Hart Plaza

[stasu1213]

Does anyone know what is going on at Hart Plaza? I noticed it being fenced off and a couple of bulldozers are there

[GPCharles]

Lots of new concrete being poured to replace broken tile areas.

[southen]

Lots of new concrete being poured to replace broken tile areas.

I wish they would just work on a more permanent replacement plan and redesign of the plaza than to rip everything up and just poor concrete.

[401don]

I wish they would just work on a more permanent replacement plan and redesign of the plaza than to rip everything up and just poor concrete.

I think everyone would agree but since they don't even have a plan yet I think it's reached a point where it's necessary for safety, otherwise they would have to rope off unusable areas for a few years. Haven't they had some design contests or proposal requests over the last several years?

[EastsideAl]

Finally. This repair has been necessary for several years now. At the Jazz Festival in 2019 the stairways and walkways were literally crumbling under people's feet and the restrooms were awash.

Hopefully, they don't screw it up too badly, but like the Scott Fountain debacle I don't have a lot of confidence in the historical/architectural sensitivity of the city's contractors or management. Once the basic infrastructure is made safe enough to use again, then we can have a discussion about how to best maintain, modify, and preserve Noguchi's plaza design.

[expatriate]

While we are on the subject. Am I the only one who hates the Dodge Fountain? It seems it hardly ever works because the complicated computer system is always malfunctioning. Granted my tastes in such things is much more old fashioned, but I much prefer the more modest one at Grand Circus Park although the site could benefit from something larger like Chicago's Buckingham Fountain.

[Satiricalivory]

Finally. This repair has been necessary for several years now. At the Jazz Festival in 2019 the stairways and walkways were literally crumbling under people's feet and the restrooms were awash.

Hopefully, they don't screw it up too badly, but like the Scott Fountain debacle I don't have a lot of confidence in the historical/architectural sensitivity of the city's contractors or management. Once the basic infrastructure is made safe enough to use again, then we can have a discussion about how to best maintain, modify, and preserve Noguchi's plaza design.

What Scott Fountain debacle?

[K-slice]

The Dodge Fountain could be a big draw for the Plaza, it's a neglected mess as it sits though. So many kids play in the GM fountains by the RenCen in the summer. I'm sure if Dodge Fountain worked as it should we'd see similar activity.

Given the success of the Riverwalk and CM I can't believe a major renovation hasn't happened yet.

[Gistok]

I don't believe the Dodge Fountain has EVER worked correctly.

I'm not sure if this is an urban legend... but I heard 20 years ago that when it was installed somehow a 5 gallon bucket got into and plugged up the works to the fountain, and it has never worked as intended... with all the different water sprays.

Any confirmation or comment to the contrary??

[Henry Whalley]

Just say ‘No’ to Noguchi. It’s a hideous public space IMHO.

[Jason]

I don't believe the Dodge Fountain has EVER worked correctly.

I'm not sure if this is an urban legend... but I heard 20 years ago that when it was installed somehow a 5 gallon bucket got into and plugged up the works to the fountain, and it has never worked as intended... with all the different water sprays.

Any confirmation or comment to the contrary??

This article here talks about it: https://docomomo-us.org/news/musings...i-s-hart-plaza

It seems like it was the usual pattern for the city. Get top notch talent to build something great, destroy it through neglect and incompetence [[someone dropping a paint bucket into the filter), and then maybe eventually spend a lot of money sort of fixing it, just to immediately go back to neglecting it.

I don't know exactly how the pavers were originally installed, but in general one of the benefits of pavers is that when there's a problem you can just remove and reinstall the pavers in the affected area and it's as good as new. It's not like concrete pavement, which slowly falls apart until it's bad enough to justify replacing it all, it's something which with proper maintenance is always in perfect condition.

[Zacha341]

There were some nice views and times of the fountain... I loved it in its hay-day....

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...za_-_front.jpg

http://michiganexposures.blogspot.co...-fountain.html

[Vitalis]

Back in summer of 1981 when I was working at the RenCen they would test the fountain's water works at noon so that people working downtown could watch with fascination and delight. I believe everything worked for those weeks [[though I never got to see the light show.) The DSO played noontime concerts at Hart Plaza during the work week. It was about possibilities and good intentions. The vastness of Hart Plaza stood in contrast to the density north of Jefferson Ave. Walking across the plaza when the fountain was working, and one could feel the mist and hear the roar, was a sublime feeling.

[EastsideAl]

What Scott Fountain debacle?

The contractor renovating the fountain destroyed all of the beautiful Pewabic tile that lined the bottom of the fountain with decorations of marine life and replaced them with plain white concrete.

[Jason]

I actually have this image from https://www.noguchi.org/isamu-noguch...s/shoji-sadao/ as my phone background, it works really nicely.

[401don]

I actually have this image from https://www.noguchi.org/isamu-noguch...s/shoji-sadao/ as my phone background, it works really nicely.

Funny how black & white photos always look older than they are. Actually the picture is probably around 40 years old but looks like it's from the 1950's. [[Maybe it's just me getting old.) I always thought the oddest part of Hart Plaza was having an underground restaurant on a picturesque riverfront.

[Gistok]

I remember back in the day of the Ethnic Festivals in Hart Plaza... it was a wonderful time... Hart Plaza was perfectly set up to handle them... the lower level was mainly food and beverage kiosks, bathrooms, etc. It really was a perfect space for that use.

Much of the blame for the current state of the plaza is the city's lack of maintanence.

I'm not sure what the reason was for the Ethnic festivals leaving the space... rental cost? Inability to charge entrance fee? Not sure.

Many of the ethnic festivals later moved out to Macomb County... for a long time they were over at Freedom Hill park area... but I believe rental and parking fees were an issue there.

Today many of the Ethic Festivals are downsized to remote locations with attendance mainly the ethnic groups that put them on. Also, with many 1st and 2nd generation immigrants dying off, the numbers for even large groups such as Germans, Polish and Italians has greatly dwindled.

[Ray1936]

Frankly, I think Mrs. Dodge would roll over in her grave if she could see the shitbox of a fountain they came up with. I think she was thinking of something like the Scott fountain on Belle Isle when she left the two mil bucks for its construction.

[stasu1213]

Wasn't the fountain supposed to change colors when the water was gusing out of it? I was told that the mecanism which cause the fountain to display different color lighting had long broken and the city didnt have the funds to repair it. I don't know if that is true or not

[expatriate]

Frankly, I think Mrs. Dodge would roll over in her grave if she could see the shitbox of a fountain they came up with. I think she was thinking of something like the Scott fountain on Belle Isle when she left the two mil bucks for its construction.

I'm sure you are correct since her own taste ran more to French Renaissance. A complex mechanism like the current one was bound to be problematic.

[Burnsie]

Time for a couple of fountain facts. Free Press, 12/16/1970: "Mrs. Dodge had seen movies of a large fountain in Barcelona, Spain, and hoped one of similar grandeur could be built in Detroit. She did not however limit the future artist to any specific design in making her bequest."

A 6/4/1970 article states that the "Magic Fountain" was the one that inspired her. Art Deco, not Italian Renaissance.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi..._Montju%C3%AFc

Bob Hastings, head of Smith, Hinchman & Grylls, chose Isamu Noguchi's entry from the design competition.

Maybe if Noguchi had foreseen the incompetent maintenance by the city, he would have designed a less elaborate fountain. Can't place the blame on him, though. Instead of referring to his work as a "shitbox," perhaps take a moment to learn something about him. www.noguchi.org