What's Up With the Holiday Inn on Telegraph?

[crawford]

The Rib Rack -- where the manager or maybe the assistant manager was murdered -- is in Lathrup Village, not Southfield.

Same thing. Exact same thing is happening to Lathrup Village. Same schools, same basic housing stock.

And AFAIK, only one member of City Council -- William Lattimore -- was under investigation. He has resigned.

Only one current member resigned, but two more are under investigation, and the former mayor has been in all sorts of legal trouble.

[crawford]

That is a myth that Southfield has a bad school system. .

No, it's a fact nowadays. Southfield Public Schools are definitely bad.

Southfield schools are ranked 371st in the state. That's terrible, especially considering they are top 5 in per-pupil spending.

And, within Oakland County, only Pontiac and Oak Park are ranked worse.

Source:
http://www.schooldigger.com/go/MI/sc...81/school.aspx

Keep in mind that Southfield public schools were stellar as recently as 20 years ago, when they were compared to places like Birmingham and Bloomfield. Now they are compared to Detroit and Pontiac.

Both high schools were huge feeder schools to elite institutions. No longer.

And I think the lack of diversity is also a factor. Southfield Public Schools used to be among the most diverse in metro Detroit. They are now among the least diverse; even less diverse than Detroit.

The schools are essentially 100% African American, which is not necessarily bad, but it speaks to lack of desirability from basically everyone else.

[East Detroit]

Now everyone's "throwing Southfield under the bus"? Why, because of a dilapidated hotel?? C'mon it's not the slums. Seems to me anytime a communities race majority changes, it's labeled the Next Detroit. Gimme a break.

Nobody mentioned race... except you.

[East Detroit]

The schools are essentially 100% African American, which is not necessarily bad, but it speaks to lack of desirability from basically everyone else.

What does "not necessarily bad" mean?

"Basically everyone else" doesn't like a 100% AA school district?

Essentially... not necessarily... basically....

What are you trying to say?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Did you hear about the woman murdered in Southfield last night? It's in the Free Press.

How about the one two weeks ago?

What about the waitress executed as she left work?

How about half the city council under investigation for corruption?

How about a school system that has gone from a gem to bad in 20 years?

First off, you need to get your facts straight, before you pop off about something. One Council Member [[Latimore) was indicted for corruption involving the sale of a jewelry store/pawn shop in Southfield. The school system is not as good as in the past, but they aren't terrible.As far as the crime, Farmington Hills, Berkley, Bloomfield Twp have all seen a uptick in crime during this recession. I wouldn't go so far as saying Southfield is any worse off than those communities, other than the taxes are high, but the services are great. You pay for what you get. From the tone of other posts of yours, you sure sound racist to me.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

No, it's a fact nowadays. Southfield Public Schools are definitely bad.

Southfield schools are ranked 371st in the state. That's terrible, especially considering they are top 5 in per-pupil spending.

And, within Oakland County, only Pontiac and Oak Park are ranked worse.

Source:
http://www.schooldigger.com/go/MI/sc...81/school.aspx

Keep in mind that Southfield public schools were stellar as recently as 20 years ago, when they were compared to places like Birmingham and Bloomfield. Now they are compared to Detroit and Pontiac.

Both high schools were huge feeder schools to elite institutions. No longer.

And I think the lack of diversity is also a factor. Southfield Public Schools used to be among the most diverse in metro Detroit. They are now among the least diverse; even less diverse than Detroit.

The schools are essentially 100% African American, which is not necessarily bad, but it speaks to lack of desirability from basically everyone else.

So spell it out Crawford, what are you trying to say??? What point are you trying to prove?? " If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck??

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Nobody mentioned race... except you.

And Crawford.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

CinnKid, the word "dilapidated" doesn't apply here.... if you want to use that word, I can think of many other hotels/motels in the area.

From what I heard via the design project manager, the two main partners involved keep butting heads and accusing each other of ripping the other off [[not to mention, the whole no electricity thing might be cramping their style and affecting business). I will see if I can dig up any other dirt.

Prior to the renovation, it was getting wore down, maybe dilapadated was too harsh. I concur.

[softailrider]

I forgot to mention, that hotel was to become part of the Wyndham chain. The owner who is local, got a loan from Wyndham Resorts to renovate the place. If he actually spent it all on renovations is iffy in my mind anyway. It's a shame, that hotel used to be a class place.

[cmubryan]

cmubryan-you seem to be a bit of a resident expert on the area. i have been wondering about a building that appears to be a former hotel. it's a large tower, roughly 20 stories that lies right across the street from the entrance to the OCC campus. do you have any background on this building?

from some angles, it has a very "soviet block" look to it, especially the side with the long faded red elevator tower. looks like it's been abandoned for decades.

it amazes me that OCC is willing to sink millions into an expansion of their southfield campus when the neighborhood is full of vacancies and this rotting hulk lies right axcross the street...

Zimm, the building you are talking about started life as the Shiawassee Hotel in the mid-1970s. Shortly thereafeter it became the Sheraton Southfield Hotel. Then a few years down the road after that [[maybe early to mid 1980s), Sheraton took over its competitor, the Michigan Inn on JL Hudson Drive adjacent to Northland. At that time, the hotel became affiliated with the Days Inn brand only at that time it was named the "Days Hotel and Convention Center" which is pretty much just a higher-end Days Inn. It spent the rest of the 1980s and early 1990s with that affiliation. Then sometime in the 1990s [[maybe early-mid 90s) it became the Ramada Southfield Convention Center Hotel and really started to decline. It spent probably a good 10-15 years with this brand and had a number of incidents happen. Most recently after losing its Ramada franchise rights [[maybe some time in 2006 or 2007) it was known at just the Southfield Hotel and Convention Center for a very short time and closed probably towards the end of 2007. I remember sometime around February 2008 it was being auctioned off but don't know what happened with that.

Here's a link to postcard of the hotel with its original name: http://www.playle.com/listing.php?i=RHEAV2026

[gazhekwe]

Crawford The schools are essentially 100% African American, which is not necessarily bad, but it speaks to lack of desirability from basically everyone else.

That is the only problem, not the black students, the white families. As soon as the school population passes some tipping point, 40% black is the usual one, the white parents start saying they have to move because "the schols are going down." Then the white flight starts, the realtors start parroting this to home seekers and then everyone starts reporting that the schools are terrible. That is not the case.

[REL]

I am having a hard time understanding how this conversation spiraled into a racist discussion. We are talking about a hotel. It happens to be in Southfield. Neither of the partners we were talking about are even African American. So check yourselves and stay on topic.

[crawford]

What does "not necessarily bad" mean?

"Basically everyone else" doesn't like a 100% AA school district?

Essentially... not necessarily... basically....

What are you trying to say?

I thought I said it quite clearly.

Southfield is ONLY desirable to African Americans. No one else wants to live there. Only 13% of the U.S. population would even consider residence. The other 87% are virtually nonexistent in the schools.

And, if you have been following demographic trends in the last five years, you would know that middle-class Southfied African Americans have been fleeing Southfield in droves.

The % of African Americans in West Bloomfield schools has nearly tripled in about five years. Farmington Hills is similar.

If you ask a teacher in these districts, these students are coming from Southfield Public Schools, and they left because those schools are going down the tubes.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I am having a hard time understanding how this conversation spiraled into a racist discussion. We are talking about a hotel. It happens to be in Southfield. Neither of the partners we were talking about are even African American. So check yourselves and stay on topic.

You don't need to go any further than Crawford, to find out why this discussion got off course. Ask him.

[crawford]

Crawford The schools are essentially 100% African American, which is not necessarily bad, but it speaks to lack of desirability from basically everyone else.

That is the only problem, not the black students, the white families. As soon as the school population passes some tipping point, 40% black is the usual one, the white parents start saying they have to move because "the schols are going down." Then the white flight starts, the realtors start parroting this to home seekers and then everyone starts reporting that the schools are terrible. That is not the case.

I would agree. Obviously, if we are to have true integration, whites have to be more willing to attend schools with blacks.

The blacks who initially moved into Southfield were solidly middle-class and education-oriented, and there was no reason to flee. Unfortunately almost all did.

I do think one thing that might have hastened the flight was the demographics of the Southfield white population.

Southfield was heavily Jewish and very upwardly mobile. The housing stock was [[and is) fairly modest and nondescript. Residents generally had the means to move to more upscale parts of Oakland County, but stayed in Southfield, because they wanted to stay close to synagogoues, schools, family, etc.

Once the community started to rapidly change, there was added incentive to move to West Bloomfield.

I think the racial change in Southfield will differ from what is currently happening in places like Warren and Hazel Park. In these places, the whites are working class and usually do not have the option to move to a "better" place.

As these neighborhoods change, the whites will leave more slowly than in Southfield, because choices are more limited.

[crawford]

.As far as the crime, Farmington Hills, Berkley, Bloomfield Twp have all seen a uptick in crime during this recession. I wouldn't go so far as saying Southfield is any worse off than those communities, other than the taxes are high, but the services are great. You pay for what you get.

Yeah, sure...Bloomfield and Southfield are the exact same in desirability. No difference whatsover.

And if you "get what you pay for", why do Detroiters pay some of the highest taxes in the state and get crap services?

Why do Southfield residents pay the highest school taxes in Oakland County and get the third worst schools in the county?

.
From the tone of other posts of yours, you sure sound racist to me.

Yes, and don't forget all those blacks fleeing Southfield for West Bloomfield, Farmington Hills, Beverly Hills, Bingham Farms, etc.

They are obviously all racists too!

Don't they know Southfield is as good as Bloomfield? 8 Mile is the same as Lone Pine Road?

[gazhekwe]

It really does go to the whites seeing a pending imbalance, starting to look for excuses. "The schools are going down" is very scary and tends to affect everyone in the school district, white or black, once it gets into the atmosphere. Black realtors have steered black clients to the west side of Inkster [[Farmington Hills) because of this. [[Also because they get a bigger commission for a more expensive house as a consequence, no doubt.) It doesn't SOUND racist. But its inception is because of fear of racial imbalance, not because factually the schools doing worse on tests. That does end up happening because parents want the best for their children and steer clear of the schools that are reported to be "going down." In Southfield, the schools work very well, and every year, Southfield wins awards for different approaches. The pervasive "bad schools routine" is a hard thing to fight. And it continues to steer whites and middle income blacks away.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

From now on, everyone direct their questions to Crawford. He seems to be the expert on demographics in the Detroit area. Next thing when Farmington Hills becomes a black majority, he'll move on to bash it. After blacks move in, everything goes to sh-t according to Crawford. Good job Crawford.

[REL]

C'mon, really. This thread has NOTHING TO DO WITH DEMOGRAPHICS OR RACE.

This is a discussion about a hotel. Crawford, your comments are way off-topic, not to mention unwelcome. Feel free to start your own thread about the demographic shift in Southfield.

[DetroitPlanner]

Running down Southfield will get us nowhere. We are all part of the same economic body. Does your chest hate its arm? No. It makes no sense. We cannot solve the problems of the region simply by pointing fingers at each other. It makes us no better than the people we complain about who use divide and conquer to obtain power.

Fact is demographics change. Big deal. You are ignoring the fact that we have a lot more open hotels than closed ones. And with several new large hotels opening in this market and under those conditions, that is showing remarkable resilience. I am sure that a contributing factor to the closing or decline of this property is economic activity in Southfield, that has nothing to do with race or school scores. The fact is economic activity is moving to the fringes or to downtown. Southfield is getting pulled like a rubberband and is losing at both ends, any trip to Tel-Twelve Mall, Northland, or to an office tower in the area can tell you that.

This building is probably about 40 years old. It should be of no surprise that it has seen its demographics change over time. The big question is, what can be put in there to make the site viable again? Can we save the structure and repurposes it? Seniors need housing.

[crawford]

C'mon, really. This thread has NOTHING TO DO WITH DEMOGRAPHICS OR RACE.

This is a discussion about a hotel. Crawford, your comments are way off-topic, not to mention unwelcome. Feel free to start your own thread about the demographic shift in Southfield.

I was talking about Southfield's urban decline, and others brought up race, to which I responded, but only in context to the topic.

And no, one cannot separate Southfield's economic condition from the status of this hotel.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I was talking about Southfield's urban decline, and others brought up race, to which I responded, but only in context to the topic.

And no, one cannot separate Southfield's economic condition from the status of this hotel.

Again, where's the decline?? The schools are in decline, so the whole city is?? You make no sense, just bashing Southfield because you feel like it. Still some great neighborhoods and homes there, good services, Police presence You sound like a basher just for the sake of. I always was taught if you can't say something good about something or somebody, don't say nothing at all.

[milesdriven]

While we're on the topic of hotels, what's going on this weekend that I can't find a decent room downtown? Omni, Marriot, Hilton Garden Inn, Greektown, Motor City, MGM Grand are all booked solid for saturday night.

[Patrick]

Drive through some of Southfield's neighborhoods and you will see some of the best examples of 50s and 60s ranch style homes that would fit in more in LA. Prior to 1970, Southfield was the place to be. It was the first "new" developed suburb for the upper-middle class. I always had a love for the commercial architecture ala Kessler/Yamasaki styles in Southfield. From a cosmetic standpoint, it will be a while before Southfield falls.

[REL]

This may have very little to do with Southfield's local economy. In case you hadn't noticed, our local economy in general hasn't been gangbusters. If you drive through ANY local suburb, commercial vacancies are at an all-time high. Not to mention, the hospitality sector isn't too hot at the moment, due to a serious decline in business travel.

But then again, perhaps we should just blame it all on race. Yeah, that's it.