Detroiter's Need More Transparency from Whitmer?

**Zacha341** · March-05-21, 12:04 PM

Whitmer's curious ex-health director's separation agreement...

https://www.freep.com/story/news/pol...on/6883888002/

I don't think the questioning of this is going away. It's top of mind for most Detroiters I talk and work with. Especially considering our disproportionately high numbers impacted by COVID. I think we need to know more.

**Dan Wesson** · March-06-21, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Whitmer's curious ex-health director's separation agreement...

https://www.freep.com/story/news/pol...on/6883888002/

I don't think the questioning of this is going away. It's top of mind for most Detroiters I talk and work with. Especially considering our disproportionately high numbers impacted by COVID. I think we need to know more.

Ha...

I. SUMMARY OF MICHIGAN’S FREEDOM OFINFORMATION ACT
The following basic provisions of the Freedom of Information Act [[FOIA).

The text of the statute follows in Section II.

Basic Intent:
The FOIA regulates and sets requirements for the disclosure of certain public records of certain public bodies in the state.

Key Definitions:
“Public body” means a state officer, employee, agency, department, division, bureau, board, commission, council, authority, or other body in the executive branch of state government

but does not include the governor or lieutenant governor, the executive office of the governor or lieutenant governor, or employees thereof.

It also includes:
• an agency, board, commission, or council in the legislative branch of state government;• a county, city, township, village, inter-county, inter-city, or regional governing body, council, school district, special district, or municipal corporation, or a board, department, commission, council, or agency thereof; or any other.....

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/a...t_380084_7.pdf

**Dan Wesson** · March-06-21, 01:02 PM

More on transparency from Lansing...
https://apnews.com/article/751ef8a26...802e8ac2ccd348

Good Luck with that Zacha...

I am with you.

**Honky Tonk** · March-06-21, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

More on transparency from Lansing...
https://apnews.com/article/751ef8a26...802e8ac2ccd348

Good Luck with that Zacha...

I am with you.

Yay Whitler!

**Hypestyles** · March-07-21, 09:02 AM

it's messy. depending on how long this drags out, it's going to inform the 2022 re-election campaign.

**Wheels** · March-09-21, 06:37 PM

Whither should be behind bars before the next election!

https://www.mackinac.org/mackinac-ce...ng-home-deaths

**Dumpling** · March-10-21, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Wheels

Whither should be behind bars before the next election!

https://www.mackinac.org/mackinac-ce...ng-home-deaths

Okay. I am not certain who "Whither" might be. A last name of "Whither" is quite distinctive! It is more respectful, both to the people reading your post and to the person about whom you are posting, to correctly spell a last name if doing so is within your capabilities.

Using a last name by itself is basic respect. To convey
more respect, to be more polite, one may use a title,
if applicable. In this case, your comment might refer
to Whitmer, or more politely and respectfully,
Governor Whitmer.

You might be referring to a different individual whose
actual distinctive last name is "Whither", and
in some way that you can clarify in your next
post, "Whither" needs to be charged with a felony,
since misdemeanors committed by those with wealth
and social capital tend to result in fines and
community service rather than time behind bars.

The case of former Governor Snyder sheds light
on this. Even if he is convicted of the misdemeanors
with which he was charged, it is unlikely that he
will actually serve time behind bars.

[[The ex-Governor Snyder thread is closed to further
comments; so a side note here about "When Did
He Know There Was A Problem In Flint?" courtesy
of The Intercept. Probably that was in mid-October
of 2014.)

https://theintercept.com/2021/01/13/...-legionnaires/

Recently I read an AARP Bulletin series of articles
about the deaths in nursing homes due to COVID-19.

One AARP journalist's "30,000 foot view" [[as follows)

https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/heal...-to-blame.html

of the
underlying causes of why the mortality rates were
so high, especially in certain poorly run nursing
homes that tended to have more minority populations
in them, was that decades ago, nursing homes
were set up as near-hospitals whereas home care
and home-like settings were defunded. Today
Medicaid patients in nursing homes are
underfunded in proportion to their costs whereas
Medicare patients received from hospitals are
overfunded in proportion to their costs. Consequently,
it becomes a financial requirement for nursing homes to
take in Medicare patients received from hospitals.

During the time of the early pandemic, the only
Medicare patients coming from the hospitals were
recovering COVID-19 patients.

It is certain that these patients should have gone to
COVID-19 only facilities and not sent to nursing homes
with Medicaid patients that did not have COVID-19.

One can envision that a "strong governor" with
sweeping emergency powers dating back to
laws enacted in 1945 would mandate any and
all measures to mitigate the COVID-19 health
hazard. One problem has been that for every
measure mandated, economic hardships result.

One can envision "Dictator Whitmer" dictating
that no COVID-19 patients are to go to nursing
homes or assisted living facilities except for
those specially set up for them. But, one then
needs the state legislature to help allocate
state funds to supplement Federal Medicaid
and Medicare funding and to reroute funding
as needed so that nursing homes and assisted
living facilities continue in the best way possible
under the circumstances. But the legislature
wasn't in this particular place at the start of
the pandemic. It seemed to be more focused
on curbing emergency powers of "Dictator
Whitmer". It was successful in this endeavor.
Contact your legislator and thank them if this
is exactly right and what you did want to see.

**Richard** · March-10-21, 12:05 PM

Picks up the phone and calls an empty Ramada .....cuts check from the rainy day fund after immediately declaring a state emergency so the feds can pick up the tab.

Can even be done with that newfangled technology stuff from the office,without approval because it is directly related.

Must be nice to have a governors office that is exempt from sunshine laws,it’s kinda like having a free ticket to ride.

It is taxpayers money,they do have a right to know.Not sure why both sides figure we work for them.

**Dumpling** · March-10-21, 01:57 PM

It is possible that the Executive Branch including
the governor could have been more timely in
certain reactions to the pandemic onset here in
Michigan.

I do feel that the pandemic was taken seriously
by this governor and many others starting from
January 2020. That said, there were provisions
that had to be made sooner than they actually
were. THAT said, more transparency all around
would be good.

It did seem that once the stock market took a big
nosedive starting late in February 2020 the
money managers woke everyone up and governments
[[aka money manager bond funds) could take
actions as permitted after that.

The governor would have had to step on the normal
transfer of Medicare patients from hospitals to nursing
homes that had been occurring for years.

There would have been some back-and-forth in the
courts at the minimum; since it's their money stream,
the nursing homes, 70% of which are private, would
have asked for an emergency stay of the governor's
orders.

**bust** · March-11-21, 05:26 PM

I don't trust any politician, no matter whom, no matter the party, to behave consistently on the up and up without transparency and an audit trail.

Especially not any who'd refuse them.

I like Whitmer better than previous MI leadership, but to lean upon a bad law that permits such opacity is way more than a let down.

The law must change.

And yes, we always expect more from Democrats than the other party, but she should lead by example.

**Dan Wesson** · March-11-21, 07:32 PM

Sic 'em Charlie. Sic 'em.

Fix the Sh!t...

https://deadlinedetroit.com/articles...nd_moved_again

**Honky Tonk** · March-12-21, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

Sic 'em Charlie. Sic 'em.

Fix the Sh!t...

https://deadlinedetroit.com/articles...nd_moved_again

Finally, non-fiction news.

**ASilvaman** · March-13-21, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Whitmer's curious ex-health director's separation agreement...

https://www.freep.com/story/news/pol...on/6883888002/

I don't think the questioning of this is going away. It's top of mind for most Detroiters I talk and work with. Especially considering our disproportionately high numbers impacted by COVID. I think we need to know more.

Detroit and flint needed more transparency from Snyder and his administration, but here we are on Whitmer again.

**Wesley Mouch** · March-13-21, 06:12 PM

Where are the radicals here? Is it left to Libertarian Mouch to say that there should be no documents or conversations or anything that a public official does that should not be able to be visible to the public.

And further to my radicalism, there should be no severance agreements. NONE. This is public, taxpayer money. Its not a private firm -- this is governmental service. If you aren't willing to go to work for the Governor without a contract, then you aren't worth having.

All that said, I defend Cuomo and Whitmer against the accusation [[which I think is the issue here?) that they pushed seniors into nursing homes, to face death.

In the early pandemic days we were trying to 'flatten the curve'. Avoid hospitals filling up. So trying to get people out of hospitals into nursing homes seems reasonable. Even if they knew there would be an increased death rate -- there was an obligation to protect the broader public from even bigger overall harm. Tough decisions. Its what leaders are suppose to make. We don't want leaders who are afraid to make tough decisions. [[Got too much of that already.)

This hospital vs. nursing home thing looks bad in hindsight, but at the time it was a tough decision.

[[Caveat... if it become known that they were motivated by appearances for politics over people's lives, that is different. Haven't heard any reason to doubt Governor Whitmer. Cuomo may have a harder test since he did seem to not want to use the Trump medical ships, as I recall. If he decided to move seniors to care homes to avoid using Trump ships, well then the let the ships fall where they may.)

**Dumpling** · March-14-21, 07:56 AM

Amen, Wesley Mouch, to there being no secrecy
or non-disclosure agreements in government.

FOIA [[freedom of information) costs should either
be waived or limited to the actual costs of gathering
or providing the relevant requested material.

**Richard** · March-14-21, 08:49 AM

The cost of gathering and providing requested materials.

They are on the taxpayers dime,why should the taxpayer have to pay for information that was gathered while collecting that check.

**Dumpling** · March-14-21, 09:14 AM

With the advent of Big Data and advanced information
systems, you should be exactly correct. It should
be possible just to type into your tablet something like,
"request all emails to/from Michigan governor in 2020" and
VOILA! as soon as the computers have done their thing,
there that information is. Being that the computers
are already being paid for anyways the charge should
be waived.

That's not where we are just yet.

**bust** · March-14-21, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Where are the radicals here?
Is it left to Libertarian Mouch to say that there should be no documents or conversations or anything that a public official does that should not be able to be visible to the public.

No. Even for someone with a hero complex, that's lame.
Many of us said the same, days ago.

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Cuomo... did not want to use the Trump medical ships, as I recall.

Wrong. Like those who wrongly recalled the Iran-Contra scandal, over and over again.

Trump and his Navy Secretary prohibited anyone with COVID from entering the Comfort. Anyone with 49 other ailments too. Supposedly it was for our benefit it accepted such limited overflow. Didn't work out that way. Didn't stop some from heralding it as some kind of PR coup. You know who.

Its limited mandate and bureaucratic rules left the Comfort so underutilized Cuomo petitioned Trump to allow COVID patients aboard.
Quite the opposite of what Mouch said.

This was a Detroit, at least a Michigan thread-- until Cuomo was pulled into it.
Same guy hijacked the GPP thread.

Never once have I complained to the admin about a post or a poster.
But I correct boldfaced lies.
At least when they don't come from someone whose never-ending constantly-growing word salad posts are so full of disinfo it's impossible even to keep up with them.

Maybe all off-topic lies would be best uncorrected.
Maybe admin will let us know.

This forum is supposed to be about Detroit.

**Zacha341** · March-15-21, 09:53 PM

Looks like things are getting more opaque and political:

Michigan AG Dana Nessel won't investigate Gov. Whitmer's nursing home policies

https://www.freep.com/story/news/pol...el/4707894001/

Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

More on transparency from Lansing...
https://apnews.com/article/751ef8a26...802e8ac2ccd348

Good Luck with that Zacha...

I am with you.

**Dan Wesson** · March-16-21, 04:59 AM

Dana Nessel says she ain't gonna do it. Nope, Nada, uh uh. Who are them dolts who thought otherwise?

**Wheels** · March-16-21, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

Dana Nessel says she ain't gonna do it. Nope, Nada, uh uh. Who are them dolts who thought otherwise?

You don’t send the fox to investigate the heist in the chicken coup! Nessel needs to be investigated also.

**Zacha341** · March-16-21, 12:21 PM

Yikes! Looks like ole' Charlie Leduff formally of Fox2Detroit is wading in:

Reporter Charlie LeDuff to sue Michigan Gov. Whitmer over nursing home coronavirus data

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mic...hitmer-lawsuit

**Maof** · March-16-21, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Yikes! Looks like ole' Charlie Leduff formally of Fox2Detroit is wading in:

Reporter Charlie LeDuff to sue Michigan Gov. Whitmer over nursing home coronavirus data

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mic...hitmer-lawsuit

Leduff's looking for a come back. Never did like the guy. He's been known for plagiarizing. Last I heard, his employment consisted of working at American Coney Island as a handyman.

**bust** · March-16-21, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Maof

Leduff's looking for a come back. Never did like the guy. He's been known for plagiarizing. Last I heard, his employment consisted of working at American Coney Island as a handyman.

HAT that guy.
Dropped the E;
Put him in a DUFUS cap.

More than evidence:
Bathtub segment.

Right, if wrong,
Better than most of us.

Prince got Controversy
Better than almost all of us.

**Dan Wesson** · March-17-21, 04:36 AM

Ol' Charlie and his crew have put together a weekly podcast / video that appears to be drawing a crowd and paying the bills. I listen every Sunday on the way to and from work.