What's Up With the Holiday Inn on Telegraph?

**Cincinnati_Kid** · September-09-09, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by AroundTown

This may have very little to do with Southfield's local economy. In case you hadn't noticed, our local economy in general hasn't been gangbusters. If you drive through ANY local suburb, commercial vacancies are at an all-time high. Not to mention, the hospitality sector isn't too hot at the moment, due to a serious decline in business travel.

But then again, perhaps we should just blame it all on race. Yeah, that's it.

Yeah, I agree but ask Crawford about it. He has all the answers. Let him tell it, only Southfield is having problems. Farmington Hills and West Bloomfield has foreclosures up the gazoo,and their share of crime, but only Southfield gets the publicity. I wonder why is that Crawford??

**cmubryan** · September-09-09, 09:59 PM

<H2>Southfield District Classroom Profile

State Tests

Districtwide Reading Proficiency ?64.2%Districtwide Math Proficiency ?62.2%...More test results
Classroom Profile

Enrollment ?9,413Economically Disadvantaged43.4%Breakdown by EthnicityWhite5.2%Black93.4%Hispanic0.3%Asian/Pacific Islander0.9%American Indian/Alaska Native0.1%
</H2>

Farmington District Classroom Profile

State Tests
Districtwide Reading Proficiency ?83.7%Districtwide Math Proficiency ?80.6%...More test results
Classroom Profile

Enrollment ?12,167Economically Disadvantaged13.5%Breakdown by EthnicityWhite67.5%Black19.0%Hispanic1.7%Asian/Pacific Islander11.8%American Indian/Alaska Native0.1%...More classroom details

West Bloomfield District Classroom Profile
State Tests

Districtwide Reading Proficiency ?85.0%Districtwide Math Proficiency ?84.8%...More test results
Classroom Profile

Enrollment ?6,642Economically Disadvantaged10.5%Breakdown by EthnicityWhite65.2%Black20.2%Hispanic1.6%Asian/Pacific Islander10.7%American Indian/Alaska Native0.3%Multi-Racial2.1%...More classroom details

**gazhekwe** · September-09-09, 10:19 PM

Yes, they won't start "going down" till they get over 25%. That's when the wimpy people start saying it and moving. Once it gets to 40%, the floodgates open.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · September-10-09, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Yes, they won't start "going down" till they get over 25%. That's when the wimpy people start saying it and moving. Once it gets to 40%, the floodgates open.

When what gets to 25%?? Can you elaborate??

**Meddle** · September-10-09, 09:59 AM

No need for elaboration. Read the stats posted above to see the reference.

crawford · September-10-09, 10:51 AM

There appears to be no white flight nor economic decline in either Farmington Hills and West Bloomfield, so I am not sure if this is entirely true.

Southfield has particular problems because it's an inner-ring suburb with obsolete commercial space and fairly mediocre housing. Most people don't give a crap of the alleged wonders of mid-century modernism. They see run-down ranches on giant, unkempt lots.

**gazhekwe** · September-10-09, 10:57 AM

There are high end neighborhoods here with very affordable luxury homes on well kept lots. I think you are wielding your brickbat blindly. I happen to live in such a neighborhood, where the housing values have them being snapped up for the most part as fast as they empty out. Your fears = someone else's gain.

**vetalalumni** · September-10-09, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Patrick

Drive through some of Southfield's neighborhoods and you will see some of the best examples of 50s and 60s ranch style homes that would fit in more in LA. Prior to 1970, Southfield was the place to be. It was the first "new" developed suburb for the upper-middle class.

Accurate about fitting in to LA styles. During summer evenings in the 70s we'd leave Rosedale Park and go to Southfield for the really large and loud backyard parties occurring nearly every weekend. We'd go to Palmer Woods and Sherwood Forest for the same reason [[and the pretty girls). Rosedale Park typically would not "condone" such wild parties

The triangle shaped area below was absolutely beautiful. Same can be said for a mile north of there [[north of Mt. Vernon and west of Southfield Road).

**Cincinnati_Kid** · September-10-09, 11:17 AM

This Crawford Clown has some serious issues. Last time I looked, Whites still live in Southfield, and in my Sister's sub I can count at least 8 white families that have been there for years. Sounds like Crawford needs a "Attitude Adjustment" "There's plenty of people out here to give you one".

crawford · September-10-09, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

This Crawford Clown has some serious issues. Last time I looked, Whites still live in Southfield, and in my Sister's sub I can count at least 8 white families that have been there for years. Sounds like Crawford needs a "Attitude Adjustment" "There's plenty of people out here to give you one".

I gave you stats on race. Your personal anecdotes are irrelevent.

As to your threats of an "attitude adjustment", I think that speaks to why people would want to leave an environment with such unneighborly folks.

crawford · September-10-09, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

There are high end neighborhoods here with very affordable luxury homes on well kept lots. I think you are wielding your brickbat blindly. I happen to live in such a neighborhood, where the housing values have them being snapped up for the most part as fast as they empty out. Your fears = someone else's gain.

I think you're right, to an extent. Some of the far western reaches of Southfield have nice ranches on semi-rural land [[west of Telegraph). I don't like mid-century ranches, but for those that do, this is a great choice.

But 90% of Southfield residents are east of Telegraph, and the feel is much more inner suburban than in the western enclave.

**ndavies** · September-10-09, 12:10 PM

What makes all the suburban defenders think that their communities are immune from the issues that have faced Detroit? Urban disinvestment knows no political boundaries. Southfield and other inner ring suburbs are beginning to suffer from exactly the same urban disinvestment that the city of Detroit has faced.

All of the policies that caused the city of Detroit to fail are being continued. Nothing has changed. Wealthy people will continue to look for the newest and bestest housing in the perceived safest neighborhoods they can afford. [[notice I didn't say white. This is no longer a racial issue. This is an issue of economics. Wealthy people can afford to move to places they feel are safer.) This causes them to move out of older neighborhoods into the perceived safeness of recently paved over farm fields. Businesses will continue to move outward as they chase the people with the money. Older homes will continue their progression from original owner to subsequent owners to rentals to eventual demolishment. Companies will leave decrepit old strip malls, crappy post war industrial parks and falling down downtowns for shiny new digs with huge parking lots on the fringes.

The current Michigan economy will only accelerate this problem. As well educated people move out of the state they will cut their asking prices on the homes to unload them. As housing prices fall people will move into houses they couldn't afford a few years ago. Some moving into homes they have no hope of maintaining on their current incomes. Houses that couldn't be sold will be turned in to rentals. Rents will drop with the increase in available rentals. Many rentals will fall into disrepair since the low rents won't cover the maintenance of the building. Those buildings will soon need to be demolished. Without an increase in population we have more buildings than the population can support.

This "progress" will continue until it is economically and socially cheaper to build on inner city reclaimed land than it is to build on freshly turned farm field. The American dream is built on sprawl.

**R8RBOB** · September-10-09, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by ndavies

What makes all the suburban defenders think that their communities are immune from the issues that have faced Detroit? Urban disinvestment knows no political boundaries. Southfield and other inner ring suburbs are beginning to suffer from exactly the same urban disinvestment that the city of Detroit has faced.

All of the policies that caused the city of Detroit to fail are being continued. Nothing has changed. Wealthy people will continue to look for the newest and bestest housing in the perceived safest neighborhoods they can afford. [[notice I didn't say white. This is no longer a racial issue. This is an issue of economics. Wealthy people can afford to move to places they feel are safer.) This causes them to move out of older neighborhoods into the perceived safeness of recently paved over farm fields. Businesses will continue to move outward as they chase the people with the money. Older homes will continue their progression from original owner to subsequent owners to rentals to eventual demolishment. Companies will leave decrepit old strip malls, crappy post war industrial parks and falling down downtowns for shiny new digs with huge parking lots on the fringes.

The current Michigan economy will only accelerate this problem. As well educated people move out of the state they will cut their asking prices on the homes to unload them. As housing prices fall people will move into houses they couldn't afford a few years ago. Some moving into homes they have no hope of maintaining on their current incomes. Houses that couldn't be sold will be turned in to rentals. Rents will drop with the increase in available rentals. Many rentals will fall into disrepair since the low rents won't cover the maintenance of the building. Those buildings will soon need to be demolished. Without an increase in population we have more buildings than the population can support.

This "progress" will continue until it is economically and socially cheaper to build on inner city reclaimed land than it is to build on freshly turned farm field. The American dream is built on sprawl.

Power to truth.....everything you said was 100% correct. It will be always, always, always about the money.

**gazhekwe** · September-10-09, 12:42 PM

I am east of Telegraph and south of I-696 where there are many wonderful and active neighborhoods. Such geographic designations you bring up have always tended to be racial as we continue to fight that insidious racial stigma. I am not such a dreamer that I think Southfield is immune from the ills that plague Detroit and Michigan. I believe we are making a great and successful effort to maintain our viability here.

**vetalalumni** · September-10-09, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

I am east of Telegraph and south of I-696 where there are many wonderful and active neighborhoods.

...

I believe we are making a great and successful effort to maintain our viability here.

Small world. Several relatives reside in that general area near Bell Road.

Used to take my wife-to-be to the Tel-Ex theatre [[dollar shows back then). And sometimes shopped at the grocery store in that same strip mall. There may have been a Baskins Robbins or other type of ice cream shop. And worked in the large multi-story office building across the street [[east side of Telegraph) for a short period. We'd go to that nice restaurant [[just north of the Elias Bros?) for lunch meetings. And there was a Wendy's on northbound Telegraph, south of 10 mile.

**rb336** · September-10-09, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by vetalalumni

We'd go to that nice restaurant [[just north of the Elias Bros?) for lunch meetings. And there was a Wendy's on northbound Telegraph, south of 10 mile.

Meriwether's?

**vetalalumni** · September-10-09, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

Meriwether's?

Yes! Food was fair to good, but the ambiance was the niche.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie...240.42,,0,1.26

**Det_ard** · September-10-09, 03:23 PM

Southfield HS has an average ACT score of 16 which equals the 20% percentile. For the math-phobic, that means 20 out of 100 do worse and 80 out of 100 do better. That's not a good result no matter what.

**xphillipjrx** · September-10-09, 04:32 PM

I went to Southfield Public Schools 1st-12th grades and I am SHS c/o 1987. We moved to Southfield in the mid 70s from Detroit after I went to kindergarten at Country Day. My folks couldn't afford to send both me and my brother to DCDS so we moved to a better public school system. We moved to WB in 1991 when I was in college so that my younger sister could go to WB schools. She is WB c/o 1998.

All these posts [[good and bad) are correct. It's not PC to say such things, but the points mentioned above are exactly why people moved to and from Southfield. A good way to compare Southfield schools of today with years past is to look at where the graduates went to college. I don't know if that's tracked, but there were tons of Southfield kids at UM, MSU, the MAC schools plus Ivy League schools and other heavy places when I graduated. What schools do today's SHS and SLHS grads attend?

BTW, I always thought Southfield [[or at least SHS) jumped the shark in 1988 when the library was set on fire and SHS had to combine with SLHS.

**cmubryan** · September-10-09, 09:36 PM

I remember reading an article about 12 years ago online which I bookmarked however the link is long gone. It was an article on the white flight occuring in the Southfield school district. I remember vaguely the article stating that in 1980 the African American percentage of the district was around 10% then in 1990 it rose to 50% and then by 1997 it was up to over 70%. Those are pretty intense numbers, an average of 3-4% a year.

I know of several peers of mine who attended the district in the 1990s and 2000s and ended up leaving before graduation because they were uncomfortable as they were harassed because of the color of their [[white) skin [[or so they felt).

Like I said previously, we moved out in 1991 as my parents didn't want to send me to public school there for a combination of reasons but mainly because the reputation was declining fast plus our house had been broken into twice.

As for WB [[the next step after Southfield). This is where my parents currently live and where I graduated from high school. At the time I graduated High School [[in 2000) the district was probably 10% African American. I don't like stereotyping any group but I can honestly say that this group was just as active, intelligent and well-mannered as any other race or ethnic group in the school. According to the above statistics the WB district was 20% AA in 2008, so it grew by 1.25% a year, a little slower [[and maybe more healthy) than in Southfield. I just hope that this is a sign that the same white flight/disinvestment won't occur here. I think things are different now than 20 years ago but there is no telling what will happen. History always has a way of repeating itself.

Here is the breakdown of my WB elementary school however in 2008:

State Tests

Schoolwide Reading Proficiency ?83.9%Schoolwide Math Proficiency ?89.0%...More test results
Classroom Profile

Enrollment ?534Economically Disadvantaged12.9%Breakdown by EthnicityWhite48.3%Black38.2%Hispanic2.3%Asian/Pacific Islander9.4%American Indian/Alaska Native0.4%Multi-Racial1.5%

So as you can see, the AA percentage is what some people might label as pretty high but the scores in this school remain strong. I attended this elementary school about 16 years before the year these statistics are from [[2008) and the school was probably no more than 5% AA. So there the AA population did grow about 2% a year showing faster pace than the overall district. This could be because of Schools of Choice or this could be showing that the elementary schools "change" faster as younger families move in.

Just my observations..

**Patrick** · September-10-09, 10:39 PM

Well on older posts with Jabba and other old timers this subject was debated for dozens of posts. Since race was brought into this it seems as if the AA community has followed the Jewish community on the west side. Oak Park>Southfield>West Bloomfield. Speaking of race and its controversies, I wonder how GPN HS will look ten years from now as far as racial makeup is concerned.

**reddog289** · September-11-09, 12:04 AM

As a kid growing up in GardenCity and Detroit, I was always impressed with Southfield. At the time I loved going to Northland and Tel Twelve. Back in the mid 1970,s the family next to us in Garden City moved to Southfield and I remember my Dad saying "He must make good money".
As a teen I recall going to Southfield with the Grandparents to do the grocery shopping and to get pizza and fast food with my Uncles cause it was safer then the neighborhod south of 8mile.
I myself had allways wanted to go to the Holiday Inn on Telegraph but now I think I will pas and as for the rest of the places that I used to go to I will settle for the memories as I have other options closer to home.
ndavies hit it on the nail.What was a ride in the country for me out in Canton is now just a trip past the McMansions till bam I'M in AnnArbor.

**Grundyke** · September-11-09, 01:06 AM

Can anyone point me in the direction of the history of the classic "beer can" round Holiday Inn's? I was intrigued by them as a young child and all this talk of race er' I mean, old Southfield Holiday Inn has got me interested in the design and designer. I have not found anything substantial on the net. I am looking for the architect, how many built and still exist etc. etc. You get the point so any help would be appreciated.

**xphillipjrx** · September-11-09, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Grundyke

Can anyone point me in the direction of the history of the classic "beer can" round Holiday Inn's?

Where are other ones besides the one on Telegraph?

**Grundyke** · September-11-09, 11:56 AM

"Where are other ones besides the one on Telegraph?"

I know there is on in Covington KY just over the Ohio River bridge that is now a Radisson and as a child I traveled a lot with my dad and remember seeing more of them. I believe one is in Austin Texas. There were many though. A lot of people nicknamed them the "beer can".