Your Phone is Now Fair Game for Border Agents

[Jimaz]

Your phone and laptop can be searched and copied without a warrant within 100 miles of the Canadian border? Is that true?

Your Phone is Now Fair Game for Border Agents

It's not likely to affect me but that sounds so wrong.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

• Border agents can search phones freely under new circuit court ruling

[Henry Whalley]

Is that true?

Customs officials at the border may ask for your cell phone. If you refuse, you may not be allowed to enter. That seems reasonable to me.

At the border not elsewhere, e.g., not 100 miles from the border.

[bust]

Customs officials at the border may ask for your cell phone. If you refuse, you may not be allowed to enter. That seems reasonable to me.

At the border not elsewhere, e.g., not 100 miles from the border.

This isn't new.

They can seize and search any digital device. They can demand social media passwords too. I don't think there is anything digital they can't collect. For many, that pretty much gives them access to our entire lives.

It doesn't just apply to foreigners-- US citizens too.

They don't give back the electronics they seize right away. Nor are they obligated to return them in good working condition.

Doesn't seem reasonable to me without reasonable suspicion and a warrant approved by a judge. Getting a warrant could be fast, e.g., FISA court.

Why does this seem reasonable to you?

BTW there is nowhere in MI not within 100 miles of a Great Lake [[and that's what they consider the border) so everyone anywhere in the entire State is subject to this. Even if you've never left the country.

Fear Materialized: Border Agents Demand Social Media Data from Americans
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/0...data-americans

[Henry Whalley]

It doesn't just apply to foreigners-- US citizens too...Why does this seem reasonable to you?

When entering or reentering the U.S., it seems reasonable that customs officials are authorized to search your person, vehicle, personal effects, etc. I remember having my car searched back in the 1960s and the agents confiscated some Cuban cigars that I purchased in Windsor.

I read the link you provided but must have missed the part about the purported 100 mile rule. It wouldn't surprise me though, because the federal courts are jam-packed with reactionary judges.

One reform that I support is that diplomats shouldn't be exempt from customs inspections. Why should an ambassador be free to bring contraband across the border?

[bust]

I remember having my car searched back in the 1960s and the agents confiscated some Cuban cigars that I purchased in Windsor.

How rich was the data they collected upon confiscation of those cigars?

I read the link you provided but must have missed the part about the purported 100 mile rule. It wouldn't surprise me though, because the federal courts are jam-packed with reactionary judges.

Nearly 2 out of 3 Americans live within the 100-mile "Border Zone". Including everyone in Michigan.

A few complain I post too many links. [[Usually someone who never supports their own arguments with a source. Nope.) You could have easily found them yourself:

Inside the Massive U.S. 'Border Zone'
All of Michigan, D.C., and a large chunk of Pennsylvania are part of the area where Border Patrol has expanded search and seizure rights. Here's what it means to live or travel there.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-100-mile-zone

The Constitution in the 100-Mile Border Zone
https://www.aclu.org/other/constitut...le-border-zone

[bust]

When entering or reentering the U.S., it seems reasonable that customs officials are authorized to search your person, vehicle, personal effects, etc.

It's reasonable to search for contraband at border checkpoints and prevent unlawful entry.

But Border Patrol should have that unfettered right only there, and searches should extend only until they can reasonably determine whether there's contraband. It should NOT include confiscating your devices, copying their data, and sharing willy nilly whatever they find. If they have reason to believe such invasive inspection is warranted, they should get a damn warrant.

We have laws against unreasonable search and seizure for good reason. They should apply. Why not here?

Why should they be able to do that to anyone, whenever they want, for no reason? Your bud ice fishing Budd Lake who's never been to Detroit or Port Huron, let alone an airport. The teens taking selfies at the Big Rapids Riverwalk. Your uncle on his porch in his wheelchair. Ma at her assisted living home.

I respect the work of our Border Control agents and our need for them. But I absolutely do not agree they should be able to search and seize whatever they want from whomever they want without limits-- and even when their detainee has not crossed a border.

The situation that exists today is absurd.

Do we live in a dictatorship or a democracy?

[Jimaz]

This older video by the same attorney might answer some of these questions.

Border Patrol 100 Miles in From the Border?

You know about dealing with border patrol at the border. But anywhere inside MI, FL, ME or a number of other states? Turns out the "border" is 100 miles thick.

[Henry Whalley]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-100-mile-zone

Thanks. I read the article and it still seems like a non-issue to me. Checkpoints are nothing new. You see them in 1930's crime movies. Along with the illegals, I hope they catch some insurrectionists with bombs in their vehicles.

With regard to constitutional rights, the larger threats are from religious zealots who try to enforce their beliefs on everyone, and from proto-fascists who try to muzzle the free press.

[bust]

Let's not change the subject.

Even after our recent experience with our supposed "leader of the free world"
Is such unchecked police power really a "non-issue" to you?

Wait 'til the dictatorship.
Haven't you seen the Trump 2024 posts?
What's to stop them from confiscating DYes data and pinpointing who you are?
Admin lives in MI. And most of us.
Up for the digital deep cavity search?

It could happen, unless laws are changed.
DYes is just one of the many possible routes.
With your data, your families', your friends', your associates'.

It could happen at your next traffic stop,
Your check-out at the big box.
Is that reasonable?

Imagine you "look Arab,"
"Shifty eyes, like a terrorist,"
They "have a feeling."
You were seen at the HP poetry slam.

That's already way more justification than they need to provide.
They need none under current law.

Just like Nazi Germany.
We're not there yet,
But these laws are reminiscent of theirs.
Some may have it.

By the unrestrained power given to Border Control,
By many people's willingness to accept it,
Under the next administration
That's where we could end up.

Such an unrestrained police state is incompatible with democracy.
Can you point to any analogues that did not occur under a dictatorship?

"We're not there yet."
No excuse.
Why allow it in the first place?

Let's improve the law before we can't.

The US has been heralded as a beacon of freedom.
Many still believe it.
Have you come to imagine such violations of our rights are what we deserve?

[Richard]

Customs officials at the border may ask for your cell phone. If you refuse, you may not be allowed to enter. That seems reasonable to me.

At the border not elsewhere, e.g., not 100 miles from the border.

It is also described as ‘at the border or point of entry’ it was the ACLU that brought up the 100 mile radius.

She also wrote this

“Congress is better situated than the judiciary to identify the harms that threaten us at the border,” she wrote.

https://www.1news.info/uae-news/us-a...t-court-891073

But as we well know Congress has been pre-occupied with everything but looking out for the citizens.

I guess it is more fun to run around yelling impeach the MFR then to actually stand up for civil liberties,because we know full well how this will be used and on who.

But then again like people love to say - if you have nothing to hide why worry ?

Unless it comes to sending things in the mail.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin [[1706-1790)


Those who use the argument “they need none under current law” do not know much about terrorism.

A 6 year old kid with a bomb strapped to them does not look like a terrorist,so you have to be ready to shoot every 6 year old kid,and every 6 year old kid is a suspect.

So Yea, a lot of it is based on gut instinct,if they look and act like a terrorist,if they might even be thinking of looking like or acting like a terrorist.

None of them actually have a neon sign on their head that says ,I am a terrorist.

But it is not different then what they have been doing for drug intervention,people smuggling,etc for the last 50 years.

It might be a good idea that if you have any sensitive information on your phone mail it across the border,like any smart terrorist would do.

These searches have nothing to do with stopping terrorism,drug or people smuggling,they ain’t that stupid.

Thank Bill Clinton for that pick.

Her sidekick that was an Obama pick,ruled against a company because they may break a law in the future.

Notice a pattern.

[Honky Tonk]

Your phone and laptop can be searched and copied without a warrant within 100 miles of the Canadian border? Is that true?

Your Phone is Now Fair Game for Border Agents

It's not likely to affect me but that sounds so wrong.

• Border agents can search phones freely under new circuit court ruling

Did you and Thom break up?

[Richard]

LMAO I was wondering the same thing,but then I remembered Trump is no longer president,albeit temporarily, so many will become irrelevant now that the feeding trough has been removed.

[oladub]

It is curious that the definition of border extends to include Lake Michigan as a border.That's sort of a taking. Much of Michigan, Chicago and Wisconsin would not otherwise be included. As it stands, 2/3 of Americans are included in this border zone. The ACLU has an article on Knowing Your rights/100 Mile Border

[Gistok]

It is curious that the definition of border extends to include Lake Michigan as a border.That's sort of a taking. Much of Michigan, Chicago and Wisconsin would not otherwise be included. As it stands, 2/3 of Americans are included in this border zone. The ACLU has an article on Knowing Your rights/100 Mile Border

I agree Oladub... including ANY of the Lake Michigan shoreline in the 100 mile border is a real stretch. Oceanographers consider Lakes Huron and Michigan to be one body of water, which is probably one of their justifications to include it, but it's a pretty lame one.

[Henry Whalley]

[[Sandra Lynch) also wrote this

“Congress is better situated than the judiciary to identify the harms that threaten us at the border,”

But as we well know Congress has been pre-occupied with everything but looking out for the citizens.

Agreed, Congress hasn't touched immigration reform but that may be about to change with the 117th Congress and it will take more than executive orders.

P.S. Don't forget about the pre-occupation with Benghazi.

[Richard]

^ we have not forgotten Benghazi,it will be brought up during Obama’s impeachment hearings along with treasonous acts during war as commander in chief.

Americans were transported by Gadhafi loyalists
The Libyan militia that eventually evacuated Americans from the CIA annex to the airport in Benghazi had not been previously allied with U.S. officials.
In fact, it was a group of former loyalists to deposed leader Moammar Gadhafi, whom Washington had sought to oust months earlier.
“Some of the very individuals the United States had helped remove from power during the Libyan revolution were the only Libyans that came to the assistance of the United States on the night of the Benghazi attack,” the report said.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/285266-seven-key-findings-in-the-benghazi-report

That tells you right there that our enemies came to the rescue after Obama,Biden,Clinton and Susan Rice left them for dead.

So what does Biden do now that he is president ? Puts the same people in policies in place that makes it clear,when it comes to American lives,look to your enemies for support,because you can expect none from the current president based on past history.

He even removed the terrorists that bombed the USS Cole from the watchlist.

The people attacked a United States warship killing US military personal,they are placed on the terrorist watchlist.

So now Biden tells them,hey no problem,they were only US citizens,jump on a plane and feel free to blow shit up on US soil now.

I guess he figures anybody that blows up a US warship is not really a terrorist,they are just expressing their outrage over an unjust system and venting,the 17 dead Americans were just expendable just like the ambassador and contractors in Benghazi.

[Gistok]

^^ Just like Fox News spoon fed you 6+ years of Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi [[all those Republican inquiries never did find any "smoking gun")... it will be Capitol Capitol Capitol Capitol... by the MSM until the end of time...

[Richard]

^ I do not watch Fox News,I could also stretch and say you get your news from Sesame Street,which is the preferred choice of the democrats apparently,I prefer the comedy aspect of the liberal propaganda machine.

I wonder if Trump wins in 2024 how many more times he will be impeached.

Or maybe Ivanka Trump for the first woman president,if you disagree then you are sexist.

[Henry Whalley]

^^ Just like Fox News spoon fed you 6+ years of Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi [[all those Republican inquiries never did find any "smoking gun")... it will be Capitol Capitol Capitol Capitol... by the MSM until the end of time...

Getting back to the Customs and Border Protection issue, is it handled better on the Canadian or Mexican side of the border by their agents?

In some countries [[e.g. China) there are border checkpoints for both those entering and those exiting the country, while in others [[e.g. U.S. and Canada), there are border checkpoints only when entering the country [[Wikipedia), i.e., authoritarian regimes won't let you leave.

According to ProPublica:

"Federal statutes and regulations empower CBP to conduct warrantless searches for people travelling illegally from another country in any “railway car, aircraft, conveyance, or vehicle” within 100 air miles from “any external boundary” of the country...As a result, CBP currently operates 35 checkpoints, where they can stop and question motorists traveling in the U.S. about their immigration status and make “quick observations of what is in plain view” in the vehicle without a warrant, according to the agency. Even at a checkpoint, however, border officials cannot search a vehicle’s contents or its occupants unless they have probable cause of wrongdoing..."

Notwithstanding this is a non-issue, the ACLU usually stands on guard for our rights.

Can Customs and Border Officials Search Your Phone? These Are Your Rights — ProPublica

[Gistok]

Or maybe Ivanka Trump for the first woman president,if you disagree then you are sexist.

Well based on your convoluted logic... since you disagreed about Hillary Clinton being president... that must make you sexist, huh?

[Richard]

Well based on your convoluted logic... since you disagreed about Hillary Clinton being president... that must make you sexist, huh?

There is a difference,your girl Hillary stole millions from disaster relief to Haiti and replaced one despot dictator in Africa with another that went out and committed genocide,her reaction was,well maybe that was not such a good idea.

WASHINGTON [[AP) — Ivanka Trump's global women's development program is about halfway toward its goal of helping 50 million women in developing countries advance economically by 2025.

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics...ay-toward-goal

Notice how one actually takes actions while the other ones ideas about woman’s rights was to make sure they were buried 6 feet under equally.

Thats why I did not support Hillary.

Nice try on turning it around,I was acting like a democrat when I said,if you did not support Ivanka then you were sexist.

Yes,I totally agree with you that is some convoluted logic coming from the left.

But then again in smurfville there are no men or women,or mothers or fathers etc.,unless of course they can say they put the first woman,the first transvestite,the first African American etc. then it okay to call them what they actually are.

I think Webster’s should place a example under the definition of convoluted logic that reads -see democrats for example.

Now that you brought the word of the day,I can use it in a sentence.

The democrat party has spent the last 4 years based on convoluted logic.

Or if one reads the urban dictionary it would probably go like this,

The democrats
have spent the last 4 years coming up with the dumbest crap to throw at the wall.

Heck we could have fun with this.

The democrats,not only once but twice tried to impeach a president and a private citizen based on,ready for it,convoluted logic.

Maybe if they took the giant leap and actually tried using logic,they would not fail so much.

But they failed because they choose to use,ready for it,convoluted logic.

Then there was the whole Russian conspiracy based solely on,ready for it,convoluted logic.

I could actually write a book now and make millions based solely on the,ready for it,the convoluted logic of the democrat party.

Or ,The democrat guide to losing using,ready for it,convoluted logic.

Or the democrats,world addition,How to amuse the rest of the world by using,ready for it,convoluted logic.

ya got any more of those fancy words we can practice with? This is kinda fun

Trumps phone call to Pelosi

Trump - It’s Owen
Pelosi - Owen who?
Trump - 0 n 2

I stole that,but I thought it was funny.

On a side note.

I live under a military flight path,the past week all day long tankers that supply the ME have been coming and going,something I have not seen in over 4 years.

During a segment on MSNBC, host Nicolle Wallace suggested that the United States could use drone strikes against Trump supporters to stop “domestic terrorism.”
https://trendingpolitics.com/unity-m...mp-supporters/

Yesterday 5 long range high altitude drones were flown in.

I have never ever seen those drones used on US soil.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration believes it could technically use military force to kill an American on U.S. soil in an “extraordinary circumstance” but has “no intention of doing so,” U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said in a letter disclosed Tuesday.

Holder’s March 4 letter was disclosed by Sen. Rand Paul [[R-Ky.), who had asked whether the Justice Department believed President Barack Obama had the legal authority to order a targeted strike against an American citizen located within the United States.

The Obama administration, Holder said, rejected the use of military force where “well-established law enforcement authorities in this country provide the best means for incapacitating a terrorist threat.” But in theory, it’d be legal for the president to order such an attack under certain circumstances, Holder said.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_2813857

So by calling and labeling somebody a domestic terrorist,gives the military the authority to use drone strikes on US soil.

[Henry Whalley]

I wonder if Trump wins in 2024 how many more times he will be impeached.

Orange Julius is done for. But back to the topic, I'd like CBP to search your cell phone and laptop for Армия троллей России, Pусские боты, Путиноботы, кремлеботы, Фабрика троллей, Лахтинские тролли, Фермы троллей, etc., roses by any other name.

[Richard]

Orange Julius is done for. But back to the topic, I'd like CBP to search your cell phone and laptop for Армия троллей России, Pусские боты, Путиноботы, кремлеботы, Фабрика троллей, Лахтинские тролли, Фермы троллей, etc., roses by any other name.

Я не говорю по-русски, поэтому у меня не было бы этого на телефоне.

لكنني قد أكون إرهابيا بمجرد وجود هذا على هاتفي

Oder sogar ein Deutscher.

Do not even need a cell phone search at the border,you can bet both of us are now logged into a keyword system somewhere.

That is the irony of it all,they already know what is on your phone before you even get to the border.

It has zero to do with catching terrorists at the border using cell phone data,they just want you to think that so it is justified.

If a terrorist wants to get into the country they can,they do not need a border crossing and they ain’t that stupid to have compromising information on their cell phone period.

If they do it is encrypted,people think these terrorist are like riding camels across the desert carrying 1920s black powder rifles.

They own oil fields and create billions a year in revenue and use technology that is equal and if not rivals what we have.

They are educated as engineers,heck half of them went to some of the best colleges the US has to offer,they use electronic jammers,drones,some of the most advanced missile systems in the world.

And here we are in the United States saying,we gonna get cha at the border with compromising material on your cell phone.

They may catch a few dumb ones but they are not the target,besides the southern border is open,who is going to mess about with entry points,besides it is freezing cold up there,what terrorist in their right mind would want to even cross.

How are they sneaking past Canada controls in the first place? Ever think of that?

Now that Biden has removed the severe vetting process from the Middle East I suspect once again Americans on American soil will once again become targets.

But then again half of the country seems to support being blown up in a night club or planes flying into buildings,so I am sure that part is appreciated when Americans give them that helping hand.

Maybe we could have a national support your local jihadist day,just line up and let them cut our heads off in a show of appreciation.

[Henry Whalley]

...you can bet both of us are now logged into a keyword system somewhere.

I'm not worried about it. Are you operating out of Nur-Sultan or Moscow?

[Richard]

You will never know,I can bounce my IP off of servers across the world,smurfville are the ones supporting the Chinese and Russian cause that is the whole concept and basis of being a progressive socialist commie while speaking about democracy.

No need to split hairs,they are all the same,those at the top end up with all of the power and money while everybody under them becomes servitude to the state.

The government does not have any money to be giving free stuff away,they take yours.

I wish I was in Moscow,have you ever seen the women over there?

They like Americans even more then Americans care or like each other.