from Washington, it is not just the Michigan politicos they can get favors from. Now TN and KY might help, and with Michigan being a slightly blue state politically, this provides cover from the other side of the aisle.

Sure it would be great to have those jobs here. But there is more to it than that. Michigan’s incentives suck, and it is in Fords best business interest to geographically diversify anyway.

[Richard]

State Michigan Strategic Fund money to Gilbert...

https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits...r-new-projects

Renewal of State Historic Tax Credit under Whitmer...

https://www.miplace.org/historic-pre...n-tax-credits/

My reference was back in 2009,I still remember the phone calls 2 days before Christmas and everybody was WTF,then everybody went home for 2 weeks for the holidays.

Looking at it in hindsight,it was all clearly thought out and engineered to play out the way it did.

Anyways

He is closer to receiving 1 billion

https://m.metrotimes.com/detroit/how-dan-gilbert-just-scored-up-to-1-billion-in-taxpayer-money-and-few-noticed/Content?oid=5981552

But my whole point was,it is still a tightly knit group in control that likes to keep things as they are.

When you see a major project completed in that circle,like the article reads,the tax capture keeps that property out if the tax base for another 20 years.

It is dangerous for the city to have so many key properties removed from the tax base for so long while under the control of one,the object was to get away from being a corporate owned city.

If that same billion was offered to outside investors,downtown would be a whole different story by now.

So an outsider buys a building downtown while expecting tax credits like everybody else in order to make it feasible.

Tax credits are denied to the outsider,so now they are sitting on a building that is not feasible to rebuild,nice friendly local guy comes in a relives the outsider from their burden for pennies on the dollar.

Next day the tax credits are approved,which increases the value of the building and makes it feasible.

Word gets around and outsiders know better then to go near Detroit or Michigan when it comes to real estate investments.

In the south it is referred to as the good ole boy system,but it does not put a stranglehold on the cities.

That happens everywhere but not to the extent it is happening up there.

gotta figure out how to break out of that cycle in order to really move forward.

Honestly back then as an outsider trying to bring a major investment to the city that would have provided good jobs,the only support that was there was from the DIBC and a few personal that were within city hall,the mayor,state and county pretty much said to piss off,not in those exact words,but it was made pretty clear that it would be an uphill battle that would not be won.

[313WX]

Atticus and Richard are both right on the money.

Instead of being mad at private companies for working in their best interest, folks should be mad with their leaders in Michigan who have failed at making the state attractive for these businesses and their investments.

I'm guessing there will be even more salt when Rivian formally announces their 2nd plant with 7.5K jobs will be in DFW.

[Honky Tonk]

Atticus and Richard are both right on the money.

Instead of being mad at private companies for working in their best interest, folks should be mad with their leaders in Michigan who have failed at making the state attractive for these businesses and their investments.

I'm guessing there will be even more salt when Rivian formally announces their 2nd plant with 7.5K jobs will be in DFW.

+5 But to be fair, we are getting a weed factory, maybe...

[Cincinnati_Kid]

This isn't even remotely the same thing

Agreed. Barry Gordy moved Motown moved to LA because it's the Entertainment Capitol of the World. No knock against Detroit, it was founded there.

[Danny]

At the GM Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly "Factory Zero!" will be making EV's from now on. Thank you for saving Hamtramck!

[CassTechGrad]

It's been over 30 years since Gordy sold Motown. If you want to buy the "ABC" single now it's okay.

Thanks guys, I went right out and got my favorite:"Stop, the love you save............... Stop the love you save may be your own!
Darling, take it slow
Or some day you'll be all alone.