Welcome to the Reality of DEFUNDING Policing...

[Zacha341]

So first off there's an assumption that everyone the firm side of condemning and calling out police misconduct and brutality agrees with across-the-board police defunding, full out. NOT TRUE. If someone took an actual poll... well that would not be expedient to the staid narrative. Would it?

I for one think that the local police departments still have a job and community service to perform, to say the least. Unless for some reason I didn't get the memo that heaven had arrived and all actual criminal activity has ceased. It has not. Actually crime is up in not a few areas of the country.

To the contrary [[setting aside the question of military-level equipment expenditures which is a huge variable depending on the city) if any thing we need more specific funding for example that does a better job of vetting, and training LEO's in the appropriate use of force and apprehension. And monitoring their actions [[with tangible consequences along the officers work history) on the job, by way of stricter controls an stronger actions for misconduct.

I find much of the 'defund' and ditch the police talk to be just that. The elite left-leaning politicians [[desiring to be on the right side of the politic) will always advance that which that BELIEVE wont impact them. They have their exempted, secure, private, gated communities, for now.

How nice for the teaming masses, left to ourselves.........

Is NYC [[where it can be said the elite rich and the general pops are side by side in certain respects depending on address) at large, really, REALLY going to defund, end policing to the satisfaction of those protesting?

Then again maybe they are just that far gone at the behest of being PC and not wanting to appear racist [[eh, Trump behaving, so it goes):

Protesters camp outside City Hall in NYC demanding that Mayor de Blasio slash $1BN from the NYPD budget despite gun crime surge!

After 28 Shootings In 72 Hours, De Blasio Says ‘We Are Not Going To Allow Gun Violence To Continue To Grow’

Seattle, Chicago, Minneapolis, and New York report uptick in shootings

[aj3647]

Protesters camp outside City Hall in NYC demanding that Mayor de Blasio slash $1BN from the NYPD budget despite gun crime surge!

After 28 Shootings In 72 Hours, De Blasio Says ‘We Are Not Going To Allow Gun Violence To Continue To Grow’

Seattle, Chicago, Minneapolis, and New York report uptick in shootings

NYPD annual budget is $11 BILLION. Chillax. We as a society have erred for decades by allowing the police to become the default solution for ALL social ills and problems and then just throwing more money at them to "deal with" all the people that we as a society have deemed inconvenient and expendable: the mentally ill, the homeless, drug and alcohol abusers, etc.

Here's something you can do, take a look at the model of policing in every other wealthy developed country on earth and then compare it to the United States. How do they compare?

Also, yes, shootings go up in the summertime. Always have.

[Zacha341]

^^^ How do they? Shall we start with the UK? Remember, my only fight in this is to find a solution not absolution for bad policing. I've made that clear. Perhaps Richard would think differently [[where's he been btw - ok I hope?)

Anyway, I'd like to see any money's finally get thru to ACTUAL services for the mentally ill, homeless etc. instead of being syphoned off by some crony bureaucracy. I'll hold off on fully quantifying this summers shootings just yet. Chicago's already over their yearly annual - I've family there who report it to be a war zone and they're not Trump-sters or white if that helps you!

I'm hearing more gun fire than before, and closer - amid the fireworks!.

[Jimaz]

It seems like a lot of folks today want to be soft on crime — but only when the criminal wears a badge, you know, that license to kill.

[Meddle]

Here's something you can do, take a look at the model of policing in every other wealthy developed country on earth and then compare it to the United States. How do they compare?

^^^ How do they? Shall we start with the UK?

It's much harder for a citizen to get a gun outside the US.

[Canadian Visitor]

Lets Start with some figures shall we. Here's police spend per capita in a few major us cities:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmc.../#6af19d756163

[Canadian Visitor]

Now lets look at numbers from other OECD countries:

Toronto: $381CAD per capita [[2018). That's $278 USD per capita

For Canada as a whole, $414CAD which is $303USD per capita

[Canadian Visitor]

Lets have a quick look at officers per capita [[per 100,000 population)

New York 414
Baltimore 476
Detroit 335

Toronto 190
Vancouver 197
Montreal 230

[Canadian Visitor]

That provides some basis for discussion.

By U.S. Standards, Detroit isn't heavily policed; but its officers per capita are 76% higher than Toronto's.

[Canadian Visitor]

Lets consider the secondary impacts of policing, the number of prisoners.

[Canadian Visitor]

Lets assume that we consider all police, criminal court and prison costs in the aggregate [[total)

The expense in the U.S. is in the range of 180B

Lets not be utopian and suggest US policing/prison costs could drop even to the next highest number in a short few years.

But what if they could drop to 2x the UK number? Surely that should be achievable.

That would still be a 2/3 drop on the prison side of things.

While surely police costs could drop 25%.

If you took the numbers in total, I think you could aim for a 40% reduced spend realistically over 7 years.

That would amount to over $70B US at a national level.

If the excess spending on the military and spies were similarly reigned in........

There would be hundreds of billions that could re-allocated. [[every year)

Maybe enough to pay for Universal Health Care.......or at least to drop the medicare age to 55 and expand Medicaid to its full extent in every state and to increase its income threshold by another 5k.

[Zacha341]

Well at least we're moving beyond the emotional boiler-plate 'F%ck the police!' canard demanding that the US have cities sans any form of policing. To believe that... well it's not even a short-term solution.

It's only a matter of what form and funding of policing [[and associated incarceration). Beyond pretending as the politicians are that they're on the side of the extreme protestors to do away with police all together as their very own crime stats climb [[beyond forced smiles to showcase that they're not racists in the face of recent police misconduct extremes).

[Bigdd]

The left is getting a bit of what they've been demanding [[more anarchy and dead people [[most of which end up being minorities)).

Shootings are way up in Chicago [[63 shot just last weekend, with 16 of those dead), and shootings more than doubled last month in New York.

Sickening. When will the Left learn.

[Zacha341]

When they no longer have Trump as a counter point of justification. Perhaps.

So long as he remains president the ends justify the means [[and resultant outcomes). After all, what could be worse goes the argument!

When will the Left learn?

[Bigdd]

When they no longer have Trump as a counter point of justification. Perhaps.

So long as he remains president the ends justify the means [[and resultant outcomes). After all, what could be worse goes the argument!

Sadly you my be right.

Part of it may just the pent up frustration, depression and boredom from the Covid lock-downs. I wonder if all this might have been milder [[perhaps even contained to just that section of Minneapolis) if we hadn't just spent months pent up in our homes with too much time on our hands.

Idle hands being the Devil's playground and all that.

[Meddle]

Perhaps when Wayne LaPierre is no longer running the U.S. .....

Still can't figure out why he hasn't been arrested for stealing from his donor's piggy bank.

[Honky Tonk]

Perhaps when Wayne LaPierre is no longer running the U.S. .....

Still can't figure out why he hasn't been arrested for stealing from his donor's piggy bank.

Simple. It would show the organization is flawed and would add fuel to the fire for the opposing side.

[Zacha341]

I guess NY is just throwing up their hands. OK! Course they have to know the feds will eventually have to get this 'together'... after the great speeches and progressive promises...

Bill de Blasio caves to absurd ‘defund the police’ movement...

https://nypost.com/2020/06/30/de-bla...ement-goodwin/

From article:

The latest evidence comes with his agreement to cut police spending by about 17 percent, including the cancellation of a new class of rookies. With retirements soaring, that guarantees fewer cops on the street just as murder and mayhem are turning much of the city into the Wild West.

At first, he tried to dance around the far-left pressure to defund cops but after he was booed and heckled off the stage at a June 4 .memorial for .George Floyd in Brooklyn, he instantly embraced the national madness.

Within days, de Blasio was throwing the mob a bone, saying that while he didn’t agree with calls for $1 billion in cuts to the NYPD’s nearly $6 billion in spending, he would propose “something substantial.”

[jcole]

I'm pretty sure he can fine SOMETHING to cut out of that $6 billion budget...

[Bigdd]

but after he was booed and heckled off the stage at a June 4 .memorial for .George Floyd in Brooklyn, he instantly embraced the national madness.

I'd be curious to see a national poll of how many people actually agree with these mobs.

Is it just 1-2% [[the insolent children, college indoctrinated Marxists and dope-dealing, murdering thugs?),.. or is there actually a large swath of law-abiding Americans demanding less policing?

I gotta think these people's parents, grandmas etc all want law and order. Go to any city-council meeting in a big city and the citizens are crying for more policing.

For every 1 person that dies unjustly at the hands of police,... there's 998 more that die at the hands of thugs in the hood.

Are these protesters and these rioters REALLY wanting thousands more dead? Or have they just not thought this through?

Ideally we'd figure out a way to save that one,... but not at the cost of turning that 998 dead number into 3000 dead.

More police therefore means LESS dead children of these parents and grandmas. Less drop in their home values, less destruction of businesses,.. which means more employment opportunity, which in turn means less violence,... and on and on.



Now NY prop value is going to plummet, especially commercial. They have a huge deficit from Covid,.. and now their tax base is going to take a beating. Unemployment will be higher than it would have been, etc. This is going to cripple their budget. A $1 Bill cut to police may have happened anyway. As will cuts to schools, roadworks, etc, etc, etc.

[Honky Tonk]

Elderly woman choked and robbed by thief in New York City


https://www.yahoo.com/news/elderly-w...150739514.html

[Ray1936]

Sure hope you guys on the far left don't want to defund my pension. Sigh.

[aj3647]

Elderly woman choked and robbed by thief in New York City


https://www.yahoo.com/news/elderly-w...150739514.html

And? Is robbery unique to New York, or to this period in time? I'm genuinely curious what the point is of your cherry-picked example.

The bodies of two dead children were discovered buried on a property in rural Rexburg, Idaho. Their mother, Lori Vallow, and her husband Chad Daybell are suspected of their murder. Both are members of an apocalyptic Christian death cult and have been linked to numerous suspicious deaths over the preceding years.

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/cr...7-85f62da8d3b9

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths...w#Chad_Daybell

[Zacha341]

Sigh... let the spitting contest begin... ...

I suppose I'll add to it:

There's enough crime on so many levels, for so many reasons that a fast internet search can cull a myriad of incidences or varied criminal admixtures and tinctures to suits ones agenda; or provide specific reasoning.

Having said that: Crime, specifically in the cities is on the uptick. No doubt.

Beyond the summer increase already. I had a family member robbed this weekend, personally. Gun fire has increased in my area.

No need to google search that.

Chicago? OMG... just not even going there.

[Zacha341]

I'm afraid so. It needs a bit re-distributing - it's all great until the distributing heads down-hill.

It's a thirsty guillotine always seeking more. Hah.

Sure hope you guys on the far left don't want to defund my pension. Sigh.