Deteriorating Postal Service

**Jimaz** · August-10-20, 08:38 AM

This topic has been popping up more frequently lately, not just here but on other online forums, radio, etc. It appears to be a nationwide phenomenon. It's unprecedented, as far as I can remember. I thought it might be worthy of its own thread so all the comments can be tracked in one place.

I don't rely on snailmail much but I do recall an incident from at least a year ago where I received an envelope from Florida that was postmarked 24 days earlier. That's a good indication that the problems aren't due solely to COVID19 fallout.

Gary Peters is supposed to make an announcement on this subject later today.

Any other anecdotes? Articles?

**Meddle** · August-10-20, 08:44 AM

In a nutshell, one of Donny's Minions is deliberately slowing service in an effort to thwart mail in voting.

Or so the theories go.

**Zacha341** · August-10-20, 08:46 AM

^^^ I rely more on snail-mail as I order more things from eBay, Amazon etc. than before the COVID. For sure the mails are slower. I've had eBay sellers quickly refund me moneys from things stuck in the mails for weeks, and then I receive the items later or not at all. No eBay seller wants to see their 'feedback' go south so some just take the loss.

On the other hand I've a friend working at the back-end of the the USPS [[not mail delivery) and she lost two coworkers to the COVID and was on quarantined herself. She reports it's been very difficult with all hands on board and beyond for most. Yet others calling off work.

**jcole** · August-10-20, 08:47 AM

^^^I believe it. I use the Informed Delivery service and I can watch packages as they progress through the system. I had one that sat at the vendor for 14 days after the label was created, then took a week to get here from Tennessee. Right now, I've been waiting for a package from Farmington Hills that was mailed a week ago.
This has been going on for months, but in the last 3 weeks it has become nearly untenable.
Also,things that are listed as "Arriving Today" or "delivered" not being actually delivered for a couple more days.

**Zacha341** · August-10-20, 08:55 AM

^^^ Yep. I have one thing tracked as delivered, never seen. And I've been home watching.

I just said forget it over standing in a long-slow postal line.

**Jimaz** · August-10-20, 09:25 AM

Sen. Schumer: Trump has wanted to hurt Post Office for a long time

Sen. Schumer, D-NY, addresses how Congress can help with election security and to help boost the Post Office and what he thinks is motivating Trump's recent actions with the USPS.

**Bigdd** · August-10-20, 10:06 AM

^ Well,. we have to take anything Schumer says with a swimming pool full of salt.

Yes, the president is for privatizing the post office,.. but not because he has a personal bone to pick with them. Rather it's that they cannot get their costs under control, and with the rise in electronic documents [[Docusign), and electronic checking before that, and fax machines before that, .... the post office has lost half it's business.

In 2001 there were 103 million pieces of first class mail being sent through the post office. Last year it was 55 million.

Yet legacy costs remain, huge and mostly empty post offices remain, and that along with public sector union contracts combine to cause the PO to hemorrhage money. Something needs to be done.

So what are our choices?

We could double the cost of a stamp to 90c or a buck. Of course that means far less people will be sending mail.

How about massive bailouts? [[which Trump's opponents will attack him for)

Or let it fail [[which Trump's opponents will attack him for)

Or privatize it [[which Trump's opponents will attack him for)

The privatizing it thing is probably the best choice. I like the PO and use it constantly. I still do business with checks. I even have post office boxes and buy stamps by the roll. But most of the younger generations don;t operate that way, and the PO is going to be one of the things that goes away.

**Maof** · August-10-20, 10:25 AM

Been a shit show for months. Cutting overtime, getting rid of the top two executives who handle daily operations, early retirements...Louis DeJoy was newly appointed in May......https://www.npr.org/2020/05/07/85197...gop-fundraiser

"DeJoy has contributed more than $1.2 million to the Trump Victory Fund, and millions more to Republican Party organizations and candidates, according to Federal Election Commission records. He was also in charge of fundraising for the Republican National Convention."

**Honky Tonk** · August-10-20, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

Sen. Schumer: Trump has wanted to hurt Post Office for a long time

I call election propaganda B/S.

**Honky Tonk** · August-10-20, 11:03 AM

Years ago, the USPS was floundering just like they are now. UPS was kicking their booty. I can't remember who was in charge, but they shored-up their delivery service and I almost use USPS exclusively for package delivery. Some arrive a few days later than usual, because of the pandemic situation, but not a big deal. Mail is another issue altogether. I have a monthly payment I have to make. I sent the check as usual, and didn't receive a check cashed notification 6 days after it was due. I called the company and they never received it. Luckily they were in MI, and I drove another check out. The company called 26 days later that the original check arrived. "do you want us to send it back?" "Oh hell no, apply it to next month's payment!" Things have changed as far as the original postal concept. Payments can be made online, people shop online, packages are delivered. I don't know what the answer is, but the USPS needs to reinvent itself and stay relevant. We can't keep using tax dollars to prop up a 250 year old business model. [[IMHO) I see neighbors mailboxes stuffed with magazines that I know will end up in a landfill.

**aj3647** · August-10-20, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

In a nutshell, one of Donny's Minions is deliberately slowing service in an effort to thwart mail in voting.

Or so the theories go.

Louis DeJoy has TREMENDOUS financial conflicts of interest and stands to make millions by privatizing and outsourcing core USPS business functions to companies he has a stake in. This is full-on Washington Swamp corruption, but of course the Usual Suspects here defend it, as they are programmed to do.

Ironically what goes completely ignored by these very same people is the demographic that would be most hurt by privatizing the Post Office: Rural America [[i.e. Trump's base). The Postal Service takes a huge financial loss by operating first-class mail service in remote, sparsely-populated areas, which they are required to do by law and cannot charge more just because it costs more to pickup and deliver first-class mail out in the Boonies.

In the event the Postal Service goes belly-up, does anyone here actually think that UPS and FedEx are going to deliver your stimulus check to you in the middle of BFE for cost of a first class stamp? Nope. But it's "cut off your nose to spite your face" with this crowd.

**Jimaz** · August-10-20, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Louis DeJoy has TREMENDOUS financial conflicts of interest and ....

He also has zero experience in the post office — something highly unusual for that position.

**Honky Tonk** · August-10-20, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

But it's "cut off your nose to spite your face" with this crowd.

And it's political B/S and name calling with the rest of the crowd. They don't have internet, online banking, or direct deposit in BFE? It's less expensive teaching Cletus to use the internet and debit card than it is to keep spending billions because "but we've always done it that way..."

**Jimaz** · August-10-20, 11:49 AM

Is the Trump Post Office Slowdown Political Sabotage, or Just Regular Business-Guy “Disruption”?

The mail isn’t coming on time. From Maryland to Wisconsin to Montana, residents and proprietors of businesses are complaining to elected officials and the press that it now takes multiple weeks for items to be delivered. The reason this is happening isn’t a secret, either: In mid-July, postmaster general Louis DeJoy reduced the amount of overtime hours that postal employees are allowed to work and ordered them to stop making extra trips to distribution centers to retrieve mail that was processed after scheduled pickup times. Less work = slower mail delivery.

Given that this slowdown coincided with Donald Trump’s campaign to convince the country that mail-in voting [[by Democrats) is fraudulent, it’s natural to suspect that DeJoy, a major Trump donor, has been ordered to sabotage the mail system on purpose in order to make it more difficult to cast and tabulate mail ballots. [[DeJoy was appointed by the USPS Board of Governors, but the members of that board are appointed by the president.)...

**Honky Tonk** · August-10-20, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

Is the Trump Post Office Slowdown Political Sabotage, or Just Regular Business-Guy “Disruption”?

Aw jeez, not another "expert"... Pelosi propped up the USPS with a $75 mil infusion, did they blow through that already?

**jackie5275** · August-10-20, 03:19 PM

You have to remember in 2006 Congress passed a law that required USPS to fully prefund their pension plan for 75 years to the tune of $110 billion. That hit them hard fiscally. I don't think they've financially totally recovered from that. Mail delivery in my neighborhood is hit or miss. Some days no mail, other days 2-3 deliveries. I've come to accept it & hope it improves as the coronavirus battle improves. However, I will say I've had better delivery results with USPS than FedEx, especially the Oak Park office, and DHL. I haven't had much activity with UPS. Most of my online orders come through the others I mentioned.

**Jimaz** · August-10-20, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by jackie5275

You have to remember in 2006 Congress passed a law that required USPS to fully prefund their pension plan for 75 years to the tune of $110 billion. That hit them hard fiscally. I don't think they've financially totally recovered from that....

Thanks for mentioning that. It's suspiciously under-reported. I'm still not sure why.

**oladub** · August-10-20, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by jackie5275

You have to remember in 2006 Congress passed a law that required USPS to fully prefund their pension plan for 75 years to the tune of $110 billion. That hit them hard fiscally. I don't think they've financially totally recovered from that. Mail delivery in my neighborhood is hit or miss. Some days no mail, other days 2-3 deliveries. I've come to accept it & hope it improves as the coronavirus battle improves. However, I will say I've had better delivery results with USPS than FedEx, especially the Oak Park office, and DHL. I haven't had much activity with UPS. Most of my online orders come through the others I mentioned.

"In 2006, Congress passed a law to require the USPS to prefund 75 years worth of retiree health benefits in the span of ten years—a cost of approximately $110 billion. Although the money is intended to be set aside for future Post Office retirees, the funds are instead being diverted to help pay down the national debt."

That would break almost any corporation. It happened during the Bush administration. Bush also looted postal employee retirement coffers claiming that too much money had been set aside. He ignored that the money came out of postal worker paychecks and was deducted specifically for their pensions. The federal government's accounting office realized that too much money had been looted so some but not all was reimbursed and was paid for with higher postal rates. The federal government kept what it looted.

Earlier, President Clinton had borrowed money from the Social Security Fund and together with Newt Gingerich greatly reduced, "recalculated", the Social Security benefits of most postal workers. Both were done to help balance the budget.

President Obama did not overtly damage postal workers or the Postal Service to my knowledge. However, for all his talk about infrastructure, he did not seem to improve postal infrastructure or reverse the damage done by Bush's advance seizure of $110B from the Postal Service or restore postal workers' Social Security benefits. The Postal Service continued its slide and became shabbier under Obama [[and Biden) even though it is the largest employers of black Americans in the Country.

Trump is making things worse.

**aj3647** · August-10-20, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

"In 2006, Congress passed a law to require the USPS to prefund 75 years worth of retiree health benefits in the span of ten years—a cost of approximately $110 billion. Although the money is intended to be set aside for future Post Office retirees, the funds are instead being diverted to help pay down the national debt."

That would break almost any corporation. It happened during the Bush administration. Bush also looted postal employee retirement coffers claiming that too much money had been set aside. He ignored that the money came out of postal worker paychecks and was deducted specifically for their pensions. The federal government's accounting office realized that too much money had been looted so some but not all was reimbursed and was paid for with higher postal rates. The federal government kept what it looted.

Earlier, President Clinton had borrowed money from the Social Security Fund and together with Newt Gingerich greatly reduced, "recalculated", the Social Security benefits of most postal workers. Both were done to help balance the budget.

President Obama did not overtly damage postal workers or the Postal Service to my knowledge. However, for all his talk about infrastructure, he did not seem to improve postal infrastructure or reverse the damage done by Bush's advance seizure of $110B from the Postal Service or restore postal workers' Social Security benefits. The Postal Service continued its slide and became shabbier under Obama [[and Biden) even though it is the largest employers of black Americans in the Country.

Trump is making things worse.

Are you a USPS employee by chance?

**Gistok** · August-11-20, 01:49 AM

Don't postal workers have a pension plan that private sector workers would envy? I'm not sure... I just remember that 3 employees at my local post office all retired, and they had to be well under 62 years of age.

I do all of my bill paying via phone/e-checks or automatic online payment. Back in April my computer was dying on me [[turned out to be a Russian hacker that got into my Email system and tried getting elsewhere, passwords since changed), so I bought a computer online and UPS delivered it a day early [[I gave the driver a $10 tip as a thank you to the service workers).

But getting back to the mail service... yeah it has gotten slow... except for those damn VAL-PAK coupons always seem to arrive on time.

P.S. That Russian hacker tried to get into my other systems, Facebook, Twitter, etc... but when he asked for a password reset... it gets Emailed to me, and I have always been too lazy to allow them past my Spam Folder, and fortunately I didn't get social media or other online pages hacked, cuz the Russian never thought of looking there.

**oladub** · August-11-20, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Are you a USPS employee by chance?

Nope but I wanted to lay out that Trump wasn't the first recent President to drag down the Post Office. Rural Republican lawmakers have often sided with urban and black lawmakers in preserving the present postal employment system. The corporatist wings of both parties have not been as enthused. UPS lobbies heavily against the USPS. Once, UPS sued the USPS for delivering parcels too cheaply. The Constitution doesn't even require that postal service employees be government employees. Some of its truckers are not. Stamps are sometimes sold in stores. However, the existence of the national Post Office is something delegated to the federal government. I see the Postal Service as part of the national infrastructure something like having roads. Alternatively, we could make highways all private toll roads just like we can bust unions and have lowest bid corporate contractors deliver mail.

**Bigdd** · August-11-20, 09:35 AM

I am not for subsidizing failing government organizations usually,.. but in this case I am.

I think they need a little bit of union busting,.. but I'm OK with another raise in stamp prices,.. or perhaps better yet, just a funding system to help them out.

Better than average pension system seems fair. They DO deliver rain or shine. Some days it's a walk in the park,...others they're out there when it's brutally hot or icy. And with one exception that happened a month ago because of Covid,.. I have ALWAYS gotten my mail on time.

And I like having the same mail-carrier for a decade at a crack. It makes for great consistent service, and the better than average pensions helps with that.

I pay my bills with checks, I have PO boxes, I mail packages and buy stamps by the roll at the post office.

A big mitigating factor for me is that they DO deliver absolutely anywhere. They even deliver by float-plane, by mule [[to this day) and by boat. [[There's a mail boat with it's own zip code that operates in the Detroit River to deliver mail to the freighters).

It also keeps the nation together. And a lot of official mail goes through it. You are considered to have legally received notice of various things if mailed to you. Ballots for the infirm, and on and on.

So it's about more than just us in the big city getting stuff.

**Meddle** · August-11-20, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bigdd

A big mitigating factor for me is that they DO deliver absolutely anywhere. They even deliver by float-plane, by mule [[to this day) and by boat. [[There's a mail boat with it's own zip code that operates in the Detroit River to deliver mail to the freighters).

Not true.

There are a lot of places that do not get home delivery. Some places it may just be cluster boxes for a 100 or so households [[often housing developments or gated communities), but there are quite a few rural areas where people have to travel miles to a Post Office to get mail.

Curious ... how would we feel if the US Government were required/mandated to use ONLY the US Mail [[legally prohibited from using private couriers)? Exceptions would be allowed for larger packages the USPS can't handle and special items requiring secured courier services.

**jcole** · August-11-20, 12:39 PM

I lived about 40 miles north of Detroit from 1973-2012 and in every single one of those years I had to go to the Post Office daily if I wanted my mail. They refused to do mail delivery in the town of Almont. They would deliver in the township and all the rural areas, but not inside the town. Oh, other than the 2 new subdivisions.

Originally Posted by Meddle

Not true.

There are a lot of places that do not get home delivery. Some places it may just be cluster boxes for a 100 or so households [[often housing developments or gated communities), but there are quite a few rural areas where people have to travel miles to a Post Office to get mail.

Curious ... how would we feel if the US Government were required/mandated to use ONLY the US Mail [[legally prohibited from using private couriers)? Exceptions would be allowed for larger packages the USPS can't handle and special items requiring secured courier services.