Chief Craig and Detroit police response to Detroit Will Breathe

[intelligentBeing]

Article: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ss/5624097002/

"I am not going to let any group set up a Seattle zone of lawlessness here in the city of Detroit," Craig said. "That is non-negotiable."

I love Chief Craig's no nonsense approach, strong leadership. The article is worth a read.

My opinion is that Detroit Will Breathe is not doing anything productive at this point and only creating problems where they don't exist [[do they represent the ppl of Detroit?). https://detroitwillbreathe.info/ their demands are down the page a little bit.

Detroit needs to get to work > job creation > fill these office towers going up > get busy. Who's the next Henry Ford or Dan Gilbert?? There is plenty of room for everyone.

[Honky Tonk]

DPD Officers are some of the most tolerant Officers I've had the pleasure of, uh, "meeting". Kudos to Chief Craig and the DPD for handling the situation. You were given 8 chances to peacefully disperse and leave. You chose to hold your ground and obstruct traffic. Enough is enough already. Quit your whining.

[ct_alum]

Read the Freep article that quoted a Deputy Chief Todd Bettison. Is that the same guy who was driving drunk [[and carrying his gun) and smashed up his take-home car a few years ago? IIRC he was an Inspector or maybe a Commander at the time.

[Zacha341]

I think the best KUDO's is for Detroiter's who discern heat from light in all of this! Smartly, we know that not all police are murderers and racists, yet we are not denying clear police misconduct and neglect as it happens [[George Floyd case, others).

We're not all [[despite what the some of the protestors say) demanding disbanding our police departments! We know criminal behaviors and activities don't take a vacation when you do that.

Craig? Yes, he has his baggage and must be held accountable for any police misconduct that harms, kills or allows corruption in his department. We are watching.

DPD Officers are some of the most tolerant Officers I've had the pleasure of, uh, "meeting". Kudos to Chief Craig and the DPD for handling the situation. You were given 8 chances to peacefully disperse and leave. You chose to hold your ground and obstruct traffic. Enough is enough already. Quit your whining.

[Chicago48]

I'm in Chicago and I think all the mayors and chiefs are getting tough. They see Portland & Seattle as a blue print. I'm near Kenosha and they're tearing up and looting downtown Kenosha, a really nice quiet little city. Doesn't deserve it.
Jacob Blake, shot by a cop 7 times....excessive yes. But a) Blake had outstanding warrants he's probably going to be arrested for the warrants; b) he resisted arrest; c) he ran to his car with his kids in it and reached inside. How's a cop supposed to know what he's reaching for?
So they're tearing up Kenosha. All of this lies on the taxpayers to clean up, not the looters and rioters. You can't get empathy for your cause by tearing up.
In Chicago, they're trying the last nerve of the mayor. The Central Bus. District is threatening to leave and close down. Most of those arrested were out of state and town. Not a stakeholder in the city.

[JonWylie]

I'm in Chicago and I think all the mayors and chiefs are getting tough. They see Portland & Seattle as a blue print. I'm near Kenosha and they're tearing up and looting downtown Kenosha, a really nice quiet little city. Doesn't deserve it.
Jacob Blake, shot by a cop 7 times....excessive yes. But a) Blake had outstanding warrants he's probably going to be arrested for the warrants; b) he resisted arrest; c) he ran to his car with his kids in it and reached inside. How's a cop supposed to know what he's reaching for?
So they're tearing up Kenosha. All of this lies on the taxpayers to clean up, not the looters and rioters. You can't get empathy for your cause by tearing up.
In Chicago, they're trying the last nerve of the mayor. The Central Bus. District is threatening to leave and close down. Most of those arrested were out of state and town. Not a stakeholder in the city.

I feel like we really shouldn't accept police being incompetent enough to allow a person who they wanted to arrest to casually walk back to his car. Plus, there was no indication that he had a weapon or was going for a weapon. I'm sure that thought was in the police's head, but there was no reason it should have gotten to this point in the first place if the police were upholding a higher level of training and tactics. The fact that we have people in this country who choose to break the law will never change, however, we can ask for more accountability and better ability from our police. This could have been avoided by the people who are trained to do so and it wasn't.

Another issue that isn't talked about enough is you have one group of people in the country who believe that everyone should be armed, which sure, it's in the constitution and that's your right. But then that same group turn around and think police should be able to use deadly force against people who they think are armed, which is almost anyone. We're putting police and our citizens in a terrible place if we create this situation where any routine police encounter can turn deadly because of the fear that everyone is armed.

Of course destruction of property is wrong, but it's not like these types of instances are popping out of nowhere. They are all being triggered by events that happen like the one in Kenosha and solving those problems will better serve to solve these problems of destruction.

[Wesley Mouch]

...snip...
Jacob Blake, shot by a cop 7 times....excessive yes. But a) Blake had outstanding warrants he's probably going to be arrested for the warrants; b) he resisted arrest; c) he ran to his car with his kids in it and reached inside. How's a cop supposed to know what he's reaching for?
...snip...

Every time someone questions the actions of an arresting PO, I would hope they'd put their daughter, son, or spouse in the role of the officer. Do they risk their life by waiting to see if the suspect turns around with a handgun that takes their life?

Its very easy to second guess these videos. Its a lot harder to risk your life and limb.

[[Nothing contained in the post should be interpreted to be support of cops not following good procedures to protect citizens.)

[DeLemur]

Yes, being a Police Officer is a very difficult job. Had Blake a gun inside, then well its justified. But he didn't. You can't just make up that he might have a gun as justification. That would mean they could kill just about anyone.

A struggling, black man who is resisting arrest is seen as someone worthy of shooting. Its sick, and frankly I think its because they see black people as more dangerous than white people and more worthy of being killed.

Every time someone questions the actions of an arresting PO, I would hope they'd put their daughter, son, or spouse in the role of the officer. Do they risk their life by waiting to see if the suspect turns around with a handgun that takes their life?

Its very easy to second guess these videos. Its a lot harder to risk your life and limb.

[[Nothing contained in the post should be interpreted to be support of cops not following good procedures to protect citizens.)

[DeLemur]

But I don't want to get off the local topic.
I do agree that some of the protesting is vague and not directly tied to DPD killings. Despite DPD clearly mistreating people on Saturday.
BUT! Does anyone know how much the Board of Police Commissioners have done in reform? Have they increased the transparency of disciplines within the force and problem officers? That's where DPD needs to change.

[1953]

Just want to say that I appreciate Chief Craig and think DPD has done a great job dealing with the protests.

[Danny]

Antifa wants to conquer Detroit just like conquer Seattle and Portland just show our leaders in this nation that our government that is funded by corporations must be destroyed or face sudden Civil War.

BLM, QANON and ANTIFA has all in common. REFORM GOVERNMENT by violent means.

[Zacha341]

^^^ It's not going to get down exactly like that in Detroit, especially the SJW, ANTIFA crowd. Nope, I don't think so.

Our demographics and culture are different then say Seattle. More than a few black people are tired of having our causes and issues USED by those plying their own agenda for our sakes. It's just more 'handling'.

The few Detroiter's working are not going to allow a pile of bussed-in kids block the road keeping them from getting to work!

Not to say there may not be violence and protest but it would be different.

[Honky Tonk]

^^^ It's not going to get down exactly like that in Detroit, especially the SJW, ANTIFA crowd. Nope, I don't think so.

Our demographics and culture are different then say Seattle. More than a few black people are tired of having our causes and issues USED by those plying their own agenda for our sakes. It's just more 'handling'.

The few Detroiter's working are not going to allow a pile of bussed-in kids block the road keeping them from getting to work!

Not to say there may not be violence and protest but it would be different.

I agree with you. Someone other then the original BLM seems to have gotten a swelled head and have their own agenda here.

[Wesley Mouch]

Yes, being a Police Officer is a very difficult job. Had Blake a gun inside, then well its justified. But he didn't. You can't just make up that he might have a gun as justification. That would mean they could kill just about anyone.

How could the officers know whether he had a gun? Do they have to wait to see the gun swinging towards them?

I think you set an unreasonably high standard for cops.

You try to arrest someone. They fight. They head to their car.

Imagine for a moment there was a gun. Your wife gets a visit at 2am with bad news.

How are you supposed to know whether there's a gun on the seat of that car? Cops don't have super powers. They're just mortals.

If there's a gun, their lives are at very high risk.

If not, well, that's too bad. But they 'gave peace a chance' first. And the suspect chose 'fight'.

A struggling, black man who is resisting arrest is seen as someone worthy of shooting. Its sick, and frankly I think its because they see black people as more dangerous than white people and more worthy of being killed.

Blacks and whites are both killed by cops when they resist. Cops of both races do the shooting. Remember that we only see the cases that fit the BLM narrative. You can be upset that this chap was killed, but it was more likely because he resisted arrest and behaved dangerously than because he was Black.

[jcole]

I don't see how grabbing a man by his shirt and firing 7 shots into his back with a service revolver is justified in any way, shape or form.

Rusten Sheskey, who has been employed by the Kenosha police department for seven years, was named as the officer caught on video firing seven times into Blake’s back at almost point-blank range as he held him by his shirt.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...rusten-sheskey

[JonWylie]

How could the officers know whether he had a gun? Do they have to wait to see the gun swinging towards them?

I think you set an unreasonably high standard for cops.

You try to arrest someone. They fight. They head to their car.

Imagine for a moment there was a gun. Your wife gets a visit at 2am with bad news.

How are you supposed to know whether there's a gun on the seat of that car? Cops don't have super powers. They're just mortals.

If there's a gun, their lives are at very high risk.

If not, well, that's too bad. But they 'gave peace a chance' first. And the suspect chose 'fight'.


Blacks and whites are both killed by cops when they resist. Cops of both races do the shooting. Remember that we only see the cases that fit the BLM narrative. You can be upset that this chap was killed, but it was more likely because he resisted arrest and behaved dangerously than because he was Black.

But it's everyone's right in this country to carry a gun, so when is it ok to have a gun and when is it not? We've seen people get shot for maybe having a gun and plenty of people completely ignored when openly wielding a gun. We've seen police negotiate with gunman for hours and then police put multiple shots into someone for maybe having a weapon.

[Wheels]

Detroit will breath could ironically choke the last breath out of Detroit if not dealt with properly. Thank goodness for Chief Craig and the level headed system of justice he brings!

[lpg]

I went through a F.A.T.S. Simulator course. To those on the sidelines to second guess what the police should do, try to do it on a simulator. You will find out how fast things can go wrong and the time you have to react. When the episode is over they add a clock on the screen and what you think takes minutes is actually over in seconds. Lawyers and juries have days and weeks to decide who is right. Police on the scene don't.

[JonWylie]

I went through a F.A.T.S. Simulator course. To those on the sidelines to second guess what the police should do, try to do it on a simulator. You will find out how fast things can go wrong and the time you have to react. When the episode is over they add a clock on the screen and what you think takes minutes is actually over in seconds. Lawyers and juries have days and weeks to decide who is right. Police on the scene don't.

Maybe if it's that difficult we should require 7 years of education like lawyers go through.

[Wesley Mouch]

But it's everyone's right in this country to carry a gun, so when is it ok to have a gun and when is it not? We've seen people get shot for maybe having a gun and plenty of people completely ignored when openly wielding a gun. We've seen police negotiate with gunman for hours and then police put multiple shots into someone for maybe having a weapon.

There is an easy solution here. Its already the law. So easy.

When you are arrested, follow the orders of the peace officers precisely. Do not resist. Do not do anything threatening. Don't reach inside anything.

If you disagree with your detention, tell the judge in court, or tell your attorney, or tell the ACLU.

Is that not the easiest solution? So easy.

[JonWylie]

There is an easy solution here. Its already the law. So easy.

When you are arrested, follow the orders of the peace officers precisely. Do not resist. Do not do anything threatening. Don't reach inside anything.

If you disagree with your detention, tell the judge in court, or tell your attorney, or tell the ACLU.

Is that not the easiest solution? So easy.

I mean you've seen the videos where people try to comply the best they can and still end up getting shot. Police are too trigger happy and I don't necessarily blame them because they have to have the assumption that everyone has a gun. There's a strong correlation between gun ownership and shooting deaths, so that's just the way it's going to be if we have this gun mentality.

I think people should do the best they can to stay alive in every situation, but I've never been harassed by police to any high level so I don't know what it's like. I think police should be held to a higher standard but I've never been in their shoes either.

I think if you're saying that if you simply comply with police, you'll always be fine, you don't understand what a lot of people go through when it comes to interactions with police, not to mention the issues that come with even being charged with a crime, going to jail, not being able to afford bail, potentially losing your job, and then pleading to something you may not be guilty of just so you can get out and get back on with your life.

[Zacha341]

^ Yes! There are videos out there of folks 'complying' with police and still getting abused and in some cases shot. I affirm that, yet I feel most police are doing a needed service. I am not for disbanding policing.

[JonWylie]

^ Yes! There are videos out there of folks 'complying' with police and still getting abused and in some cases shot. I affirm that, yet I feel most police are doing a needed service. I am not for disbanding policing.

Yeah no sane person is for disbanding any type of police, but we have to look to other countries and cultures and see what they are doing that's different. If that means changing the way the police function, then lets do it. If that means changing gun laws, then we have to look at that too. It also likely means looking at high crime areas and seeing what's different compared to low crime areas, which will likely lead to us seeing a difference in school quality, poverty, health, and a multitude of other things.

The easy thing to do would be to say we need more police because people in certain areas are bad, but it's a lot harder to try to solve the issues that cause some areas to be hot beds for crime and look at the way those areas are policed compared to others.

[Jimaz]

....The easy thing to do would be....

I'm afraid your good efforts are wasted here, JonWylie.

The easiest solution is to believe that ignorance of one's ignorance confirms one's intelligence, which is obviously a false conclusion. So why is that belief so prevalent? I think it's not as prevalent as it seems.

It's tempting to invoke Dunning Kruger here but I've come to a simpler explanation.

Appearing to be ignorant is simply an effective strategy to keep an audience engaged so they keep wasting their time. It's a strategy used in attrition warfare.

[JonWylie]

Appearing to be ignorant is simply an effective strategy to keep an audience engaged so they keep wasting their time. It's a strategy used in attrition warfare.

Luckily I got all day